Background Pony #1F2F
Deletion reason: Rule #0
Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)
Background Pony #1F2F
I swear this site signs me out on a whim…
Latecomer
@MethidMan
You’re really not helping.
@Kiryu-Chan
A lot of people didn’t ignore it - they went and fought, sometimes before their countries.
You’re really not helping.
@Kiryu-Chan
A lot of people didn’t ignore it - they went and fought, sometimes before their countries.
Latecomer
@Background Pony #1F2F
There were.
And if that’s the case, then perhpas we should try and make them worth fighting for?
There were.
And if that’s the case, then perhpas we should try and make them worth fighting for?
Violet Rose in The Rain 
The “Greatest Generation” killed the nazis.
They also were the Nazis. Germany, Italy, Portugal, and a dozen other countries became fascist nations. A dozen others like Brazil almost did but then didn’t.
Meanwhile, America was staying the fuck out of this, and actually considering supporting the Nazis up until the Japanese (who were allied with the Nazis) bombed one of their ships, and they figured this was ground enough to side with the Allied forces over the Axis.
There was no moral motivation to anyone joining World War II. Just enforced nationalism doing what enforced nationalism ultimately always does: Lead to large scale war, death, destruction, and genocide.
And as soon as the war ended, the survivors went right back to believing all the things that lead to the war happening in the first place.
You don’t score points for fixing your own mess.
They also were the Nazis. Germany, Italy, Portugal, and a dozen other countries became fascist nations. A dozen others like Brazil almost did but then didn’t.
Meanwhile, America was staying the fuck out of this, and actually considering supporting the Nazis up until the Japanese (who were allied with the Nazis) bombed one of their ships, and they figured this was ground enough to side with the Allied forces over the Axis.
There was no moral motivation to anyone joining World War II. Just enforced nationalism doing what enforced nationalism ultimately always does: Lead to large scale war, death, destruction, and genocide.
And as soon as the war ended, the survivors went right back to believing all the things that lead to the war happening in the first place.
You don’t score points for fixing your own mess.
Latecomer
@Violet Rose in The Rain
At the national level, perhaps. But many individuals fought for their principles, good or evil. For the future promised by Axis propaganda, or against the atrocity Allied propaganda didn’t need to exaggerate. For dreams of freedom and justice that wouldn’t come true, and for others that would in time.
At the national level, perhaps. But many individuals fought for their principles, good or evil. For the future promised by Axis propaganda, or against the atrocity Allied propaganda didn’t need to exaggerate. For dreams of freedom and justice that wouldn’t come true, and for others that would in time.
tehwatever 
@Metro_Offset
They Thought They Were Free basically told us that the german whites DID KNOW. They just figured it was ok because it’s not happening to THEM.
They ok with Nazi roughing up what they believed was few and in the minority if it meant the large majority of good, law abiding, self-respecting, patriotic and civilized germans could benefit.
The Nazi party were helping german ‘aryans’ when no other party would, and that won hearts and loyalty.
They Thought They Were Free basically told us that the german whites DID KNOW. They just figured it was ok because it’s not happening to THEM.
They ok with Nazi roughing up what they believed was few and in the minority if it meant the large majority of good, law abiding, self-respecting, patriotic and civilized germans could benefit.
The Nazi party were helping german ‘aryans’ when no other party would, and that won hearts and loyalty.
doloresbridge 
Earlier on are you talking about?
The US already had tensions with Japan before that point. In fact, the whole China situation was a confusing mess, with the Nazis and USA at one point backing the nationalist faction, who were fighting Japan I don’t see how this incident supports what you say with the USA deciding to be against Nazi Germany after this as Nazi Germany, Japan, The USA and the Soviet Union had all been dancing around with this. It was a more complex situation with a lot of moving parts.
Certainly US officals turned a blind eye
But also:
Still a black mark on him but I haven’t seen any account where it was considered realistic that the US would support the Nazis in WWII even if there was some significant Nazi sympathizers . Even the US’ participation in the 1936 Olympics was controversial
I’m not calling the USA a angel and I would like to understand where you are coming from with this. Where did you hear that?
I do not think such broad generational blaming makes sense. Where does that logic stop? I mean, plenty of holocaust victims were also of the greatest generation and had the same beliefs that you decry for the cause of it.
Peace to all
Meanwhile, America was staying the fuck out of this, and actually considering supporting the Nazis up until the Japanese
Americans’ Support for Assisting England, France and Poland
How far should we go in helping England, France and Poland …
Yes No
% %
Should we sell them food supplies? 74 27
Should we sell airplanes and other war materials to England and France? 58 42
Should we send our Army and Navy abroad to fight against Germany? 16 84
Gallup, Sept. 1-6, 1939
Americans rarely agree as overwhelmingly as they did in November 1938. Just two weeks after Nazi Germany coordinated a brutal nationwide attack against Jews within its own borders – an event known as “Kristallnacht” – Gallup asked Americans: “Do you approve or disapprove of the Nazi treatment of Jews in Germany?” Nearly everyone who responded – 94% – indicated that they disapproved.Yet, even though nearly all Americans condemned the Nazi regime’s terror against Jews in November 1938, that very same week, 72% of Americans said “No” when Gallup asked: “Should we allow a larger number of Jewish exiles from Germany to come to the United States to live?” Just 21% said “Yes.”
Earlier on are you talking about?
considering supporting the Nazis up until the Japanese (who were allied with the Nazis) bombed one of their ships
In the Pacific Roosevelt continued Hoover’s policy of nonrecognition of Japan’s conquests in Asia. When Japan invaded China in 1937, however, he seemed to begin moving away from isolationism. He did not invoke the Neutrality Act, which had just been revised, and in October he warned that war was like a disease and suggested that it might be desirable for peace-loving nations to “quarantine” aggressor nations. He then quickly denied that his statement had any policy implications, and by December, when Japanese aircraft sank a U.S. gunboat in the Yangtze River, thoughts of reprisal were stifled by public apathy and by Japan’s offer of apologies and indemnities.
The US already had tensions with Japan before that point. In fact, the whole China situation was a confusing mess, with the Nazis and USA at one point backing the nationalist faction, who were fighting Japan I don’t see how this incident supports what you say with the USA deciding to be against Nazi Germany after this as Nazi Germany, Japan, The USA and the Soviet Union had all been dancing around with this. It was a more complex situation with a lot of moving parts.
Certainly US officals turned a blind eye
To Wise’s growing frustration, Roosevelt refrained from issuing public statements about Germany’s antisemitic policies. In 82 press conferences during 1933, Roosevelt mentioned that topic only once. “Roosevelt was not willing to risk even mildly straining American-German relations by publicly taking issue with Hitler’s human rights abuses,” writes Medoff.
But also:
Roosevelt’s de facto appeasement of Germany did not mean he condoned the Nazi regime. Throughout the 1930s, in private conversations and cabinet discussions, he expressed abhorrence of Nazism and regarded Hitler as a clear and present threat to world peace.
Still a black mark on him but I haven’t seen any account where it was considered realistic that the US would support the Nazis in WWII even if there was some significant Nazi sympathizers . Even the US’ participation in the 1936 Olympics was controversial
Debate over participation in the 1936 Olympics was most intense in the United States, which traditionally sent one of the largest teams to the Games. Some boycott proponents supported counter-Olympics. One of the largest was the “People’s Olympiad” planned for the summer of 1936 in Barcelona, Spain. It was canceled after the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War in July 1936, just as thousands of athletes had begun to arrive.
I’m not calling the USA a angel and I would like to understand where you are coming from with this. Where did you hear that?
You don’t score points for fixing your own mess.
I do not think such broad generational blaming makes sense. Where does that logic stop? I mean, plenty of holocaust victims were also of the greatest generation and had the same beliefs that you decry for the cause of it.
silbasa 
@Metro_Offset
There is certainly that aspect to the far left now. Often perpetrated by white people as strange as it is.
There is certainly that aspect to the far left now. Often perpetrated by white people as strange as it is.
Metro_Offset 
@silbasa
Its not simply the far-left. Its a feature of the left. And it will continue. That’s why you need to stand up for your race. You will be called far-right, but it should be clear to anyone that leftist ideology comes at the detriment of white people. Whites who follow it admit as much, but say it doesn’t matter.
Its not simply the far-left. Its a feature of the left. And it will continue. That’s why you need to stand up for your race. You will be called far-right, but it should be clear to anyone that leftist ideology comes at the detriment of white people. Whites who follow it admit as much, but say it doesn’t matter.
doloresbridge
A lot of far left criticism is centered in class. You can find those that find the whole race dialog ridiculous, or at least a little dumb. In fact I’d argue that these racial dynamics are being pushed by progressive elites with some marxist on the side over “cultural marxism” or legacy labor focused left wing political movements that are the normal bogeyman, but that would require too much typing right now.
Also, I think organizing under race, at least in a US political context, is dangerous. If the White race racializes its politics while at the same time the progressives do, it would only further a downward trend of the common structures that hold society together. Additionally, you would have folks who have greater loyalties to other structures and institutions that it would be far better to rally and defend over “white racial consciousness”.
Peace to all
Its a feature of the left. And it will continue. That’s why you need to stand up for your race. You will be called far-right, but it should be clear to anyone that leftist ideology comes at the detriment of white people.
A lot of far left criticism is centered in class. You can find those that find the whole race dialog ridiculous, or at least a little dumb. In fact I’d argue that these racial dynamics are being pushed by progressive elites with some marxist on the side over “cultural marxism” or legacy labor focused left wing political movements that are the normal bogeyman, but that would require too much typing right now.
Also, I think organizing under race, at least in a US political context, is dangerous. If the White race racializes its politics while at the same time the progressives do, it would only further a downward trend of the common structures that hold society together. Additionally, you would have folks who have greater loyalties to other structures and institutions that it would be far better to rally and defend over “white racial consciousness”.
Metro_Offset
@doloresbridge
It is not all centered in class. We know what leftists think of race, you’ve been seeing it for years. And its very simple, the white man is oppressing people of color. There aren’t enough racists anymore to explain why people of color mostly do worse than white people so now we have to blame the ill-defined term of institutional racism instead. Also, white people don’t really exist as a race. Not only that, but their ancestors are evil. The white population is decreasing and if you don’t like that, well you’re simply a racist.
Leftist thoughts on race boil down to how to correctly pointing out how our multiracial society isn’t working, then blaming it all on the white man.
As for organising under race. People have always organised under race in the United States. Blacks have their own institutions, as do Hispanics, as does everyone else under the sun. But there is one group that isn’t allowed to organise by race and that’s white people. I suppose you’ll also have the same views when it comes to the NAACP and propose breaking it up? Or is it only when someone suggests white people do it?
It is not all centered in class. We know what leftists think of race, you’ve been seeing it for years. And its very simple, the white man is oppressing people of color. There aren’t enough racists anymore to explain why people of color mostly do worse than white people so now we have to blame the ill-defined term of institutional racism instead. Also, white people don’t really exist as a race. Not only that, but their ancestors are evil. The white population is decreasing and if you don’t like that, well you’re simply a racist.
Leftist thoughts on race boil down to how to correctly pointing out how our multiracial society isn’t working, then blaming it all on the white man.
As for organising under race. People have always organised under race in the United States. Blacks have their own institutions, as do Hispanics, as does everyone else under the sun. But there is one group that isn’t allowed to organise by race and that’s white people. I suppose you’ll also have the same views when it comes to the NAACP and propose breaking it up? Or is it only when someone suggests white people do it?
Terminal Rex
Going Indognito mode..
I’d rather be united by Patriotism, mutual self interest and the constitution rather then collectivist bullshit like race. You can’t beat collectivists if you make it about race because they’re a lot better at it.
Metro_Offset
@Terminal Red
And that is why you civnats will lose. Demography is destiny in American politics. Every single racial group other than white people votes Democrat in elections, but civnats still delude themselves into thinking either America’s soil or America’s pieces of paper have magic transformative properties to turn a Somali into a Middle American. The flag, monuments to certain leaders, or cultural norms such as a tradition of free speech are dependent on a European-American majority. Everything you value will soon be crushed and you’ll still be questioning why the increasingly non-white Texas turned blue.
As Yoram Hazony points out in The Virtue of Nationalism:
And that is why you civnats will lose. Demography is destiny in American politics. Every single racial group other than white people votes Democrat in elections, but civnats still delude themselves into thinking either America’s soil or America’s pieces of paper have magic transformative properties to turn a Somali into a Middle American. The flag, monuments to certain leaders, or cultural norms such as a tradition of free speech are dependent on a European-American majority. Everything you value will soon be crushed and you’ll still be questioning why the increasingly non-white Texas turned blue.
As Yoram Hazony points out in The Virtue of Nationalism:
abstract concepts are an insufficient basis for a cohesive society (156). Although there may be a sense of loyalty and sacredness attached to a document such as the Constitution, this arises only through “the customs of the family, clan, tribe and nation.” In most cases, these customs must be absorbed in childhood from older generations (158), so ancestry is important for national identity.
silbasa
@Metro_Offset
The US is in a moral panic now. Everything is racist and everybody is trying to show in every way possible that they are not racist. Marxists thrive in this climate.
The US is in a moral panic now. Everything is racist and everybody is trying to show in every way possible that they are not racist. Marxists thrive in this climate.
Metro_Offset
@silbasa
Again, this isn’t simply Marxism. This is leftist racial thought and what many people of color believe. Particularly black people.
Again, this isn’t simply Marxism. This is leftist racial thought and what many people of color believe. Particularly black people.
silbasa
@Metro_Offset
They are marxists or influenced by it. Many dont know what it is exactly, it feels good to be virtous, its the cool new thing etc. But make no mistake, it is communism in a new cloak. They use the moral panic to further their goal of overturning society and making it “fair”. Attacking white people and everthing “white” is a key part.
It is what it is.
They are marxists or influenced by it. Many dont know what it is exactly, it feels good to be virtous, its the cool new thing etc. But make no mistake, it is communism in a new cloak. They use the moral panic to further their goal of overturning society and making it “fair”. Attacking white people and everthing “white” is a key part.
It is what it is.
doloresbridge
Tell me one time that a “pro white” organization has existed that didn’t utterly have abhorrent views and/or wasn’t a total laughing stock? I just think that race is a horrible thing to organize under.
To be honest, I am not a fan of the NAACP either. I do not think any organizations need to be broken up. I just don’t like white racial consciousness. It feels like it would be cutting up the country further. Listen, I get it if you feel under attack. Race is becoming about everything. In some corners there is nothing that you can do about that you won’t be judged by it, but you know what? This system is a very performative, very superficial system. They sometimes even go after local cultural institutions of their own races because it doesn’t fit into their idea of what their “race” should act. I’d rather not participate. I don’t want to have to be “pro white” whatever that means to you.
The culture and structure that I will defend to the death is Texas. If I were to go down that path I would only be further attacking it. Further bleeding and slicing off the common culture, one that wouldn’t survive if each race/ethic group claimed whats “theirs”.
Peace to all
As for organising under race. People have always organised under race in the United States. Blacks have their own institutions, as do Hispanics, as does everyone else under the sun. But there is one group that isn’t allowed to organise by race and that’s white people.
Tell me one time that a “pro white” organization has existed that didn’t utterly have abhorrent views and/or wasn’t a total laughing stock? I just think that race is a horrible thing to organize under.
I suppose you’ll also have the same views when it comes to the NAACP and propose breaking it up? Or is it only when someone suggests white people do it?
To be honest, I am not a fan of the NAACP either. I do not think any organizations need to be broken up. I just don’t like white racial consciousness. It feels like it would be cutting up the country further. Listen, I get it if you feel under attack. Race is becoming about everything. In some corners there is nothing that you can do about that you won’t be judged by it, but you know what? This system is a very performative, very superficial system. They sometimes even go after local cultural institutions of their own races because it doesn’t fit into their idea of what their “race” should act. I’d rather not participate. I don’t want to have to be “pro white” whatever that means to you.
The culture and structure that I will defend to the death is Texas. If I were to go down that path I would only be further attacking it. Further bleeding and slicing off the common culture, one that wouldn’t survive if each race/ethic group claimed whats “theirs”.
Ebalosus 
Build commie blocks!
@Terminal Red
No wonder they use her philosophy in the plots of all the capeshit MCU movies. They occasionally use the philosophy of Mencius Moldbug for movies like Black Panther and Sea Man, which our mate Metro appreciates.
No wonder they use her philosophy in the plots of all the capeshit MCU movies. They occasionally use the philosophy of Mencius Moldbug for movies like Black Panther and Sea Man, which our mate Metro appreciates.
doloresbridge
Peace to all
In the past five years, white liberals have moved so far to the left on questions of race and racism that they are now, on these issues, to the left of even the typical black voter.
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