rainbowdash42

Oh cool, I didn’t know we could conjure events in and out of existence.
 
Does that mean that if I wish really hard, S10E01 will premiere on Saturday?
 
Luster Dawn: So, even though everything changed and you moved away from your friends, you didn’t grow apart? And this is the Council of Friendship? That’s what you’re all doing here?
Future Rainbow Dash: Duh! This time every moon.
Future Applejack: [chuckles] What she means is this is how we’ve been rulin’ together.
Future Rarity: And how we’ve continued to face every problem and threat to Equestria over the years.
Future Pinkie Pie: But mostly, it’s how we keep in touch. No matter how busy life gets.
Future Twilight Sparkle: Sometimes friendships can be hard, and it takes work to maintain them. But without friends, things can be a lot harder.
 
…how does your implication hold? There’s even a bit after the incompetent coronation where they all come together and resolve to remain friends. That’s the whole reason for the Council.
 
The episode implies that the friends broke up in the first and second acts precisely to lead on the viewer, until the reveal. This is a very common storytelling tactic, particularly in episodes told like this one. Heck, I think a similar strategy was even used in the Snowfall Frost episode (I don’t care to read the whole transcript to find it, sorry).
 
And if you listen to the characters’ explanations as to why they weren’t acting worried about losing their friendship, they were just trying to cover it up or be strong, for Twilight’s sake. You can argue that this point was poorly written, but it’s right there in the text:
 
Twilight Sparkle: I tried to talk to you all about how I was feeling, but you seemed more worried about what you had to do for the coronation.
Spike: It’s true. I was there.
Rarity: I suppose it gave us something else to focus on.
Applejack: I knew you were worried about everything changin’. I guess I thought if I made it seem like everything was okay, it would be.
Fluttershy: I was just trying to make you feel better. That way I wouldn’t feel so terrible.
 
Again, with all due respect, I think you’re (intentionally or not) twisting the episode to your own ends. Occam’s Razor – the simplest explanation is usually the best one. And the simplest explanation is to take the episode at face value.
StormsparkPegasus
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

Screw that, the time skip is ignored, didn’t happen. I will NOT accept anything in that epilogue, now or ever. I don’t give a yay what the showrunners say is or isn’t “canon”. I do not accept is as canon, and I never will. There is noone in this world with the power to do that. So I don’t have to deal with “it happened” because I say it didn’t. We aren’t saying the episode SAID the friends broke up. We are saying that, due to the incompetent writing, they implied it (fwiw I believe this part wasn’t intentional, just incompetence). What actually happened was “let’s show them all being incompetent for slapstick comedy” and didn’t think of the implications. But the way the episode contrasts the “future” where they are nothing but nostalgic for their friendship, alongside the “past” where they are acting incompetent and passive agressive toward each other, it HEAVILY implies the friendship broke up, regardless of what the episode said. It was out of character as hell. NONE of them would’ve done that. The idea behind “end the brony fandom” is “show time skip in the distant future, tell everyone they need to move on”. I’m not moving on. The mane 6 are still young and have their whole lives ahead of them. And they would be insulted at the way they were portrayed.
rainbowdash42

As a random side note – it seems like a lot of people think that “loving the characters” means that you’re allowed to think that they’d do whatever you personally think they would do. I actually see this very differently.
 
I think respecting a fictional character means that, just like a real life sentient being, they might do things that you don’t expect or like sometimes. They might have qualities you dislike. But you’ve got to take the good with the bad, and appreciate them for who they are.
 
Doesn’t mean you can’t complain about things being out of character. But those complaints should come from previous knowledge of the character, not your personal preference about what they would do.
 
And side note to the side note – omi, I love the artwork! My personal headcanon is that this is totally something she would do in her youth, but as she grew older (and perhaps lost a little hair) she came to appreciate the historical windswept styles that her predecessors in the Wonderbolts preferred.
rainbowdash42

Oh, come on, folks. Y’all are acting a bit over the top here.
 
What happened in the show, by definition, is canon. That’s what canon means. There’s no bright line here like in Star Wars where people can reasonably argue that Y doesn’t fully connect to the previously established canon in X, justifying a ‘division’ between two linked canons. This is all one season, produced in the same time span, with a smooth continuation from the previous one, and just because you don’t like how the last episode(s) happened doesn’t mean you can deny it happened.
 
Putting that aside – if in fact you don’t like how it happened, that’s totally your prerogative. Nobody’s forcing you to like it, or saying you’re not allowed to write fan-fiction as if S09E26 never happened. Heck, one of my favorite ongoing fanfics takes place in a universe where the season 2 premiere ended differently! And there are plenty of episodes I didn’t care for over the course of the series – my biggest objection, for example, might have been to Tanks for the Memories, where they portray Dash as pretty far outside her typical character imo. But you know what? The episode happened, and I just have to deal with that.
 
Anyone who liked the episode either 1) doesn’t take the characters seriously to begin with, or 2) has what amounts to Stockholm Syndrome.
 
I get that you’re angry over this, @StormsparkPegasus , but that’s out of line. These characters have changed my life, and the unique writing that brought each one to life is what carried me through this series even when I wasn’t a huge fan of a particular episode. So do I have “Stockholm Syndrome” just because I think that the finale is a beautiful testament to the fact that the bonds you forge live on, if you just put in a little work?
 
(And your theory that they are “no longer friends” and just meet up out of nostalgia is, with all due respect, complete hogwash if you actually pay attention to the text. They specifically set out to meet every moon, exactly because they wanted to maintain the friendships they formed. They rule together, if indirectly, because they value each other. Nothing supports your claim, but if that’s what you need/want to believe, feel free to make content accordingly.)
 
@Atlas_66 , @Dashi , you both seem to think that the finale was intended as an “eff you” to the fans. I think if you opened your eyes a bit, and looked around at what the episode and the show-runners actually said, you might find that what they actually set out to do is very different than what you think. I read this episode in many positive ways:
 
  1. Spike changing his mind about the Power Ponies comic is an explicit message that just because you’re getting older, and things are changing, doesn’t mean you have to let go of what you love. Which is also the lesson that Twilight learns about her friends, and a lesson that the writers are trying to tell us: just because the show is ending, doesn’t mean you have to let it go.
     
  2. Maintaining a friendship is, indeed, difficult, but not impossible. And it’s entirely worthwhile. This is why the characters are aged up and we get the sense that a significant amount of time has passed – to demonstrate the strength of bonds that are properly maintained.
     
  3. The mere existence of the episode is an indication that the writers wanted the characters to live on with us. They could have very easily ended the show with The Ending of the End – the final defeat of the only surviving villains, and harmony created between Equestria and the lands beyond. This episode is an acknowledgement that the big, fancy action set pieces and world-threatening problems is not all that made this universe special – it’s the characters and relationships which are the foundation.
     
  4. There is so much negative space to be filled with the time skip. If you choose to write a fanfic that lives in the universe where the time skip happened, you have great places to jump off from. How did the romantic pairing(s) get together? Who has immortality – if just Twilight, does she try to grant it to her friends somehow? How did Sandbar and Yona end up working at Rarity’s boutique? What shenanigans do the CMC get up to as teachers? What kind of changes and growing pains did Equestria go through to accommodate all the many species that now live there? And Luster Dawn… well, she’s a blank canvas to do more or less whatever you want to, and we got a glimpse of some potential friends of hers that you can flesh out into real characters. Jim said that they left a lot up to interpretation – in particular the RDxAJ relationship – specifically because they want the fans to be able to expound on them and come up with their own theories.
     
    With these ideas as plausible as yours – and even more so if you read the public statements and leaked documents from the show runners – it’s pretty poor form to attribute malice against us to the show runners. It’s one thing to not like the episode. It’s another to assume it was created maliciously.
     
    I can’t believe the reason I finally made an account here is to defend a show… on an image board… for that show. This certainly not what I was planning to do with my time this afternoon.
Background Pony #25F3
Based.
 
 
@Atlas_66  
Also based.
Atlas_66
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Verified Pegasus - Show us your gorgeous wings!
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
The Magic of Friendship Grows - For helping others attend the 2020 Community Collab
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
Dream Come True! - Participated in the MLP 9th Anniversary Event
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under their artist tag
The Power of Love - Given to a publicly verified artist with an image under their artist’s tag that has reached 1000 upvotes
Artist -

🍞
@StormsparkPegasus  
The thing is that the new screenwriters who are paid a salary, they did not watch the first seasons of the series, and they don’t understand the characters.  
As a result, in one episode the characters behave naturally, in another episode the scriptwriter writes a different behavior to the character.  
Jim Miller unfortunately gave the go-ahead for the 26th series, it’s a pity.  
In season 9 there are episodes that I liked, but who didn’t like it, it all depends on the scriptwriters.))  
Different screenwriters write different episodes.  
But the director of the series should control all this so that there are connections and logic of the narration.
StormsparkPegasus
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@StormsparkPegasus
I’m frustrated by some artists who draw art for the 26th series, it’s sad that they support it :(
And I left the Easter egg on the table in the form of an inscription that not everyone will notice.
full
 
Me too. Anyone who liked the episode either 1) doesn’t take the characters seriously to begin with, or 2) has what amounts to Stockholm Syndrome. Just like there are people that defend EA lootboxes and casino mechanics in games. But that’s awesome. I consider episode 26 one of the worst abominations I have EVER seen on TV. EVER. The only other episode of any show I can think of that is in the same league of terribleness and middle-finger-to-the-characters-and-fandomness is the Star Trek Enterprise finale, and that WAS a deliberate middle finger of the producers to the fans (they had been fired from Star Trek and wanted to give one last big middle finger on their way out). While I can’t say that, objectively, The Last Problem (BOY they named that episode right), is WORSE than the Enterprise finale, SUBJECTIVELY it is. Here’s why. Enterprise was a decent show, but not a great show. It was 6-7/10. Some episodes got up to 9/10 but the show overall was about 7/10. Average. Not terrible, but not great. So when there is a really bad episode, it never gets any worse than “Well, that was disappointing”. But FIM was SOLID 10/10 for most of its run, with season 8 being 8.5-9/10. When you have a terrible episode, especially a finale that spits on the mane characters and gives them a gigantic middle finger, it hurts a lot more than in a show like Enterprise. But yes, I agree that there are a LOT of worthwhile episodes in season 3. Even up into season 8 there are only a small number of “bad” episodes. But as I said, bad is relative. The previous “bad” episodes were “well that wasn’t great”. They’re rare though, and even those “bad” episodes had at least some worthwhile character moments. For instance, Secrets and Pies. Dash does NOT hate pie, that’s ridiculous, but if you roll with it, OTHER than the premise being ridiculous, she doesn’t really ACT out of character most of the time. In 9x26 EVERYONE is completely out of character for the entire episode, and it alternates between slapstick holding the idiot ball comedy, to the implication that they are no longer friends in the “future” and have “moved on” (subtle wink wink nudge nudge meta hint that ‘the fandom is over and you should all move on’), and only meet up because they are nostalgic for their past friendship. While that’s not STATED, actions are louder than words and that’s what’s shown and implied. It was a deliberate attempt to either end the brony fandom or “force” them to move on (probably to G5). Had the opposite effect for everyone I know, my circle of friends have all chosen to ignore it and say “that never happened”. It’s inspired some of us to make the worthwhile ending the characters deserve. I always thought I would be sad when the show ended. But I wasn’t, because this was so bad. To quote a character in Mass Effect 2: “Rage is one hell of an anaesthetic.”
Background Pony #3395
@Atlas_66  
We should get people together to make a list of the worthwhile character focused episodes past season 3. There are a fair amount of them that have nothing to do with the things that people generally stopped watching for and that actually have good character moments.
Atlas_66
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Verified Pegasus - Show us your gorgeous wings!
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
The Magic of Friendship Grows - For helping others attend the 2020 Community Collab
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
Dream Come True! - Participated in the MLP 9th Anniversary Event
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under their artist tag
The Power of Love - Given to a publicly verified artist with an image under their artist’s tag that has reached 1000 upvotes
Artist -

🍞
@StormsparkPegasus  
I’m frustrated by some artists who draw art for the 26th series, it’s sad that they support it :(
 
And I left the Easter egg on the table in the form of an inscription that not everyone will notice.  
full
Atlas_66
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Verified Pegasus - Show us your gorgeous wings!
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
The Magic of Friendship Grows - For helping others attend the 2020 Community Collab
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
Dream Come True! - Participated in the MLP 9th Anniversary Event
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under their artist tag
The Power of Love - Given to a publicly verified artist with an image under their artist’s tag that has reached 1000 upvotes
Artist -

🍞
@Dashi  
You say everything correctly, I agree that you write, directly read my thoughts.
 
in fact, I would advise you to watch season 4, there are a lot of cools episodes.  
I also advise you to watch the series with Moondancer, she is one of my favorites.  
(season 5 episode 12)  
full
StormsparkPegasus
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@Atlas_66
I don’t feel entitled to say much, because I’ve stopped watching the show around season 3, but this is exactly my thought. A timeskip like this is a big middle finger to people who have strong emotional bonds with these characters, because it basically crushes all of their fantasies. It’s like “Ok, the show is over, but wait! Here, have this hard timeskip to a distant future, so you won’t have any space left for your own vision of their future anymore. Ok, bye.”. Yeah of course, no one can stop you from creating your own fantasy in your head, but we know how the dynamics here work. This thing crushed a TON of head canons and closed the door hard.
 
It didn’t crush my headcanon or close any doors. Because I went right click delete on season 9 and went “none of that happened”. The main arc was an ass pull. There is no way Sombra is destroying the tree of harmony, not happening in a million years. So I just got rid of the whole season, and I’m looking forward to a new season 9 in a different form (currently planned to be fanfic but the scope may change as we get new people on board). As for right now, the show ends on season 8 for me (plus Best Gift Ever and Rainbow Roadtrip which I currently consider the series finale).
StormsparkPegasus
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@Atlas_66
That really lays out a lot of the issues that pop up. If you really really care about the characters, you have to separate them to some degree from the show or else you are going to have a bad time. I don’t think many people will disagree that the show was often very sloppy, with some writers that never understood the characters they were writing for very well (simple ways, anyone?). If you can separate the characters you care about and start to view the show as more of a compilation of isolated fanfics, it’s a lot easier to roll with the loose canon and kinda painful decision making. And then you can get some enjoyment even from the decisions you don’t really personally like again. Just my two cents.
 
While this is true, there have always been “not great” episodes, there were never any that were so irredeemably bad that they should be discarded entirely, until now. Even the previous “bad” episodes had some decent character moments. The epilogue is like taking every bad fanfic you’ve ever read, animating them, and watching them all at once. The whole thing is an insulting disgusting out of character mess that is basically the show runners having a circle jerk, while metaphorically dumping diarrhea on the mane 6 while giving them the middle finger and going “isn’t that funny”. Honestly if the entire episode had been Tirek literally dumping diarrhea on everyone for 22 minutes I would have enjoyed it more. The rest of season 9 doesn’t fare much better. It’s still irredeemably bad, it’s just that the epilogue is an extra order of magnitude worse. I have completely disregarded season 9 in its entirety, and I’m involved in a group that is going to fix fic this mess. Basically make a new season 9 in fanfic form that will have a proper optimistic open ended ending, not an attempt at a meta “friendships end, life sucks and changes, move on” garbage ending. Season 9 in general and the epilogue in particular can go procreate with itself. I don’t consider that crap canon and I’ve deleted it.
Dashu
Magnificence - Artist with 100+ Safe/Suggestive images with over 100 upvotes, and 5+ Questionable/Explicit images with over 350 upvotes
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
The Magic of Friendship Grows - For helping others attend the 2020 Community Collab
A Really Classy Artist - 250+ images under their artist tag
Charitable Contributor - Contributed to a series of art packs that helped raise over $10,000 for charity
Wallet After Summer Sale -
The Power of Love - Given to a publicly verified artist with an image under their artist’s tag that has reached 1000 upvotes
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under their artist tag
Hard Work - Merited Perfect Pony Plot Provider badge with their own art

Dashu The First
@Atlas_66  
I don’t feel entitled to say much, because I’ve stopped watching the show around season 3, but this is exactly my thought. A timeskip like this is a big middle finger to people who have strong emotional bonds with these characters, because it basically crushes all of their fantasies. It’s like “Ok, the show is over, but wait! Here, have this hard timeskip to a distant future, so you won’t have any space left for your own vision of their future anymore. Ok, bye.”. Yeah of course, no one can stop you from creating your own fantasy in your head, but we know how the dynamics here work. This thing crushed a TON of head canons and closed the door hard.
Background Pony #3395
@Atlas_66  
That really lays out a lot of the issues that pop up. If you really really care about the characters, you have to separate them to some degree from the show or else you are going to have a bad time. I don’t think many people will disagree that the show was often very sloppy, with some writers that never understood the characters they were writing for very well (simple ways, anyone?). If you can separate the characters you care about and start to view the show as more of a compilation of isolated fanfics, it’s a lot easier to roll with the loose canon and kinda painful decision making. And then you can get some enjoyment even from the decisions you don’t really personally like again. Just my two cents.
Atlas_66
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Verified Pegasus - Show us your gorgeous wings!
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
The Magic of Friendship Grows - For helping others attend the 2020 Community Collab
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
Dream Come True! - Participated in the MLP 9th Anniversary Event
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under their artist tag
The Power of Love - Given to a publicly verified artist with an image under their artist’s tag that has reached 1000 upvotes
Artist -

🍞
here is a comment from Equestria Daily, why some fans love episode 26, others not.  
I just copy here:
 
I have another point to make that ties in with that, that I believe explains to some extent why some people liked the finale and some did not.
 
I think there’s a difference between people who mostly enjoyed FiM as just a great cartoon, in a «I like this story told» way vs those who mostly liked it because of deep emotional attachments they formed to the characters over the years.
 
If someone is just in it for an appealing story then they may very well be satisfied with the epilogue because it DOES present a final state, an end to the story if you will. These people can now get out of this and say to themselves «Hey I saw how this character’s story ended and now I can let it go and turn my attention elsewhere.»
 
On the other hand, if you are in the latter category and have these deep emotional connections to these characters then there are BOUND to be problems when seeing what their last showing presented them as. For us this timeskip was just a huge disservice to these characters we’ve grown to love over the last however many years.  
© Wissle
StormsparkPegasus
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

Hnnng, so cute and adorable. Also I’m pretty sure this is more like Dashie’s real response. It fits her character more IMHO.
 
Exactly! You got it.
Background Pony #8BDB
Hnnng, so cute and adorable. Also I’m pretty sure this is more like Dashie’s real response. It fits her character more IMHO.
Infrayellow
The Power of Love - Given to a publicly verified artist with an image under their artist’s tag that has reached 1000 upvotes
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Hard Work - Merited Perfect Pony Plot Provider badge with only their own art
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Artist -

The idea of “canon” is absolutely pointless to argue over. Yeah theoretically only the “officials” can define canon, but if that’s the case Haber could’ve filmed himself taking a dump for the finale and declare it canon. While it may not be far off from what we got, we fans still cannot define it.
 
But do not let that anger you because canon is JUST a word. You get that? Just. A. Word. You can say these last few seasons never happened if it hurts your enjoyment of the show. I know I do, and plenty of other people in this fandom do too, much like how most star wars fans refuse to accept the sequel trilogy. If theres anything that arguing over the meaning of canon has taught me, it’s to use different vocabulary as it already has it’s own definition.
StormsparkPegasus
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

This is how I view season 9. It’s a textbook case of https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TorchTheFranchiseAndRun
StormsparkPegasus
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@StormsparkPegasus
Your head canon isn’t real canon.
 
Eat me. I have standards. I’m not accepting bad fanfiction as canon, and that’s what season 9 is.
Samonuh

@StormsparkPegasus  
Your head canon isn’t real canon.
StormsparkPegasus
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@Atlas_66
Canon is not based on what you like or don’t like all episodes are Canon
@Atlas_66
It’s not the same model
 
Mine is. I don’t accept season 9 as canon, and frankly noone can make me. I don’t even have it anymore. I never had the whole thing but I deleted what I did have. I have seasons 1-8 the movie and the two specials. The show ends on Rainbow Roadtrip for me.
Background Pony #DA92
@Atlas_66  
Canon is not based on what you like or don’t like all episodes are Canon  
@Atlas_66  
It’s not the same model
Dashu
Magnificence - Artist with 100+ Safe/Suggestive images with over 100 upvotes, and 5+ Questionable/Explicit images with over 350 upvotes
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
The Magic of Friendship Grows - For helping others attend the 2020 Community Collab
A Really Classy Artist - 250+ images under their artist tag
Charitable Contributor - Contributed to a series of art packs that helped raise over $10,000 for charity
Wallet After Summer Sale -
The Power of Love - Given to a publicly verified artist with an image under their artist’s tag that has reached 1000 upvotes
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under their artist tag
Hard Work - Merited Perfect Pony Plot Provider badge with their own art

Dashu The First
@StormsparkPegasus  
Meanwhile, I’m here living in season 3 maybe :s
StormsparkPegasus
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

Based dashie not putting up with S9 badness
 
Yes that is awesome. Season 9 is crap in general, 26 is the worst trash I’ve ever seen and I don’t consider it canon. The season in general was basically bad fanfiction. 26 was like every bad fanfic I’ve ever read all at once. She would never do her mane like that, besides she’s not old anyway because my philosophy on that episode is “it didn’t happen”. This is pretty accurate to what her reaction to it would be.