Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

Zincy
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In Vino Veritas
That’s actually not correct. For most atheists, it’s the lack of any demonstratable evidence that God exists, or at the very least that a specific God does not exist.
If someone comes up to you with a box, and says that inside the box is a green cube, but refuses to provide any evidence to there being a green cube inside the box, there is not an equivalence in belief if you say that you don’t believe them.
You have no way of testing if there is, in fact, a green cube. And you can not prove a negative in absence of direct evidence to the contrary. It is up to the man making the assertion about the cube to provide evidence for the cubes existence.
Just as it is fundamentally up to theists to provide evidence that their deity exists if they intend to make people believe in them. Otherwise, it is perfectly logically sound to reject their assertion.
Beth
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@Zincy
Oh yes the burden of proof.
I could say god might exists without really asserting any framework for what god is. the possibility of something beyond science might not really need proof in and of itself as an abstract thought alone. So the actual question, if not useful, I tend to ignore it.
I would wonder when people started believing certain things, why, what function it has for society, is it going to be a problem, what are these kinds of people like, if they’re all the same, and what are their motivations.
If some vastly abstract unprovable thing is the reference point in which someone personally learns about the world that’s fine As long as it stays out of government. It’s people who cannot take in new information that are an issue.
Now with science it becomes a little more confusing. Like “i have faith i will find this vaccine” and “I have faith I can cure you without vaccines” both can seem virtuous and both problematic on the surface.
Some kind of athiest, would be like anti-thiest. In which the absolute value of an anti-thiest is a thiest. These people know for certain that they have the truth, but they’re not willing to break down the issues or explain themselves.
“There is too many claims to discredit” this is why I take a functional approach, if the answer is not immediately useful, I will disregard it. So I often skip the god debate entirely. I worry more about a believers norms and behaviors, who they cause problems with etc.

Until people are trying to fuck with others, I don’t worry much about their personal, abstract beliefs.
“god exists” ok cool.
“god hates gay people” Ok who is god and why does he hate gay people?
The whole attitude can switch. One needs a lot more burden of proof than the other.
Posted Report
Beth
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@The Smiling Pony
athiesm “lack of theist frameform for beliefs” (makes no claim about the existance of god, they claim there is no proof, and thus make no assertion about god. they’re against religious assertions more than the possibility of god)
thiest “thiest framework for beleifs”
antithiest “someone who rejects any thiest framework for beleifs” (they believe in certain no god exists)
agnosticism “belief that some knowledge is ultimately unobtainable” (which is often used in the god debate despite being a much bigger philosophy)

A lot of people who call themselves athiest, actually act much like antithiest.
Many people who call themselves antisocial (against society) are actually just run-of-the-mill asocial (avoids society).
Posted Report
Beth
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@altopony
A- means lack of
Anti- means opposed to.
I actually thought the same thing.
It turns out that agnosticism makes an assertion. An assertion that some things are unknowable.
Athiest don’t know if some things are unknowable, they just lack the assertions of faith.
EDIT: Oh! I see, this is a new kind of wording convention. “hardline atheists” does pretty much mean antithiest. My bad.
Background Pony #7918
Agnostics would not reject the assertion that god exists, atheists would (yes, just on the basis of burden of proof, not on the basis of having proof to the contrary).
Posted Report
Background Pony #7918
I also do not think any other part of human society and beliefs assigns a great importance to difference between those who disbelief in something for lack of proof and those who disbelief on the basis of possessing proof to the contrary. The epistemological status is different yet both positions suggest similar/same measurable actions and responses.
Posted Report
Galestorm
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Monocle Gentlesir
police brutality is a horrible act that shouldn’t happen, that’s something we can al agree on. but the fact that people make little to no noise when the brutality is committed (against a black victim &/or criminal) by an officer(s) who happens to be black is more than puzzling to me. these absolute loonies will cry, kill, destroy & riot on the streets when a white officer kills a black but when it’s a black officer, those same exact loonies will act like it never happened, point a finger at you when you bring it up & try to justify whatever with some bullshit excuse. i am of course talking about the Tyre Nichols murder.
@Atlas_66
the ACAB mindset is indeed terrible & is really only held by those edgy tryhards who pretend to be tougher & smarter than they really are. not to mention they’re a bunch of hypocrites too & it isn’t like firefighters, school teachers, doctors & other professions can’t be filled with shitheads too. i never had much interest, support or sympathy for protesters but with all this going on, it ain’t hard to understand why.
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U mad?
LOL some vatnik on Twitter claimed an Abrams had already been destroyed in Ukraine with a photo of a burned out one. I didn’t know Ukraine had a desert.
But yeah it’s a photo from Iraq in 2017. Not to mention the Abrams isn’t even over there yet.
There’s been a few cases of vatniks reporting something had been destroyed when those items weren’t even in Ukraine yet. And the sad part is many will believe it.
Posted Report
Ereiam
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Monde de merde
@Galestorm
Firefighters, school teachers, doctors and other professions aren’t handed a legal monopoly on civilian violence which they abuse whenever they get the opportunity.
Also, since you apparently don’t follow the news, the cops who killed Tyre Nichols were all black, so there goes your argument.
Commune
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🚙
@Zincy
I think that example is flawed because there could conceivably be a green Apple in that box without stretching your disbelief
The belief in a deity or the supernatural in general, imo, it’s like saying not just there’s a green apple in that box, but that the green apple is a sentient being by the name of Dave and has the power to infinitely generate electricity
It defies disbelief because 1. It violates several scientific laws as we know it and 2. Such a claim is so huge, so monumental that it requires massive proof to even think that it could be real(to prove whether the foundations of what is said is even possible), let alone actually prove it
@Galestorm
People are absolutely mad over Tyre Nichols, it’s all the media will ever talk about now
What the fuck are you talking about
Also the black community has been talking about black officers beating down on black peoples for decades at this point, to quote NWA’s Fuck The Police:
But don’t let it be a black and a white one
Cause they’ll slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin’ out for the white cop
Galestorm
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Monocle Gentlesir
@Galestorm
Firefighters, school teachers, doctors and other professions aren’t handed a legal monopoly on civilian violence which they abuse whenever they get the opportunity.
Also, since you apparently don’t follow the news, the cops who killed Tyre Nichols were all black, so there goes your argument.
ok, 1. that doesn’t mean they aren’t capable of deliberately fucking someone over or (depending on what they do) killing someone or abusing their profession.
& 2. that’s exactly what i was talking about & i was very obviously aware that Tyre’s killers were all black & that was very much part of my point, something you didn’t seem to get from what i said (even if i didn’t make myself clear).
@Commune
what i was talking about is the overall hypocritical way the media reports on this matter. they’ll take a situation & give it as much coverage as possible but when the same thing happens just with minor differences (like the black cops being the ones to kill a black person instead of a white one), you kind of have to look yourself to see just how much attention it’s really getting. & when it does get talked about, there are quite a lot of mixed responses (sure you’d get mixed responses regardless but that’s not unexpected). that’s it.
& if they’ve been talking about it that much, they seem to only bring it up when it best suits them.
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( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡° )
@Galestorm
Bro what are you talking about. US news, except FOX NEWS, Breitbart, and other right wing outlets, have been covering Tyre’s murder non-stop, and there’ve been ample protests on the streets about it.
Posted Report
Galestorm
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Monocle Gentlesir
@The Smiling Pony
not really that surprising & although i’m not American (thankfully), i’m fully aware how much it’s being talked about. don’t left wing news channels & other publications (or any news channel) do the same thing when a similar situation if the officer was white? the point i was trying to make in my post was that i notice the responses to police brutality from each side is very one sided, like the right will cover it non-stop if the officer is black & the left will cover it if the officer isn’t black (if they do, i can’t imagine it’ll be that much). i know Twitter isn’t a valid source but i saw some leftists have been trying to make it about white supremacy (of course, it is Twitter after all) which is obvious nonsense.
my overall point is that police brutality is bad, regardless of the officer’s skin colour. & this rare instance should be evident to everyone no matter one’s political leaning.
out of curiosity, are the protests for Tyre worse than or about the same as in 2020?
The Smiling Pony
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( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡° )
The point i was trying to make in my post was that i notice the responses to police brutality from each side is very one sided, like the right will cover it non-stop if the officer is black & the left will cover it if the officer isn’t black
But that’s not what happens, at all? FOX NEWS and Breitbart and all those barely covered the actual murder at all and are now only talking about it in the framing of “Liberals on TWITTER are ANGRY” or “Tyre’s brother said MEAN THINGS about his murderers!” fluff pieces, while the actual event and its consequences are still covered front and center on every non-right wing media outlet.
And that’s how it’s been for practically every case for years…
out of curiosity, are the protests for Tyre worse than or about the same as in 2020?
So far there’s less violence (against random property), though there are a lot of pretty obvious simple reasons for that
  1. The footage was officially released after days of warnings, vs. caught by a citizen and seen by everyone immediately
  2. Cops and cities had time to prepare for any protests days ahead of time
  3. Protesters learned that the only thing that came out of the 2020 protests was right wing media portraying cities as being “sieged by antifa armies”, that Portland was completely burned to the ground (RIP), and an increase in police spending
Galestorm
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Monocle Gentlesir
@The Smiling Pony
i don’t watch Fox News (not heard of Breitbart) but that’s interesting to hear.
strange that protests aren’t as bad now but is good that it isn’t, & also cities being more prepared for if & when they do get bad (hopefully). nobody was at their best that year, as if the virus was wasn’t bad enough& forcing a whole load of lockdowns.
Portland really got the worst of it? ouch! (RIP indeed)
The Smiling Pony
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( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡° )
Portland really got the worst of it? ouch! (RIP indeed)
That was sarcasm. If you’d watched FOX NEWS (and similar channels / sites), you’d’ve been lead to believe the entire city was burned to the ground. vs a few garbage containers.
Paris sees worse riots every weekend than the US saw over that entire year.
Posted Report
Galestorm
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Monocle Gentlesir
@The Smiling Pony
well, that’s a relief at least. it’s been a while since then so i couldn’t quite remember. also, the tearing down of statues while not as violent, still didn’t help. 1 example coming to mind is the Colston statue in Bristol UK. i’m generally sceptical of any kind of news article i read (if i have the time) & rarely let their biases sink in until i see reason to believe them.
Paris riots are worse you say? & more than the US? that is interesting. France does have a history of that sort of thing dating back to the 13h century (i just looked that up).
CaptainXtra
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STOP KOSA!
Refresher on what the Right-Wing is focused on:
“Too many guns and overzealous police?”
“Nah, gotta do something about them Trans folks!”
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Sky funeral
If someone comes up to you with a box, and says that inside the box is a green cube, but refuses to provide any evidence to there being a green cube inside the box, there is not an equivalence in belief if you say that you don’t believe them.
You have no way of testing if there is, in fact, a green cube. And you can not prove a negative in absence of direct evidence to the contrary. It is up to the man making the assertion about the cube to provide evidence for the cubes existence.
Just as it is fundamentally up to theists to provide evidence that their deity exists if they intend to make people believe in them. Otherwise, it is perfectly logically sound to reject their assertion.
ok Wittgenstein but mine also has little goggly eyes on the shell and performs Mongolian throat singing
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