Unpopular opinion time

asdtroi

@Brass Beau
Discord messed with all of Equestria. Remember how he was remembered as having a heart as cold as stone? And yes, they did get to him, but only because they tried. And yes, he didn’t immedietly start trying to take over the world or attack when he was released but only because he had the Elements of Harmony pointed directly at him and he heard Celestia say that they want to reform him. Yes, he did more for his redemption then the trio, but only because he was given the chance and help to get that far. Remember, he did not want to reform nor did he even try to at first. He was forced into listening to Fluttershy. This is all something the trio never got. Do you think Discord would have ever reformed had Celestia not granted him that second chance and if Fluttershy didn’t help him?

Only Twilight apologized for not being able to teach her properly, only to get comforted by her students who said that she was just a bad seed. In no way did any of them try to convince her that there was a better way or offer her so much as a chance at redemption. Twilight basically said that she was wrong and gave up on her. Also, didn’t Discord also practically throw Celestia’s offer at redemption at her face when he mocked Fluttershy for trying to reform her? And a school of friendship isn’t a reformation program. Not when she went there for the purpose of her plan. In what way are history classes and whatever personal activities the Main 6 taught were supposed to change her mind about that? And no, they weren’t ready to go through the process and weren’t willing to forgive her. As I stated before, no one tried to talk her down, offer her a shot at redemption or in any way try to reform her. Everyone immedietly wrote her off without trying. And we have no proof that she’s a sociopath. If anything, her appearent enjoyment of helping others and the small moment where she felt bad for tricking the crusaders say otherwise.

And yes, Starlight got lucky with how almost everyone was immedietly willing to forgive her. If only a certain filly had that luxury.

Starlight and Discord chose vengeance over friendship and got rewarded for it.

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Brass Beau

Howdy from Shimmer Pope

@asdtroi
Okay, I gotta ask because something is amiss. When did they call her a lost cause? When did they say there was no hope for her? When did they decide she’s evil incarnate and nothing can be done? Because I rewatched a lot of MLP today and I did not see any of that. Cozy nearly wiped magic from existence, complained that she had to start over and tried to escape punishment before being thrown in prison. The school wasn’t for reformation. It was for learning. Cozy didn’t learn anything. A whole school and a whole society isn’t at fault for one kid thinking she’s better than the rest of the world and tries to take it over. Cozy gave up on herself being reformed. A couple of kids trying to make their principal feel better because of a problem child doesn’t mean the kid isn’t one. Cozy made her choices. She refused to take in the thoughts and ideas that didn’t match her own. She doesn’t care who she has to use or hurt to get her way. And, most importantly, she’s not dead. I’ve met people just like Cozy in real life. The ones that aren’t six feet under turned their life around when they decided “maybe I’m the problem” and went to fix that. Cozy tried to call real connections with others bullshit and got proven wrong by the simple fact that creatures coming together ruined her plans twice. She isn’t innocent. She didn’t want redemption. How much effort were the characters supposed to put into someone that refused to even listen to them? Discord listened. Starlight listened (the second time at least). The first step to reformation is communication and Cozy didn’t take that step.

And to quote the filly herself,
“Honesty? Loyalty? Generosity? Blah blah blah. I can make more friends without using any of them. And if I can’t do it here, I’ll do it somewhere else.” Those are not the words of someone seeking compassion or forgiveness. She doesn’t care about anyone but herself or anything but gaining power. She’d make a great politician or business mogul in our world. But that shit don’t fly in Equestria.

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asdtroi

@Brass Beau
I didn’t say they call her one, I said that they wrote her off as one. The reason I said that is because first, they in no way attempted to even try reforming her when she was defeated despite having Discord, Starlight and Stygian’s example, the fact that they did not give her any sort of trial or normal imprisonment and just tossed her into Tartarus next to the guy they imprisoned for a thousend years without any plan to ever have him released and third, the fact that they happily went on with their live afterwards for what was presumably months without so much as thinking about her nor mentioning any plan to reform her in the future. Everything points to them giving up on her. And yes, she tried to escape punishment but again, so did Discord, who didn’t seem very comlient in getting restoned or stoned in the first place.

And I never said that the school itself was at fault for her actions (although some of their security and management is questionable), but neither was all of Equestria at fault for Discord’s actions, who thought the nation was his personal playground not caring about who got hurt in the process. And yes, Cozy was not sorry and did not want to be reformed but again, neither did Discord. I never said that she was innocent or that she did no wrong, but the fact still remains that she was treated unfairly compared to others and no attempt to rehabilitate her was ever made. Everything you said about Cozy can also be said about Discord and he was an old guy with plenty of years to think. Cozy was a stubburn kid. Reformed villains never took the first step themselves. They always needed help and coercing into doing it.

“Being turned to stone doesn’t keep me from hearing every word Celestia says. Although I admit it makes rolling my eyes a challenge.” These are not the words of someone feeling sorry for what they did and seeking to improve themselves. He didn’t care about who changing his ways nor did he care about who he might have hurt in his rampage. He only cared about his own personal satisfaction, but Celestia decided that he deserved a second chance and Fluttershy worked hard to get him on the road to redemption. It’s a shame Cozy never got that kind of treatment.

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Brass Beau

Howdy from Shimmer Pope

“Being turned to stone doesn’t keep me from hearing every word Celestia says.”

If that’s true then step one can be taken. I find the idea of someone reading the girls book aloud in front of the statutes everyday rather amusing. And being tossed in prison, or stoned, seems to be a normal punishment for causing a global catastrophe. Starlight did get a pass on that one since she didn’t actually destroy the world. Not sure how someone could be convicted for something that didn’t technically happen. Plus, we don’t know how long she was actually in Tartarus but Discord likely kept her release a secret. Yeah, Discord gets forgiven a lot but I’d imagine it takes quite a bit more forgiveness to teach Cthulu morality than is needed to teach a child that. And besides teaming up with Tirek he always acted with good intentions.

Anyways, Cozy has a good chance at redemption, now. It may have taken petrification to get to that point but there really isn’t a manual on this sort of thing.

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gingerninja666

Kaze ni Nare

They literally asked Cozy why she did what she did. Do you think they would’ve thrown Cozy in prison had Cozy given Twi anything to work with?

Twi is a bleeding heart. Discord and Starlight weren’t rewarded for going off to get revenge. They were rewarded for showing any kind of vulnerability.

I guess my question is, what did people want the Mane 6 to do with Cozy? I know people want them to “give her a chance” but what does that mean practically speaking? What could Twi teach Cozy that she doesn’t already know? Starlight’s point of view could be proven wrong. Twilight showed her empathy. Discord had someone treating him with kindness for the first time ever. How do you prove Cozy wrong? What is there to empathize with?

Discord was also manipulating Fluttershy and taking advantage of her kindness at first, and yet it managed to affect him all the same.

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asdtroi

@Brass Beau
Discord learned nothing from his time as a statue now did he? He also caused a global catastrophe twice after he was released and wasn’t punished for it. And Starlight did come about as close to the trio to destroying the world. The fact that only Twilight and Spike saw it didn’t change that fact.

We know that Cozy must have been or was intended to be in Tartarus for a while based on Tirek clawing lines in his cell and Cozy once saying that they’ve been couped up at the cave for months during which no one even bothered to check up on her. Discord is not cthulu nor some alien being with a different mind. he is a functioning adult who can percieve and feel things the same way others can. If anything, the child should have been given more leeway then him. And the fact that he acted with good intentions in s9 doesn’t change the fact that he was given multiple second chances by that point. A luxury that the trio never got.

And as Discord said: “together forever”. Doesn’t seem like that good of a chance.

@gingerninja666
Did Discord give anything for Celestia and Fluttershy to work with? He showed no redeeming qualities prior to being released. And what’s more vulnerable then a literal child?

If anything, the fact that she told Twilight her belief that friendship is power is already something to work with. She just had to fix that belief and try to figure out why Cozy came to that conclusion and why she wanted power so badly. It’s all a matter of actually trying and investigating further. Maybe give her a reason to actually want to change for the better. Not everyone has the same problems, after all. There are multiple fanworks that give plenty realistic ways to reform her a lot of which don’t involve just leaving her as a statue.

Discord got better because Fluttershy focused specifically on reforming him and didn’t give up on doing so. Cozy Glow was given up on after ger first defeat.

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gingerninja666

Kaze ni Nare

@asdtroi

Fluttershy was about to give up though. Discord didn’t formally turn good until she stopped trying. It was the guilt of losing someone who was being nice to him for the first time that finally got through to him.

Discord is not like Cozy. He tried to manipulate Fluttershy, assuming she was an idiot, and yet the simple act of her standing up for him affected him. Cozy no sold everything anyone ever did for her and cackled like a mad woman when asked for her motivations.

Like, I’m fine with people thinking they were too harsh on her, I pretty much agree, but I don’t really see the cast being hypocrites when Cozy is not like any other villain we’ve seen before.

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Spinny

Resident Spin Fetishist

@Brass Beau

They all but said there was no hope for her when they dumped her into the worst prison in the nation where she didn’t belong in the first place, given that it is reserved ONLY for beings who are able to pose a threat to Equestria with the raw power they possess and Cozy has no raw power, with zero due process, with no one making sure she’s fed or watered on a daily basis, with no chance for ever getting out again, with no consideration for the fact that she’s a child without a fully-developed mind, with no consideration for her parents, with no personal anguish on their parts (especially from Twilight) for the fact that they hadn’t reached out to her, with no consideration that if a legitimate sociopath like Starlight could change, then maybe they shouldn’t resign Cozy to the grim fate of dying in prison after no one offers her any ability to survive there whatsoever.

Cozy was given up on at the drop of a hat. Even if she refused to reform (or even just fake it, like Starlight could have easily been doing), Tartarus was the absolute last place she should have been sent if they were actually interested in offering her help that she didn’t get while at the school. I mean, hell, it was a pretty huge oversight on Twilight’s part that she apparently never inquired about Cozy’s parents or anything else her home life, which is something she obviously should have done for a student attending her school…and serving as her personal assistant.

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DoctorWTF

Anyways, Cozy has a good chance at redemption, now. It may have taken petrification to get to that point but there really isn’t a manual on this sort of thing.

It certainly could be interesting for Twilight and the others to look into it. After all, it’d go against everything they stand for to not at least try to rehabilitate Cozy. The big question is: How? As gingerninja666 said, she’s already been treated with the utmost kindness by everyone around her and taught every friendship lesson that Twilight would have to offer, yet the idea of caring about anyone but herself is still completely alien to her.

I guess it might help if therapists were a thing in Equestria.

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Cosmas-the-Explorer

Explorer in Training

I like Friendship is Witchcraft. I don’t care what all those Youtube reviewers say. I love moments like “Watch how far I can slide.” or Princess Luna in space camp. It’s weird and quirky and stupid and I love it for those reasons.

It has the humor of an edgy immature 14 year old child and I love it for that.

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asdtroi

@gingerninja666

Fluttershy was about to give up though. Discord didn’t formally turn good until she stopped trying. It was the guilt of losing someone who was being nice to him for the first time that finally got through to him.

But she didn’t. She stayed persistant and dedicated specifically to reforming him up on to that point while fully knowing who he was and what he was capable of.

Discord is not like Cozy. He tried to manipulate Fluttershy, assuming she was an idiot, and yet the simple act of her standing up for him affected him. Cozy no sold everything anyone ever did for her and cackled like a mad woman when asked for her motivations.

Yes, Fluttershy stood up for Discord, but she also knew that he was a villain. Cozy never did get that. Throughout her time at the school, no one knew her true intentions and who she really was. It was all just a persona. When the jig was up and everyone knew she was a villain no one tried to reform her or anything of the sort. And no, she didn’t just cackle like mad. She actually explained her motivations. She could have lied and act apologetic, but she didn’t. No one tried to teach her any better at that point. Standing up for someone you think is just a normal filly isn’t the same as standing up for a villain in the hopes of reforming them.

I don’t really see the cast being hypocrites when Cozy is not like any other villain we’ve seen before.

In many ways she kind of is though. Her actions weren’t any better or worse then any other major villain. The thing is that not once did anyone try to reform her despite her being in a position where it was safely possible to make an attempt. The only other villain who shares this trait is Tirek and even with him he at least had Scorpan trying to talk him out of it (although considering how long ago that happened, that wouldn’t matter as much any more).

@DoctorWTF
Again, all that kindness was extanded to someone they essentially didn’t know. Now that they know everything about her it could be easy to come up with the best things to say/ask during counciling sessions and find a way to tell her why her philosophy of friendship being power was wrong. She can’t hide behind her persona and succeed when those she talks to knows better. Rusty Bucket is a prime example of that and he never even heard of her until they met in Frenemies.

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gingerninja666

Kaze ni Nare

@asdtroi

From Discord’s perspective she absolutely gave up. Remember, she literally yelled “I’m not your friend!” and threw away her skis? That was what tipped Discord over the edge. The feeling of having lost the one person who was being nice to him got him to stop all the bad things he was doing.

I think a lot of people interpret Cozy’s misunderstanding of friendship a lot more… innocently than I do, I guess. I didn’t read it as “she misunderstood what friendship meant and that lead to her having a lust for power.” I read it as “She always wanted power, and that led to her misunderstanding what friendship meant.”

Someone like Starlight consciously believed that her misguided view of friendship was the best not only for herself but for everyone else. Cozy only cared about herself. She was starting from a position of “how can this benefit me?” and it warped how she sees the world. I don’t think it’s neccesarily a given that Twi and the gang could’ve befriended her.

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asdtroi

@gingerninja666
Yes, but up to that point she was obviously quite persistant despite again, knowing exactly who he was. It’s that fact that probably got to him. I don’t think it would have been as powerful as say, a pony being friendly to him while he was disguised as one. It is also worth noting that Fluttershy kept his promise to not repetrify him despite her friends asking her to do it. Again, when you compare this to Cozy its not exactly the same.

I didn’t read it as “she misunderstood what friendship meant and that lead to her having a lust for power.” I read it as “She always wanted power, and that led to her misunderstanding what friendship meant.”

I’d say both of those have very similar meanings and both apply to her. Simply wanting power isn’t a bad thing in itself and I feel like thats a better goal then doing bad things for fun. Either way she still misinterpreted friendship and even with your interpretation we don’t know why she wanted power and she could still be steared towards more legal and less destructive ways to get it (ie. a lawyer or a businesswomen). She already knows that friendship is powerfull so that may be something to start working from.

With the way Starlight acted towards her townsponies I don’t think that ger goals were entirely altruistic and even after that, revenge isn’t exactly a selfless goal. And even if Cozy cared about herself, that didn’t make Starlight’s actions any less potentially destructive then Cozy’s. Yes, she started off with the wrong attitude, but there is no proof that it can’t be fixed especially considering that she’s still a child with an impressionable mind.

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AC97

@gingerninja666

It seemed self-evident that her motives for wanting power were nothing like Sygian’s, or Nightmare Moon’s, or Starlight’s. She doesn’t really need validation, unlike all of them.

The fifth and sixth things she ever says are:

Cozy Glow: But why would you help me? What’s in it for you?
Sweetie Belle: That’s how friendship works. When you give from your heart, you don’t expect anything back.
Cozy Glow: Well, golly, if you really mean it…

She’s just not like Discord, in that before the betrayal, she was annoying nopony (he had a full 6/7 glaring at him in the S4 finale before anything happened); they all seemed to like her.

She spent what seemed to be several months gaining their trust, and they seemed to have confided in her at least once, judging by her mocking Fluttershy, and her commenting on how stressed out Twilight is at another point.

When Discord betrayed them ~~assuming it wasn’t all along a scheme to get that Box open to unlock Rainbow Power since he’s a Trickster Mentor if that was the meaning behind the wink to Celestia~~, it was because he thought he could have friendship and power. When he was betrayed, he seemed to care far, far more about Tirek not being a friend than him losing his powers. Cozy never showed such a side, or at least, it was never genuine. She took actual initiative in betrayal, too, by contrast.

She doesn’t care who she hurts by draining magic. She doesn’t care she almost killed others with that field trip she helped arrange (and getting Starlight out of the way might’ve 100% been the entire idea), she doesn’t care about trapping her “friends” in Tartarus, she doesn’t care about sending others to another dimension to possibly die.

I kind of wonder, if the conversations would’ve been any different at all if the original plans went through, and Cozy Glow got the Tree of Harmony destroyed in the S8 finale, because who else would’ve caused it there? It would’ve given more of a payoff to moments like this, and What Lies Beneath.

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AC97

In regards to Tirek, it really is a shame that he seems to only really be properly effective at the “creepy presence” factor when he’s at his lowest state of power, as in S4 and S8. He defaults to “high-powered menace” as he grows strong, even if he is still generally the smartest one.

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gingerninja666

Kaze ni Nare

@asdtroi

Discord didn’t know that Fluttershy knew all that though. He was halfheartedly pretending to be good around her because he thought she was a moron and he was easily tricking her. At least, that’s the impression I got.

So when her kindness starts to get through to him, it happens even though Discord thinks he’s tricking her.

Starlight’s motives are for sure selfish. She wanted to create a world where she could never be hurt again. When her townsfolk are turned against her, one of the first things she blurts out is:

“They thought they could come to MY village and mess with MY life?!”

But… I believe that Starlight consciously bought her own bullshit, even if she really doesn’t deep down. Which is a different mens rea to Cozy, who knows exactly what she wants. She doesn’t even have the shame to lie to herself about her motives. She just nakedly wants power, and openly disregards anyone else in her pursuit of it.

That’s why I always say I don’t see much for Twi to work with. Maybe some other people outside of the show could see something, but that’s never been how Twi redeems people. With Twi, she has to see something. Some faltering of their persona or some emotion she can latch onto. The second Trixie showed even a hint of sadness about losing Starlight, her feelings towards her softened. The second she saw how genuinely hurt Starlight was about her village and her past, she APOLOGISED to Starlight for needing to take that away from her. After a whole two parter of dancing around the issue of Stygian maybe being misunderstood, the very moment she sees that Stygian is struggling inside the Pony of Shadows she dives head first INTO the thing.

Cozy is so gallingly impressed with her own villainy.

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Latecomer

@AC97
It’s his own major villainous flaw - an endless hunger for something which makes him feel better, but destroys his mind.

As for the whole “Cozy reform” discussion - I think the matter of whether it worked is a whole separate one as to whether they should have tried, and we can condemn them for writing her off so quickly even while admitting she’s probably not fixable.

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asdtroi

She’s just not like Discord, in that before the betrayal, she was annoying nopony (he had a full 6/7 glaring at him in the S4 finale before anything happened); they all seemed to like her.

Because he was genuently annoying to others at times and because everyone knew that he was a villan beforehand. Still, he had Fluttershy and to a smaller extent, Celestia supporting him. As for Cozy, everyone thought she was some random filly. She didn’t seem to have a Fluttershy or Discord figure trying to help her when she got figured out.

She spent what seemed to be several months gaining their trust, and they seemed to have confided in her at least once, judging by her mocking Fluttershy, and her commenting on how stressed out Twilight is at another point.

As stated before, the months gaining trust was all an act. No one tried helping her once that act was over wheras with Discord, Fluttershy knew full well that he was a dangerous villain when she helped him. And as for gaining trust, she’s a filly. She can’t overpower her enemies with massive magical power so she had to be more subdle.

When Discord betrayed them it was because he thought he could have friendship and power. When he was betrayed, he seemed to care far, far more about Tirek not being a friend than him losing his powers. Cozy never showed such a side, or at least, it was never genuine. She took actual initiative in betrayal, too, by contrast.

And he betrayed his only friend up to that point for his own self interest for a guy he probably just met. It is also worth noting that that was after a significant time after he got a second chance and Fluttershy’s help. Something which again, Cozy never got.

She doesn’t care.

Neither did Discord. He was remembered with a heart as cold as stone, after all.

The thing is that every villain, especially Discord reformed/felt remorsefull/made attempts to better themselves because they were given help specifically to get them to that point. Cozy meanwhile, was recieved nothing of the sorts. Had any of the reformed villains been treated like her, I doupt they would have ever reformed.

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gingerninja666

Kaze ni Nare

@Latecomer

I’m not sure if this counts as a double standard or not, but the discourse around Starlight is often criticized for speculating too much when it comes to her motives and backstory. People call Starlight a crazy person because all we see of her backstory is the breakup with Sunburst. We don’t know if there’s anything else to it that shaped who she is, but if you were to speculate on it, some people might shoot it down because it wasn’t “in the show.”

However, with Cozy, a lot more people seem perfectly willing to speculate that she totally would’ve turned good if given the chance, or that she must’ve had a completely logical backstory that contextualized her actions… even though none of it is “in the show” either.

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asdtroi

@gingerninja666

Discord didn’t know that Fluttershy knew all that though. He was halfheartedly pretending to be good around her because he thought she was a moron and he was easily tricking her. At least, that’s the impression I got.

He was twisting her house, disturbing her pets and being rude to her friends. He clearily saw all the effort she put into trying to reform him otherwise he wouldn’t have grown to enjoy his time with her.

I believe that Starlight consciously bought her own bullshit, even if she really doesn’t deep down. Which is a different mens rea to Cozy, who knows exactly what she wants. She doesn’t even have the shame to lie to herself about her motives. She just nakedly wants power, and openly disregards anyone else in her pursuit of it.

If she brought her own lies she wouldn’d have attacked her villagers when it was over, now would she? And I don’t see how one lying to herself made them any better. They still did equally bad things and came back for revenge after they failed.

That’s why I always say I don’t see much for Twi to work with. Maybe some other people outside of the show could see something, but that’s never been how Twi redeems people. With Twi, she has to see something. Some faltering of their persona or some emotion she can latch onto. The second Trixie showed even a hint of sadness about losing Starlight, her feelings towards her softened. The second she saw how genuinely hurt Starlight was about her village and her past, she APOLOGISED to Starlight for needing to take that away from her. After a whole two parter of dancing around the issue of Stygian maybe being misunderstood, the very moment she sees that Stygian is struggling inside the Pony of Shadows she dives head first INTO the thing.

And she gained experience from that which should have helped given her the hint to try and find why Cozy wanted power. If you recall she never tried to explain why Cozy was wrong about friendship being power. She only told him that she was wrong. Theres your faltering persona: Cozy’s misunderstanding of friendship. She never tried to latch on and correct it and maybe give Cozy a different, less destructive way to gain power. And even then, she seemed pretty happy to just leave Cozy to rot in Tartarus instead of trying to find out more about her or find someone who could help her. Celestia didn’t make herself help Discord, after all and he didn’t have anything to latch on. And this doesn’t just go for Twilight. No one tried so much as to suggest helping Cozy despite her being an easily captured, powerless filly. I already stated beforehand things that Twilight could latch on and start with. It’s all a matter of trying.

Cozy is so gallingly impressed with her own villainy.

So was Discord.

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DoctorWTF

@DoctorWTF
Again, all that kindness was extanded to someone they essentially didn’t know. Now that they know everything about her it could be easy to come up with the best things to say/ask during counciling sessions and find a way to tell her why her philosophy of friendship being power was wrong. She can’t hide behind her persona and succeed when those she talks to knows better. Rusty Bucket is a prime example of that and he never even heard of her until they met in Frenemies.

That was kind of my point - to have the slightest chance of actually rehabilitating Cozy, they’d have to look beyond the standard “power of friendship” type stuff we’ve seen them preach in canon. Which could make for an intriguing story.

@gingerninja666

I think a lot of people interpret Cozy’s misunderstanding of friendship a lot more… innocently than I do, I guess. I didn’t read it as “she misunderstood what friendship meant and that lead to her having a lust for power.” I read it as “She always wanted power, and that led to her misunderstanding what friendship meant.”

I had always assumed that Cozy was fully aware of what friendship meant on an intellectual level - she just had no interest in real companionship (or anything more than getting others to do her bidding).

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Background Pony #6071

Cozy, tirek and crysalis don’t necessarily equal irredeemably evil but they get pretty darn close, especially Cozy. I genuinely believe she is a psycho in training. Even if friendship was explained to her well and offered in earnest again, I genuinely don’t think she would truly understand it or accept it. She uses everything and everyone for her personal gain and that one genuine spark of friendship we saw between her and the rest of the villains wasn’t nurtured and died off as a result. I wish we had a cozy backstory but maybe its better we didn’t. It would only serve to generate more sympathy for her when I think the writers wanted to introduce a character that exemplified that maybe friendship doesn’t work on everyone, even someone as innocent looking as a kid.

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Background Pony #7CFD

@Background Pony #6071
We don’t know if Cozy is a psycho or is irredeemably evil or can’t accept true friendship because no one tried to reform her. If she’s a psycho in training then its best to help her as quickly as possible. Sadly, Twilight and her friends are unwilling to help a child in need like they did with others.

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gingerninja666

Kaze ni Nare

If she brought her own lies she wouldn’d have attacked her villagers when it was over, now would she? And I don’t see how one lying to herself made them any better. They still did equally bad things and came back for revenge after they failed.

You say that, but she only tried to attack her townsfolk in the heat of the moment, when emotions were running high, and instantly pivoted back to acting like she was doing them a favour even though the jig was entirely up at that point. What Starlight thinks and what she feels are different things a lot of the time. You could say that internal confusion inherently gives Twilight something to attack, unlike Cozy who was completely uniform in what she wanted. Also, I guess the weight of their actions comes down to how I view justice personally. To me, Starlight and Cozy having equivalent actions doesn’t matter much because of the difference in their motives. You might say a dead person is a dead person either way, but if one person did it in a fit of anger and felt terrible afterward, and the other danced down the street cackling about how awesome doing it was, I’m going to think that one is more capable of being reformed than the other.

If you recall she never tried to explain why Cozy was wrong about friendship being power. She only told him that she was wrong. Theres your faltering persona: Cozy’s misunderstanding of friendship.

That’s not what I mean when I say “faltering persona” though. I don’t mean that the character makes a mistake. I mean that they show a hint of something that lets Twilight see through the mask they’ve created for themselves to something she may be able to redeem. With Starlight, that faltering was stuff like her genuine hurt at the loss of her village, or her reaction to the ashlands timeline. It let Twilight know that Starlight was a hurt pony lashing out at the world. Cozy, even if she was wrong about friendship, like I said earlier, that doesn’t adress her primary motive of wanting power, and the kind of stuff she’s willing to do to get it. Twilight’s teachings probably didn’t give her the idea to manipulate and lock up her “friends” for the sake of amassing personal power, or teach her that she should commit continent spanning acts of terrorism with the intent of making any opposition to her powerless. Her misunderstanding of friendship is a byproduct of how she sees the world, not the cause of it, and how she sees the world showed no signs of buckling at the end of School Raze. Cozy’s presumption that Friendship is power technically not wrong. It is, especially in a world like Equestria. What Cozy missed is that there’s more to life than power and the pursuit of it, and I don’t think she shows Twilight that she would be capable of accepting that.

He was twisting her house, disturbing her pets and being rude to her friends. He clearily saw all the effort she put into trying to reform him otherwise he wouldn’t have grown to enjoy his time with her.

Isn’t that kind of a circular argument? Apologies if it’s not, I’m still trying to get the hang of fallacies and the like.

A. Discord was only moved by Fluttershy’s kindness because he didn’t think he was tricking her.

B. Discord must not have thought he was tricking her because her kindness moved him.

Posted 3 years ago Report
Edited 3 years ago

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Background Pony #6071

@Background Pony #7CFD
There’s no cure for a psychopath. The best hope is that you teach them to control their urges in public to better blend into society, not to help them but to protect society from them so no one around them gets hurt. If Cozy really is a psycho, the only thing to be done is protect everyone else from her. The stone prison may just be the best place for that if pony hell couldn’t hold her.

Posted 3 years ago Report

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