Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

Background Human
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CHS, Class of 20XX
@MethidMan  
The New York Times has a piece today, talking about how Democratic activists planned for and responded to Trump’s attempts to subvert the 2020 election. And one of the things it mentions is that they worked on exactly this kind of messaging.  
Just as important, progressive groups reckoned with their own vulnerabilities: The impulses toward fiery rhetoric and divisive demands — which generated polarizing slogans like “Abolish ICE” and “Defund the police” — were supplanted by a more studied vocabulary, developed through nightly opinion research and message testing.
So they have the ability to do it. It’s just that these grassroots, viral protests don’t have the same kind of organization and discipline to make it work. They’re not going into it with a plan. They just sort of go with whatever plays well at rallies and on Twitter, which tends to be the opposite of bipartisan.
 
It’s a problem for either side; just look at where Trump’s rhetoric ended up. But if you’re serious about getting shit done, it is a problem, and one that needs to be resolved. How? Fuck if I know.
Ebalosus
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Build commie blocks!
@Dustcan
 
That’s even worse than I suspected.
 
@Ciaran
 
Not comparing presidents, just pointing out that the debt numbers are a lot worse than people realise; and that’s not even getting into unfunded liabilities like social security and Medicare.
 
While democrats tend to be a bit better when it comes to reigning in the deficit, they tend to just slow its growth. The republicans pay lip service to “cutting the budget,” but it’s never on anything meaningful.
 
@Goku Black
 
Most US debt is held by the US, not by other countries. IIRC foreigners hold around a third of US debt, while the rest is held by the US itself through the issue of treasury bonds and good old quantitative easing (read: printing money).
Violet Rose in The Rain
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IMO the “ACAB” motto/movement is not a good mentality to have and that would only just make issues related to crime and police even worse.
Yes there are a lot of shitty cops around the world that do need to be called out and punished, and yes a lot of police forces (especially in the US) need a serious overhaul on how they work and how they respond to situations, but trying to say that all the people on the side of law enforcement are shitty and horrible people just creates a really toxic mentality to have, and also makes some people just come across as heartless psychos too (i remember back when the blm protests were at their peak and we had people cheering and celebrating over cops getting hurt and even killed).
Can’t we call out police brutality and push for serious police reforms without having t jump on this extremism shit?
 
Why do we say ACAB: (All cops are bastards)
Police are the armed enforcers of the owning / capitalist class, in the US having their origins in the Slave catching patrols of the 1700s. They’re the domestic enforcement arm of capital, the hired goons of the elites of their given city, serving their interests, with a monopoly on violence, analogous to the military, who acts as the imperialist enforcement arm. Their daily activities consist of fucking over poor people and trapping them in a cycle of poverty.
Instead of solving thefts of personal property for working class people, they are themselves active thieves, generating over [$12B USD / year in civil forfeiture, and even more profit through traffic offenses and court costs. You can call them to come stand around and scratch their heads for an hour (if they don’t decide to shoot you), but more likely they’ll be at a protest being active agents of the US police state](https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md#pervasive), pic, where they collect a massive amount of data on “troublemakers” using facial recognition, and military grade equipment, pic against the citizens they occupy.
Oh but who will imprison the rapists? Not the police: Less than 0.5% of rapists are in prison, despite 1 out of every 5 women being raped in the US. Perpetrators of sexual violence are less likely to go to prison than for any other crime, such as non-violent drug offenses. Police, when not abducting and raping women themselves, or beating their wives and kids in high numbers, have been shown to protect high-status sex traffic rings, and famous, well-connected predators.
Cops have a long history of murdering workers organizing for better conditions. They imprison the poor in huge numbers, 1 out of every 5 black men, and 1 / 7 Latino men are kidnapped at some point and thrown in a cage, mostly for nonviolent drug-related offenses. Cops kill over 1000 people a year in the US.
All cops have a duty to uphold those interests, that is their societal function; if they don’t toe that line, they get fired. That’s the systemic reason to hate them, and advocate for the abolition of capitalist police, and why the only good cop is an ex cop, or a dead one. And I know an ex cop who quit when they realized what harm they were doing to people.
But not all cops are bad you might say? Well when they’re not spending their time fucking with poor ppl, kidnapping, and murdering people, 4 out of every 10 of them go home and beat their wives and kids. They also kill so many house pets that it’s considered a noted statistical phenomenon 30 murdered dogs every day, 2. So they are also domestic abusers, pet killers, and all around trash on a personal level.
Sorry I’m so amped about this, but they also murdered a 14 year old in Phoenix, AZ a few weeks ago, and after delaying the release of, then doctoring the body cam footage, the cop is getting off yet again.

Oh, and for anyone wondering what the alternative is, here are some things domestic worker-controlled security forces (it feels almost blasphemous to call them police, since they have the exact opposite function as capitalist police) have historically done:
  • Actually solved murders, rapes, and thefts against working class people.
  • Were fully accountable for offenses (although these were rare since there was no for-profit abduction system as exists in Capitalism).
  • Enforced traffic guidelines in cities, first with suggestions, then with minimal to no fines. See this episode of How Yukong moved the mountains to get an idea of the demeanour of some police in China during the cultural revolution for example.
  • Arrested Capitalists, not empowered them.
  • Worker strikes, when they happened, were left alone.
  • Had minimal crime rates, since homelessness and joblessness were low.
  • Focused on rehabilitation, not punishment.
O. Hancock
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Penis
This interview with a Boogaloo shows you might have more in common with them than you think.
 
Not an endorsement, but a fascinating discussion nonetheless. Real journalism. I’m in disagreement on a few things with the Boogaloos, namely the laises-faire no-safety-net approach to infrastructure, shelter, and healthcare. However, I’ve been saying for awhile now that we need a libertarian-progressive alliance of sorts if we’re going to get stuff done, that libertarians and progressives are going to have to find common ground and work together to fight the corrupt establishment. It seems like maybe I should become a Boogaloo, since at least some of them seem willing to do just that.
Background Pony #5A29
Police are the armed enforcers of the owning / capitalist class, in the US having their origins in the Slave catching patrols of the 1700s.
 
Incorrect. Police in the US have their origins in the practices of the European nations, specifically the British.
Wiimeiser
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(Foil Hat)
Police are the armed enforcers of the owning / capitalist class, in the US having their origins in the Slave catching patrols of the 1700s.
Incorrect. Police in the US have their origins in the practices of the European nations, specifically the British.
 
This would make the most sense. Though the guy who invented them is 10 days younger than Sydney, which was established in response to England losing ownership of most of their North American colony and having to buy/steal Hochelaga and Vesperia from the French. So there may be some precedent for the misconception, even if it’s only for the misconception. The misconception more than likely comes from the fact white cops often unfairly target black people. Recently I learned that my sister’s old white male friends from school are all apparently nazis, so I’m starting to believe that white supremacy may run deeper than we think…
Background Pony #5A29
@Wiimeiser  
I think this is sort of related to the NYT’s 1619 project. Not in a direct sort of way, but more in the way people view America. If you didn’t know that project claimed that the true founding of America was when the first slaves came over. So that sort of establishes an original sin for the United States around slavery. With that mental framework I don’t see it as a leap to believe the police here were also established for the purpose of slavery.
 
I think the small ACAB movement is poisonous to their own goal. I support police reform and prison reform, but it is difficult to fight for that kind of reform when now you have a group chanting all cops are bastards and all of the attention is on that.
Background Pony #5A29
@Wiimeiser  
It was, and slavery has existed in the world as an institution long before The US. It is important to keep in mind though that slavery in Ancient Greece or Rome was a much different institution then the African slavery in the new world. Some people will try to use that as an excuse for slavery in America, it isn’t.
Background Pony #581E
Read “The Man Who Helped Turn 4chan Into the Internet’s Racist Engine” on Vice.Like now. You’re not immune to propaganda
Background Pony #581E
Days after days, more and more content surfaces like this one above showing me that no ,mods,i was not hysteric and taking 4chan “too seriously”. Yes,you can “whatabout” about Twitter,Facebook or Reddit,i never said those websites were pristine beacon of free speech immune to criticism. The issue i have with 4chan and i’ll argue that till my ding breath, i’ll spread the message to the future generations on whatever medium that’ll follow Internet is that 4chan cardinal sin was it’s insidious infiltration of countercultures. While Facebook radicalize the normies,your grandparents, 4chan was the second wave of the two-prong attack on democracy and human rights making sure that the youth,usually rebelling against the norms of the previous generations parrot the same shit as your grandparents. Cant you see the danger in that ? Cant you see all the shit that garbage meme culture did ? Don’t you see the problem of dressing deadly far right ideology with a snappy countercultural coat of paint ? Arent you alarmed that argumentations get shot down with a TL;DR and a wojak face.4chan gave extremely efficient cultural weapons to people who hate your guts and in their own terms borrowed from the Turner Diaries want to see you hanged from a lamp post in Los Angeles among the “race traitors” and “soy boy”  
Fuck subtelty,4Chan and its spin-offs are the “Der Sturmer” of our times. It may have started as an anime board but fucko it’s not 2003 anymore, no one give a shit about your /a/ or the fucking origami board. /pol/ is the black hole that capture you or your kids in its gravitional pull,never let go and spit you back as a dangerous channers ready to mow down people in the name of Pizzagate or a Pepe meme  
(I want to type something very harsh here but eh getting banned is a bore but rest assured i’m still allowed to think 2 specific words very strongly), i was right. Tumblr was a unconsequential gnat on the Internet landscape. 4chan is the pied piper leading you to nazism
Zincy
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In Vino Veritas
Conservatives hailed Trump’s “buy American” executive order back when he first signed it.
 
The problem? It was toothless. It provided almost 0 real changes to how the federal government purchased materials. And it gave federal oversight committees very few ways to enforce what weak changes it had.
 
 
Biden is signing an enhanced version today. Upping the required amount of American made materials, closing loopholes that allowed certain materials to be “supplemented” by foreign ones, tightening what is considered American made so that companies that are mostly outside the US cannot claim to be so just for government dosh, and establishing a direct oversight position to ensure that it gets done. Also, unlike Trump, who put no formal time requirements. Bidens order requires the changes to be made in 180 days.
 
Now, we wait and see how many conservatives chastise him for this. Because when their sugar daddy paid lip service to US manufacturers, it was the best thing since sliced bread. When a dem does something to actually help, then its “going against the free market”.
 
It will join a raft of projected infrastructure investments aimed an revitalizing US manufacturing and updating our crumbling systems.
Dustcan
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Dogs
They’ve been saying that since Obama. How’d that work out?
 
Addendum: Obama did create concentration camps. But he stuck foreign children in them.
 
Which both Trump and Fox News thought was a great idea so they ratcheted up the idea into a cornerstone of their immigration policy.
 
So yeah.
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