Gun Discussion
NitroFury 
Nitro Cat Bad!
So I made this as a placeholder for my other fiction weapons companies, that will be used for RPs and stories., and each of them center around one gimmick.
Background Pony #AC48
@ЅℰℒᎯℙℋℐℰℒ
All it needs is a folding “arm brace” and a red-dot sight and it can be the most cursed firearm image ever.
All it needs is a folding “arm brace” and a red-dot sight and it can be the most cursed firearm image ever.
Background Pony #5252
FB Radom has released their new pistol to the civilian market - it’s called Vis 100. It looks a bit different than what was shown previously, e.g. the slide serrations have a different shape. TBH I liked the previous name (PR-15 Ragun) and look more. 
Also recently they have released a short MSBS Grot and a set consisting of long Grot plus a short barrel with the same serial number so it only counts as one gun in Poland.
The short variant with an AR-15 stock adapter:
MSBS Grot is available from 6900 PLN gross (that would be about $1500 net) and Vis 100 from 2600 PLN gross (about $560 net).
And… it’s only available in Poland for now. <sad trombone noises>
Also recently they have released a short MSBS Grot and a set consisting of long Grot plus a short barrel with the same serial number so it only counts as one gun in Poland.
The short variant with an AR-15 stock adapter:
MSBS Grot is available from 6900 PLN gross (that would be about $1500 net) and Vis 100 from 2600 PLN gross (about $560 net).
And… it’s only available in Poland for now. <sad trombone noises>
Ebalosus 
Build commie blocks!
@MagpulPony
You should use it as a response whenever a European gives you lip over American gun rights: “If you hate our guns so much, then why is your national service rifle a knockoff of the American AR-18?”
You should use it as a response whenever a European gives you lip over American gun rights: “If you hate our guns so much, then why is your national service rifle a knockoff of the American AR-18?”
MagpulPony 
Fuck Russia
I always thought most Brits hate their own guns. Especially their standard issue rifle. Not sure about other European countries though.
Ebalosus
Build commie blocks!
@MagpulPony
Both the German G36 and the HK416, along with the Belgian FN2000, owe a lot of their operating system design to the AR-18. Sure, the packaging is different, but the essential operation of the aforementioned guns is the same. On the one hand, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it and why reinvent the wheel when the Americans or Russians invented it betterer the first time; but on the other is betrays the immense conservatism in the gun industry, where too many good ideas are left to wither on the vine.
Both the German G36 and the HK416, along with the Belgian FN2000, owe a lot of their operating system design to the AR-18. Sure, the packaging is different, but the essential operation of the aforementioned guns is the same. On the one hand, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it and why reinvent the wheel when the Americans or Russians invented it betterer the first time; but on the other is betrays the immense conservatism in the gun industry, where too many good ideas are left to wither on the vine.
MagpulPony
Fuck Russia
@Ebalosus
My favorite gun of all time, the Minigun, was extremely close to being a killed project.
My favorite gun of all time, the Minigun, was extremely close to being a killed project.
Background Pony #AC48
@MagpulPony
It was killed at least once.
During the Spanish-American War an British engineer named George Accles purchased several Gatling guns in 6mm Lee Navy–the Navy and Marine service rifle cartridge at the time–and converted them to belt fed, with an electric motor. It fired 5000 rounds per minute. He tried to sell it to the Navy, then the War Department. They laughed at him. They could not imagine what it could possibly be good for.
It was killed at least once.
During the Spanish-American War an British engineer named George Accles purchased several Gatling guns in 6mm Lee Navy–the Navy and Marine service rifle cartridge at the time–and converted them to belt fed, with an electric motor. It fired 5000 rounds per minute. He tried to sell it to the Navy, then the War Department. They laughed at him. They could not imagine what it could possibly be good for.
MagpulPony
Fuck Russia
@Background Pony #AC48
Then it almost happened again around the time of the Vietnam war. Was very close to being written off as a useless and unlikely to succeed project until General Electric made it work. There was another gun that was supposed to take it’s place and failed but I don’t remember the name.
Then it almost happened again around the time of the Vietnam war. Was very close to being written off as a useless and unlikely to succeed project until General Electric made it work. There was another gun that was supposed to take it’s place and failed but I don’t remember the name.
Background Pony #AC48
@MagpulPony
What if the idea had been resurrected 20 or 25 years early, for World War II?
I am imagining a halftrack antiaircraft vehicle with four .30/06 miniguns running at 6000 rounds a minute instead of the quad 50, and imagining it being used in Korea against human wave assaults.
Didn’t Marines in Korea call the quad-50 halftracks and guntrucks “Thor’s Lawnmower?” I wonder what they’d have called quad-mounted miniguns moving four hundred rounds a second downrange. That’s, hmm, let me see… between eight and nine pounds of metal per second moving downrange at Mach 2.5. Quad 50s generally were only set up for about half of that weight of metal per second.
What if the idea had been resurrected 20 or 25 years early, for World War II?
I am imagining a halftrack antiaircraft vehicle with four .30/06 miniguns running at 6000 rounds a minute instead of the quad 50, and imagining it being used in Korea against human wave assaults.
Didn’t Marines in Korea call the quad-50 halftracks and guntrucks “Thor’s Lawnmower?” I wonder what they’d have called quad-mounted miniguns moving four hundred rounds a second downrange. That’s, hmm, let me see… between eight and nine pounds of metal per second moving downrange at Mach 2.5. Quad 50s generally were only set up for about half of that weight of metal per second.
MagpulPony
Fuck Russia
@Background Pony #AC48
The concept was always there. Germany had plenty of crazy tech and could have tried it, and the United States literally invented it and could have pursued a new version. But it’s also possible that the reliability of such a weapon would not have been great at all with 40s tech.
The concept was always there. Germany had plenty of crazy tech and could have tried it, and the United States literally invented it and could have pursued a new version. But it’s also possible that the reliability of such a weapon would not have been great at all with 40s tech.
Background Pony #AC48
@MagpulPony
The Gatling is pretty reliable inherently. Dud primers just mean the mechanism yanks the faulty cartridge out and dumps it in the pile of fired casings. Accles put on demonstrations for the US Navy in 1898 with 100% reliability.
That still gets me, by the way. One of the big military problems at the time that was of interest to naval powers was torpedoes–this was before submarines, back when torpedo launchers were normally found as part of coast artillery installations. Torpedoes of that era were short-ranged and ran very shallow in the water, so that a guy back at the launcher could steer them through a cable, sort of like a predecessor of the wire-guided antitank missile. Lots of big expensive dreadnoughts were built with lots of small and medium caliber high-rate-of-fire “anti torpedo guns,” everything from belt-fed MGs to 3” guns, intended to stop incoming torpedoes by either blowing them out of the water with high explosive shells or by putting a wall of metal between the ship and the torpedo–conceptually similar to late 20th Century CIWS. I wonder if Accles had said “you guys are worried about torpedoes, right? How does a hundred rounds a second of rifle caliber bullets sound to you as a countermeasure?” history would have gone differently. Electric Gatling guns would have added to the horrors of trench warfare, I suppose. I doubt it would have deterred the French general staff or French politicians. I put the chief blame of World War I on French jingoism and desire for revenge for the thrashing the Germans gave them in the Franco-Prussian War. Had the French not been so butthurt and so eager for a rematch, the war might have remained regional, or not happened at all.
But I digress. There were public demonstrations of the Maxim Gun in the UK in the 1890s in which one gun fired over 150,000 rounds a day for a week during daylight hours with no breaks except to reload it and put more water into the barrel jacket. It expended over one million rounds of .303 rifle ammunition with zero malfunctions other than a few cartridges that failed to fire due to faulty primers. Not one failure to feed, not one failure to extract, not one failure to eject, this with a Victorian Era design that used strips of cloth to feed it instead of a modern linked belt.
A lot of the Victorian era tech worked just fine. It was, by the standards of 130 years in the future, heavy, expensive, mechanically more complex than it needed to be, full of expensive parts that had to be manufactured as milled steel forgings and hand fitted, and often required a second crew member to sit there feed the cloth belt of ammo into it by hand to keep it from twisting and misfeeding–but that was okay, he was an extra pair of hands when it was time to reload or pour more water into the barrel jacket. But it worked just fine.
One of John Moses Browning’s toolroom prototype M1911s at the Army trials in 1910 fired six thousand rounds in one day with zero failures to fire or stoppages of any kind and zero parts breakage–not stopping to clean or lubricate it, and dunking it into a barrel of rain water whenever it became too hot to hold, then shaking the water out of it and continuing to shoot. Another prototype M1911 fired eighteen thousand rounds over the course of several days with the sole malfunctions resulting from dud primers or deliberately damaged, crumpled cartridges that would not fit into the chamber, with, again, no parts breakage. This with whale oil and lard as lubricants–only applied before the test began. That’s better than some current production HKs do–in 2010 the guys at pistol-training.com did a 10,000 round torture test of an HK P30 in 9mm and had at the end broken no fewer than seven (7) parts, though to be fair none of them shut down the gun completely, they just caused problems with things like the decocker, or the mag catch.
The Gatling is pretty reliable inherently. Dud primers just mean the mechanism yanks the faulty cartridge out and dumps it in the pile of fired casings. Accles put on demonstrations for the US Navy in 1898 with 100% reliability.
That still gets me, by the way. One of the big military problems at the time that was of interest to naval powers was torpedoes–this was before submarines, back when torpedo launchers were normally found as part of coast artillery installations. Torpedoes of that era were short-ranged and ran very shallow in the water, so that a guy back at the launcher could steer them through a cable, sort of like a predecessor of the wire-guided antitank missile. Lots of big expensive dreadnoughts were built with lots of small and medium caliber high-rate-of-fire “anti torpedo guns,” everything from belt-fed MGs to 3” guns, intended to stop incoming torpedoes by either blowing them out of the water with high explosive shells or by putting a wall of metal between the ship and the torpedo–conceptually similar to late 20th Century CIWS. I wonder if Accles had said “you guys are worried about torpedoes, right? How does a hundred rounds a second of rifle caliber bullets sound to you as a countermeasure?” history would have gone differently. Electric Gatling guns would have added to the horrors of trench warfare, I suppose. I doubt it would have deterred the French general staff or French politicians. I put the chief blame of World War I on French jingoism and desire for revenge for the thrashing the Germans gave them in the Franco-Prussian War. Had the French not been so butthurt and so eager for a rematch, the war might have remained regional, or not happened at all.
But I digress. There were public demonstrations of the Maxim Gun in the UK in the 1890s in which one gun fired over 150,000 rounds a day for a week during daylight hours with no breaks except to reload it and put more water into the barrel jacket. It expended over one million rounds of .303 rifle ammunition with zero malfunctions other than a few cartridges that failed to fire due to faulty primers. Not one failure to feed, not one failure to extract, not one failure to eject, this with a Victorian Era design that used strips of cloth to feed it instead of a modern linked belt.
A lot of the Victorian era tech worked just fine. It was, by the standards of 130 years in the future, heavy, expensive, mechanically more complex than it needed to be, full of expensive parts that had to be manufactured as milled steel forgings and hand fitted, and often required a second crew member to sit there feed the cloth belt of ammo into it by hand to keep it from twisting and misfeeding–but that was okay, he was an extra pair of hands when it was time to reload or pour more water into the barrel jacket. But it worked just fine.
One of John Moses Browning’s toolroom prototype M1911s at the Army trials in 1910 fired six thousand rounds in one day with zero failures to fire or stoppages of any kind and zero parts breakage–not stopping to clean or lubricate it, and dunking it into a barrel of rain water whenever it became too hot to hold, then shaking the water out of it and continuing to shoot. Another prototype M1911 fired eighteen thousand rounds over the course of several days with the sole malfunctions resulting from dud primers or deliberately damaged, crumpled cartridges that would not fit into the chamber, with, again, no parts breakage. This with whale oil and lard as lubricants–only applied before the test began. That’s better than some current production HKs do–in 2010 the guys at pistol-training.com did a 10,000 round torture test of an HK P30 in 9mm and had at the end broken no fewer than seven (7) parts, though to be fair none of them shut down the gun completely, they just caused problems with things like the decocker, or the mag catch.
Background Pony #AC48
@Background Pony #5252
How difficult is it to own a firearm in Poland? I assume some kind of licensing is required. What are the restrictions?
How difficult is it to own a firearm in Poland? I assume some kind of licensing is required. What are the restrictions?
Ebalosus
Build commie blocks!
@MagpulPony
I believe that was also around the time that they were also experimenting with rifling the barrels with electro-chemical machining, thus could use much tougher (hence more durable) materials to make the barrels out of, like tungsten carbide.
Even though they didn’t go with the tougher barrels, they still made a sweet and reliable gun.
I believe that was also around the time that they were also experimenting with rifling the barrels with electro-chemical machining, thus could use much tougher (hence more durable) materials to make the barrels out of, like tungsten carbide.
Even though they didn’t go with the tougher barrels, they still made a sweet and reliable gun.
MagpulPony
Fuck Russia
@Ebalosus
And I’ve had the privilege of messing around with them. Still waiting to fire one though. I also have a full size handheld replica.
And I’ve had the privilege of messing around with them. Still waiting to fire one though. I also have a full size handheld replica.
Background Pony #5252
@Background Pony #AC48
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Poland
The process of getting a permit and rules regarding transport, storage and use of guns are somewhat convoluted. At least the types of guns and accessories we can have aren’t restricted that much. Unfortunately new EU law might change that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Poland
The process of getting a permit and rules regarding transport, storage and use of guns are somewhat convoluted. At least the types of guns and accessories we can have aren’t restricted that much. Unfortunately new EU law might change that.
liquidsodanium
You are your worst enemy
@Ebalosus
If anyone knows the title of the music in the video, I’d like to know
If anyone knows the title of the music in the video, I’d like to know
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