Art is dead? Long live AI

Roxor
Artist -

I think almost everyone will love it and will stop working entirely since AI can just do everything. In several decades, will anyone even imagine actually working and having a job anymore?
Jobs are for robots. People do projects.
The boring and routine tasks you assign to mindless machines, leaving the interesting ones for yourself.
Programmers frequently write code to avoid writing other code themselves. If your program needs a lookup table in its source code, especially if it’s longer than a dozen or so entries, you hack together some code to either generate the table (if its contents is just some mathematical function that’s slow to calculate at run-time), or convert it from some other source into a form that’s valid code for a pre-filled array in your language of choice. You do not sit there typing in numbers one by one for hundreds of entries.
For a more artistic example, take 3D graphics. You don’t shade every pixel yourself. You specify the scene using higher-level concepts such as models, materials, and lights, then let the computer do the drudge work of turning it into an image.
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Ironically, if you want to save humanity from AI, you have to destroy humanity first.
Or at least you know, stop teaching people about computer science or something.
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My take on this is that I don’t think art is dead with the appearance of AI because art is imagined and then created by human imagination. AI can try to replicate that imagination, but by definition, AI can’t create art.
I’m not as negative as some people are on this, but while I don’t agree with the use of AI to create art, I think it’s gonna be a trend that won’t last too long.
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Background Pony #A36B
@Starless
uploads under the following tags:
Machine learning generated:
last 30 days: 523
preceding 30 days: 790
screencap:
Last 30 days: 2862
preceding 30 days: 2,710
Yeah, I’m not worried about this robot apocalypse sweeping the internet.
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Doughnuts Worshipper
@Background Pony #A36B
It’s already sweeping Deviantart… I was saying the same thing a few weeks ago, but it now seems like the only things currently holding the flood are the need for a bit of computer-savviness for installing Stable Diffusion, the fact that good prompts aren’t very easy to find, and this annoying limitation to low-res pictures.
Compared to useless toys such as Dall.e, Stable Diffusion can produce decent enough results for getting people’s attention ; people like seeing pretty things, and then they get excited for the next pretty thing.
Starting to get nice pictures from SD may trigger some kind of addiction ; you get nice surprises each time you press the Generate button, except there’s always some imperfections, so you’re never really satisfied, and then you press and press and press Generate like a lab rat. May be why some people manage to upload hundred of pictures , even with the low yield rate of what’s produced by IA.
Pressing the button can be free, btw. Online services gives better results, but SD can be installed locally. Machine learning generation is here, and it’s probably not going away…
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Background Pony #5393
it now seems like the only things currently holding the flood are the need for a bit of computer-savviness for installing Stable Diffusion, the fact that good prompts aren’t very easy to find, and this annoying limitation to low-res pictures.
All the more reason for all the sites that host images to both remove artwork generated via these programs and forbid future uploads as well.
It’s probably too late to stop this thing entirely, but eliminating one of the potential incentives (i.e., sharing AI created content with other people) might at least slow it down a bit.
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Background Pony #C48E
@Background Pony #5393
Art sites like Derpibooru or deviantArt are the places where it matters less, though. People in art communities will be more inclined to be creative - and humans can be creative with any tool. It’s for content like “news” articles, click farming sites, clip art/article headers…places that won’t have any rules because they already don’t care at all.
Then, on art sites, do you want people to try submitting AI-generated images even though they’re banned and then have people arguing over “is this AI/is this not AI” (people have already been accusing handmade images of being AI-generated) or do you want people to feel comfortable voluntarily labeling their AI creations as AI-made?
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I think eventually all the art communities are going to accept AI art and when that happens, there won’t even be an option to hide AI art anymore (well, maybe here it’ll still be filterable but not on DeviantArt or anywhere else). Decades from now the tools all of us use to create art, including graphics tablets, paper and pencils, paint, and software like Krita and Photoshop won’t even exist or if it still exists, it’ll be very difficult to find.
Every time technology advances, they just have to completely take away the old and force us to use the new against our will. Maybe one day all of us will be living in the Matrix or some virtual reality where you can generate art just by thinking about it. AI will do everything for us. Future generations yet to be born might not even imagine actually working for a living and having a full-time job.
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All the more reason for all the sites that host images to both remove artwork generated via these programs and forbid future uploads as well.
It’s probably too late to stop this thing entirely, but eliminating one of the potential incentives (i.e., sharing AI created content with other people) might at least slow it down a bit.
And what is benefit of this slowing-down? Let’s be honest with ourselves, there is no way to hide from AI arts, nor to destroy AI unless you destroy our civilization completely. Even if art-dedicated sites will ban using AI in any form general purpose social media will never do so. We all need to adapt.
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And what is benefit of this slowing-down? Let’s be honest with ourselves, there is no way to hide from AI arts, nor to destroy AI unless you destroy our civilization completely. Even if art-dedicated sites will ban using AI in any form general purpose social media will never do so. We all need to adapt.
This sounds very defeatist. If general purpose social media ends up becoming nothing but AI-generated content, which it will because nobody’s going to bother creating content themselves anymore, I’m just going to get off all social media–oh wait. I don’t even use social media.
But then again, will anyone be able to tell in the future whether something is AI-generated or not? Because if not, then Derpibooru, DeviantArt, and all other art-dedicated sites are fucked.
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This sounds very defeatist.
So, are you going bring this topic into politics and accept bill to forbid AI arts or.. how else you could “win” in this situation?
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Starless
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@Modera
If everyone adapts to AI-generated content, drawing and painting yourself will cease to exist because everyone relied on AI for everything. All of us became so dependent on the internet and phones in a short time and forcing everyone else to rely on it for everything imaginable. If the internet were to permanently shut down today (it won’t), the world will descend into chaos because the old ways either don’t exist anymore or will be killed off.
When everything becomes AI-generated, they are going to try to force us to support and use AI art tools. Maybe we could just go back to drawing on paper and pencil, except they might just stop making that since we have programs like Photoshop and Krita to replace paper and pencil, and what happens when art programs like those two are no longer maintained (I doubt Krita will ever stop being maintained and if it does someone can always fork it and continue development since it’s open source)?
AI, internet, phones, social media–it’s all like a zombie apocalypse. Those who get infected become stupider and will stop at nothing to infect us, bringing us down with them.
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Senior Moderator
友情は魔法だ

This brain dump is not endorsed by this site. It is not reflective of official policy (which has been clearly stated several times) and is not an endorsement or condemnation of AI. I’m just chatting because some of the stuff said here makes me very curious.

If everyone adapts to AI-generated content, drawing and painting yourself will cease to exist
I am sure this is going to sound snarky, but I’m sincere.
Do you feel that everyone has abandoned traditional media for digital art, like Adobe’s products, Clip Studio Paint, Corel Painter, ProCreate, ArtRage, SAI, Inkscape, Vecteezy … all the other drawing tools?
All of the artists I ever talk to have adapted to digital art. Most have digital versions of their work available on line, like on Amazon. I am pretty sure all of us have more than one graphics tablet and drawing program on our computers that we use at least once a day. Sometimes all day. Sometimes all night, too.
But we all also have our favorite kind of paint, our favorite paint producer, our favorite canvas sources, our favorite pencils and pens.
Mine is the Mitusbishi Hi-Uni 2B. Peal the wood back and the exposed drawing-part is like a little paint brush. It’s incredible.
Mitsubishi still makes traditional art supplies. They make a lot of money doing so, and there’s no sign that they’ll ever stop.
Hell, people are still inventing some of the most amazing quill nibs that you’ve ever seen in your life.
When photographs became possible, some feared traditional art would die.
When movies appeared, some feared books would fade from existence.
When the internet appeared, some feared the coming of the singularity.
But we all have the ability, often within reach, to sketch something. And we all have books. And brains that are not wired to each other.
This is kind of the same thing. People who write copy are terrified that their jobs will be gone. And, to be fair, some probably will. For myself, I sometimes have to write copy for something, and I do use ChatGPT to help me. It’s like holding a drawing up to a mirror. Sometimes when you see it from someone else’s perspective, it helps. Even if that someone else is an AI.
And drawing programs like Photoshop and Krita have existed since the early nineties. But we still have drawing pads and pencils specifically for line art.
It’s been a quarter of a century that digital drawing has been a think, but traditional media and artists are not gone, nor are the tools and materials for them. If anything there are MORE traditional media and tools available today than ever before, in some ways because of the internet.
Like the Takahashi G-Pen dip pen nib.
Gaze upon it and fall to your knees! Be overwhelmed with AWE!
Those little cuts on the sides of the nib? The hold ALL THE INK IN THE WORLD! You can ink an entire FACE with one of those from a single dip!
Personally, I don’t see traditional media going away at all for any reason other than humans are completely wiped out. In fact, I see traditional media becoming more fun, more of an art, less of a 12 hour a day grind to create images for advertisements.
It’s kind of like what Jay Leno says about horses.
The car didn’t kill the horse, it saved them. Hundreds of them a day that were dying on over crowded streets or in overstuffed stables in big cities. The car made the horse a valued luxury item. It made horses precious.
Ebooks is doing the same for Books.
And the more people get into the AI stuff, the more I’ve seen them slowly begin drawing for themselves.
Because the AI stuff right now is limited and self-tainting. Getting an image that matches what is in your head is … well, kind of a game of chasing pixels and negotiating with the AI as to whether what you wanted was what you wanted, or what the computer wanted to give you. And with in-drawing and all the stuff that goes on trying to create a perfect image, people who do it are becoming better at getting what they want from digital tools.
And that includes Photoshop. It didn’t result in a world with no paper or pens.
So … I’m curious.
What is it that you see that is frightening you so much? What do you see happening around you that tells you that traditional art is dying and doomed?
If the internet were to permanently shut down today (it won’t) the world will descend into chaos …
Funny albeit off-topic story. I accidentally turned off the internet for Minnesota one afternoon. I was trying to fix a routing issue for almost a half hour, and someone asked; “Hey, is the internet down for anyone else?” HA HA Whoopsie!
Minnesota survived. The only chaos was me explaining to my boss the whoopsie and my co-workers giving me shit about it for … well, to this very day.
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Starless
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Prog rock pony
Do you feel that everyone has abandoned traditional media for digital art, like Adobe’s products, Clip Studio Paint, Corel Painter, ProCreate, ArtRage, SAI, Inkscape, Vecteezy … all the other drawing tools?
All of the artists I ever talk to have adapted to digital art. Most have digital versions of their work available on line, like on Amazon. I am pretty sure all of us have more than one graphics tablet and drawing program on our computers that we use at least once a day. Sometimes all day. Sometimes all night, too.
But we all also have our favorite kind of paint, our favorite paint producer, our favorite canvas sources, our favorite pencils and pens.
The problem with adapting to something new is that one day it will completely replace the old which won’t be an option anymore. Just look at what Discord, a closed source privacy nightmare, did to IRC, an open protocol where anyone could make their own network (I know IRC isn’t completely dead yet, Canternet still exists). I still collect CDs because I like owning physical copies of albums I like and don’t need an internet connection to listen to them, but I feel like that isn’t going to be an option in the future.
I myself have obviously adapted to digital art, though I had completely given up drawing until I joined this site. I’m glad actual paint, canvases, pencils, and paper still exists, and I might be overreacting, but it always feels like digital art has completely replaced that.
What is it that you see that is frightening you so much? What do you see happening around you that tells you that traditional art is dying and doomed?
Not just traditional art, but everything that isn’t digital and AI-generated. I am appalled by the fact that it’s become impossible to go anywhere or do anything without having a smartphone pocket computer + digital ID with me at all times, and by the fact that I can’t watch movies or listen to music if the internet is down or very slow when I was able to do that just fine without the internet before streaming became a thing.
As for AI-generated art, typing in a few words on a prompt is far more convenient then spending days drawing something, and just about everyone puts convenience above all else. Nobody is going to learn to draw anymore because the AI can do it all for them. Nobody is going to learn to play a musical instrument anymore because AI will soon be able to create music for them. Does anyone even learn how to write anymore? I haven’t written anything by hand in years. About Discord, it’s far more convenient to create a Discord server than an IRC network and to create a Discord account than to install an IRC client and join a network, but that is the only advantage Discord has over IRC (and to be honest, there are better messaging protocols than IRC).
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Ciaran
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Senior Moderator
友情は魔法だ
@Starless
I still use IRC. It’s the 1954 solution to “Talk To Others”. I think a lot of sysadmins do, too - which is very much the kind of thing that I think it is best at.
I mean, yes - alt.sex is gone. But now we internet, and nearly any search will instantly find what used to be a 20 minute download.
Nobody is going to learn to play a musical instrument anymore because AI will soon be able to create music for them.
One of my clients is a music store. They have what I guess basically amounts to “AI” here for sale. Like the Digitech Trio+ Band creator pedal with looping.
Plug your guitar into it, play for a little bit, and it will add a bass line and drums to back you up.
Those kinds of “Now you have a backing band” pedals have been around for maybe a little more than a decade.
Sometimes, you’ll see an artist by themselves using loopers and synths like these to create amazing music.
But it’s not a band. And people still play bass. And drummers still exist (assuming they haven’t exploded yet).
Even though there’s ROLAND synths that can generate an entire band on demand doesn’t mean that bands are going to go away. People still play music.
Even if someone creates a synth that can perfectly recreate the music of Yo-Yo Ma, there will be Yo-Yo Mas in our future.
Maybe it’s because I’ve been through a few “THIS IS THE END OF THE WORLD” scenarios, but I don’t see how this AI is different than anything else that has come along in the last 100K years.
2LDR: People still camp in the woods and enjoy sitting around a fire late into the night. But now we get to enjoy it instead of it being the only way.
About Discord, it’s far more convenient to create a Discord server than an IRC network and to create a Discord account than to install an IRC client and join a network
In all sincerity, I think that’s a FEATURE of IRC.
The thing that for me is what SHOULD be the discussion is not “should AI exist”, but:

How do we detect and prevent UNETHICAL uses of AI?

AI by itself is just a thing. It’s how people use it that really matters.
For example, how will we detect someone using AI to recreate something an artist has behind a paywall?
It shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that we have been dealing with that as long as I’ve been helping on the site. Just looking back through the logs, it’s something that seems to have been a problem here as long as the site has existed.
In the past, the recreation was made by a person. Now, people have done it with AI.
But - and for me this is the critical thing - that it was done with AI is a red herring. It doesn’t matter HOW it was done.
Unethical behavior is unethical. It doesn’t matter what tools the unethical behavior depends on. If it is unethical, it’s unethical.
Whether it is being done with AI or by hand, we need to be able to detect it and respond to it.
Admittedly, with AI it seems that it’s possible for people with no hope of creating an artwork to replicate something behind a paywall, like a naked version of a censored publicly released image.
But, that just makes the set of people capable of possible unethical behavior larger.
It doesn’t really change how we should respond to it.
I agree that the capitalist pressures that make things like AI attractive to corporations are shit. But I also do not imagine a day when I would stop drawing completely just because I could describe to a machine what I wanted drawn. Just like I don’t buy a synth that can generate tracks for me - it’s great those exist, but it’s not what I choose to do.
I play music because playing music is wonderful and fills me with joy. Same thing for drawing. Same thing for camping in the woods.
I mean … I get wanting to stop playing music. Or wanting to stop drawing. And people are very welcome to stop drawing if they want.
But they shouldn’t use AI as an excuse to stop drawing.
If people want to stop drawing they should stop because they don’t want to draw, not because “AI made them stop”.
And if someone thinks I should stop drawing because AI exists and can draw circles around my own art, they take my Huion stylus from my cold, dead hands.
Wow, this ended up being another wall of text, didn’t it?
Starless
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Artist -
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Prog rock pony
About Discord, it’s far more convenient to create a Discord server than an IRC network and to create a Discord account than to install an IRC client and join a network
In all sincerity, I think that’s a FEATURE of IRC.
I agree. I can use whatever client I like and if I get banned from one network, I can always chat in another.
The thing that for me is what SHOULD be the discussion is not “should AI exist”, but:

How do we detect and prevent UNETHICAL uses of AI?

AI by itself is just a thing. It’s how people use it that really matters.
For example, how will we detect someone using AI to recreate something an artist has behind a paywall?
It shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that we have been dealing with that as long as I’ve been helping on the site. Just looking back through the logs, it’s something that seems to have been a problem here as long as the site has existed.
In the past, the recreation was made by a person. Now, people have done it with AI.
But - and for me this is the critical thing - that it was done with AI is a red herring. It doesn’t matter HOW it was done.
Unethical behavior is unethical. It doesn’t matter what tools the unethical behavior depends on. If it is unethical, it’s unethical.
Whether it is being done with AI or by hand, we need to be able to detect it and respond to it.
I think eventually there will be some way to detect whether art is AI generated. I do however think it will become increasingly difficult to do so as AI continues to evolve. Right now it’s still possible to tell the difference between art created by AI and art created by humans, but eventually it won’t be. Worst-case scenario all images that aren’t screencaps or otherwise from offical media could be tagged “Machine Learning Generated” by default and in order to remove the tag, the artist would have to send a video timelapse of them drawing to prove they drew it themselves, but this would be very inconvenient for artists and mods alike and maybe someone could have AI make a fake timelapse to make it look like it wasn’t AI-generated. I don’t have much else to say about this for now.
I play music because playing music is wonderful and fills me with joy. Same thing for drawing. Same thing for camping in the woods.
I mean … I get wanting to stop playing music. Or wanting to stop drawing. And people are very welcome to stop drawing if they want.
But they shouldn’t use AI as an excuse to stop drawing.
If people want to stop drawing they should stop because they don’t want to draw, not because “AI made them stop”.
I used to play multiple instruments when I was young but that’s another thing I’ve given up on. I didn’t play a lot but when I did, I had fun though I wasn’t good at it, and I eventually lost interest and was never truly interested enough to get better.
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Background Pony #5393
When photographs became possible, some feared traditional art would die.
This really isn’t an apt comparison to the current situation though. Creating digital art programs and cameras may have offered new tools to assist people in their creative process, or new ways of capturing the world, but it didn’t change the most fundamental part of how art has been produced for the entirety of human history, i.e., that the intelligence guiding what these tools produced was still our own. I could spend thousands on a top of the line camera, but it isn’t about to go out and shoot the pictures itself. No word processing software I could own is going to crank up trillions of digital monkeys and hammer out potential novels until it hits the next Pulitzer Prize winner. But AI programs change that most important aspect of the process, and not to our betterment in any way.
AI by itself is just a thing. It’s how people use it that really matters.
And if we have to rely on the greater part of humanity to do the right thing, we may as well save some time and just set our civilization on fire now.
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