Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

@Ereiam  
oh ok…..

@Shirani  
I make a product of $10 with the Means of Production used to make it costing $4  
The person who “owns” the MOP takes off $4 of the extra value created and leaves me with $2  
If I don’t comply with this, the police get called over and I’ll get shot for not obeying Private Property laws  
Meritocracy at its finest  

@Commune  
Isn’t that the point of being a boss? You hire other people to do shit for you. You own the establishment. The workers are able to work because you let them.

@Commune  
so what…no one can make a profit now because profit is “evil” in your eyes?

@HJSDGCE  
Workers do the actual Labour that creates commodities which is what society is based upon  
Bosses do not create jobs
 
@Shirani  
Yeah  
People should receive the same value they create  
Bosses create no commodities or really any value, their workers do

@Commune  
bosses like CEOs input INVESTMENT into the labor not to mention the places and factories they build. Without that investment you wouldn’t have your so called “workers paradise”. You would rather all of the stuff they invested in be taken away “for the greater good”. To put this into perspective even major companies started out small, but I guess you don’t care about that fact. You only care that they are rich and deserve a “punching down”.

@Shirani  
Ah yes as we all know they built it all themselves with their bare hands  
They don’t  
They get workers to build it and the companies they hire to build it also extract surplus value  
Also small buisnesses aren’t good either as they also extract surplus value albeit on a smaller scale than big companies  
And again how does them building factories and putting investment justify them taking surplus value from their workers which they themselves did not create even  
Also couldn’t we also apply the same argument to feudal lords ? That feudal lords also put investment into their lands and therefore should keep it ?  
Capitalism came from Feudalism and Socialism shall come from capitalism  
It’s called Historical Materialism

@Commune  
And socialism never works.
 
The higher ups in the system get everything while the people the ones “they” claim to wish to help suffer. Let us we forget the lake of even the most basic of food in places like soviet Russia, and even Venezuela. Go ahead a google “Venezuela grocery” Try and tell me there’s enough food in the stores for the people. There’s a reason there’s a mass revolt going on there.
 
Then there’s the fact that in such countries, ‘work’ is essentially indentured servitude and just made to work until you drop dead. Socialist China is a good example of this as well as many others.
 
The biggest thing to always remember, socialist countries always become a tyrannical dictatorship. Remember The National SOCIALIST German Workers’ Party?
 
I think you can all know what became of them.
 
You can use whatever excuse you want, you can’t change history, and either socialist countries are either moving away from socialism or are becoming worse with it.

@Cyborg_pony  
>using fucking Venezuela and Nazi Germany as examples of Socialism  
Wew lad
 
Ignoring how the state is abolished under socialism and that socialism has never been tried(the Dictatorship of the Proletariat has however), Venezuela and Nazi Germany aren’t Socialist  
And before you say it again, is North Korea Democratic though it calls itself the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea ? That’s what I though  
Venezuela still enforces Private Property and Property relations and the private sector still makes up a large part of the economy. It’s not even a dictatorship of the Proletariat  
As for Nazi Germany, Industrialists and Big Businessmen support the Nazis. How the hell are they socialist again ?  
As for the Soviet Union, they had like 3 famines. The Russian Empire before t had dozens upon dozens not to mention that even capitalist countries have famines, for example, the Bengal Famine and the dozens upon dozens of famines in British controlled India  
And after WWII, they managed to create housing for all and reduce unemployment  
Also how is China Socialist ? Under Mao then it wasn’t, and now it’s just State Capitalist to the max
 
Read a book
 
Edit: The USSR arguably is just a state capitalist Social “democratic” state  
It ceased to be a DOTP after Stalin seized power

@Cyborg_pony  
There has never been a non-authoritarian “”“socialist””” government.

@byte[]  
As for “Socialist” as in the socialist movement, there is Rojava and the Zapatistas who are fighting for Socialism as well as advancing Democracy and Feminism

@Commune  
>Feminism  
wew careful, there wouldn’t want to trigger anybody with that kind of language.

@Cyborg_pony  
Nazi Germany defiantly wasn’t Socialist despite the name.
 
Hitler even made propaganda depicting people reliant on welfare as lazy, and there were numerous corporations who profited off the Holocaust.
 
As for Venezuela, while Chavez may have been a Democratic Socialist, a large part of the country was still controlled by the private sector. A lot of said grocery stores in Venezuela actually took food of the selves to deliberately cause a crisis and sabotage Chavez’s government.

@byte[]  
When François Mitterrand got elected president in 1981, the French right-wing bourgeoisie was collectively shitting themselves thinking that the Red Army tanks would roll down the Champs-Elysées within the month.
 
In reality, Mitterrand’s initial socialist policies were bold but unfortunately, and by his own admission, he wasn’t bold enough to follow through with them (especially as, due to an ill-suited economic context, they made the budget deficit and public debt skyrocket) and was eventually forced to backpedal, before he lost his parliamentary majority (twice even: once before his re-election, once after).
 
And the less is said about the Hollande presidency the better. Those guys have lost all rights to call themselves socialists and Macron is their worthy successor.

I wonder what would’ve happened had Trump never ran for office?

@Hypnosryan  
The world would be a happier place. I know I would.

@fobone  
Maybe.
 
Either Ted Cruz or Hillary Clinton probably would’ve became POTUS without him. The Democrats still probably would’ve sabotaged Bernie Sanders’ campaign.
 
It’s also possible that someone else would’ve came along and filled the void for a Trump.

@Hypnosryan  
Perhaps.
 
Maybe all this was inevitable. Can one truly change the tides of fate? All this hatred and mistrust towards each other didn’t come from nowhere, it was built up over the past five decades, and yet nobody did anything to stop it.

@Hypnosryan  
Bourgeois democracy continues

@Hypnosryan  
There’s still something most people forget; Bernie knew he was getting dicked over and he still back the literal embodiment of what his entire campaign was against, and then buys a new 3rd mansion.
 
Given all that and how he response to people and his policies, Sanders is definitely not the messiah people were propping him up to be.

Personally, I wonder what would’ve happened if Steve Bannon had somehow gotten himself elected. From what I’ve seen, the left mocks Trump; they’re afraid of Bannon.

Looks like there’s more to this Russia story than we all thought, I wish Billy Mays was still alive and a news anchor that way he can say “But wait there’s more!” every time there’s a new development in the story

@neutralgrey  
Wonder if Steven Trevor or John will think to use that for a skit,

@HeadlessHorselessHorseman  
Bannon is a more “intelligent” Trump. Basically Dick Cheney.
 
If he was a elected, he would’ve done hell of a lot better at trying to get people on his side. Not to mention hid is skeletons in his closest better and not let himself or his family blither them out like retards.