@CronoM  
Mane 8?

@Background Pony #3BBD  
THIS. A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.
 
One of the worst problems of MLP:FiM is keeping the princesses, especially Celestia, as merely mouthpieces to advance the Princess Twilight plot instead of characters. And you’re right, just because a few characters point out legit problems with the plot and Twilight’s forced role doesn’t mean they are doing anything to change it. They need to actual DO it.
 
It was only until recently that we’ve been given some legit hope. They’ve given Twilight some direct doubt in her princesshood in the DHX approved comics, and they’ve given Twilight indirect doubt in her princesshood with Sunset’s help in the Rainbow Rocks movie written by Meghan.
 
If they push for that the whole way into the series itself, that will open up SO many things for the show. Episodes with Celestia, episodes with Luna, old rivals and frenemies appearing without the awkwardness of royalty within the Mane 6’s ranks, other members of the Mane 8 besides Twilight having their protagonist powers shine through, more scenes where they are working as a team of equals against a common enemy, and a whole lot more.
 
They seem to want to push for this, but have had their hands tied or simply restrained for a while. That’s part of their 50%, their F. But if they are allowed to take a step in this direction, the future looks bright for MLP. :)

@CronoM  
I think Twilicorn would be a great way to paint Celestia as fallible, if Twilight ends up abandoning her title in favor of her studies or her friends or whatever. It’s be a great way to teach the parents watching that it’s not a good idea to expect your children to take after you and follow in your foothoofsteps.
 
They have to actually do something to fix it; just having characters point out the problems with the idea isn’t enough if they don’t stop doing it. They say knowing is half the battle, but 50% is still an F.

@Background Pony #C939  
I thought as much. I didn’t doubt your word, I was just using that phrasing to define why I found it hard to believe they would create that gaudy castle without a plan. That’s why I had such a detailed explanation of the ‘unless’ reason why that would be the case. Thanks for telling me the specifics. :)
 
Besides the fact that Rainbow Rocks was written by Meghan herself, the fact that this was stated by Jim Miller reassures me even more. His personal stance on Twilicorn’s personality is pretty well known, he compared her to X-Men’s Cyclops if I recall. While I find Twilight far more interesting then Cyclops, I can see the stick-up-butt leader trope he was trying to explain in S4.

@CronoM  
Jim Miller outright said it was the crews’ decision at a panel at BronyCon 2014.

@Background Pony #C939  
I find it a little hard to believe it was the crew’s decision to destroy Golden Oaks library considering the what was used to replace it…unless the entire purpose of the gaudy castle was to make it obvious, not just to us but to the characters, how gaudy and ostentatious Twilight’s life has become. I mean, it even has its own Twilight Sparkle FLAG. I have trouble finding many of even the most die-hard Twilicorn fans that honestly like the castle.
 
They said they were having an episode in S5 attributed to the loss of Golden Oaks library. Considering that it was just a meeting place and it was simply given to Twilight at the beginning of S1, I’m not sure how they will fill a full episode without introducing some Rainbow Rocks-esque perspective on what was given to replace it.
 
@Beau Skunky  
I too wish that the Princess Twilicorn thing could of had more foreshadowing and development, if that is indeed the permanent direction of the show.
 
However, how would you feel if the entire Princess Twilight arc was made that flawed way, for the purpose to rebound back onto Twilight and Celestia? MLP:FiM isn’t going to evolve much if they keep Celestia ‘the perfect mentor that made no moral mistakes.’ (And while I won’t spoil anything from Rainbow Rocks, it certainly turns that last finales on their heads.)
 
They kept that option still open in S4, even on Discord’s end. Not only did he give the most non-evil criticisms toward the whole princess plan Celestia had for Twilight, he never had a complete ‘heel-face turn.’ He definitely has feelings, (heck even in the first episode he had a personal moral outrage against petrification)but he keeps it balanced as he also uses friendship as a means to troll the others. His ‘full on betrayal then redemption’ felt pretty fake considering he gave them the clues to defeat Tirek as if he knew he was going to let the Mane 6 defeat him all along.
 
Point is, with the following they have, MLP:FiM can last for a long time. I doubt they’d willingly ruin it by holding onto the same necessary flaws needed for the movie to really hit home. From what they’ve been saying, they seem to want to take the show into the development direction that the comics and the recent movie touched upon.

@Beau Skunky  
I was kind of sadden by the loss of Golden Oaks myself, but I’m not deeply hurt by it. It’s a fictional tree in a kids show.
 
I just thought it was worth mentioning (mostly to the other BP) that playsets from locations created by Mrs. Faust indeed exist. No, Twilight’s library wasn’t one of them (and I’m slightly surprised by that), but they do exist, and BP is his panties in a twist over nothing.

@PonyPon  
Well, for one thing, I was a li’l reluctant over the idea of Discord pulling a “heel face-turn” at first, but after watching it, I liked how it was handled, and how at times he’s still mischevious, and a pain-in-the-flank for the ponies, while not being a complete villain.  
Also, while I wasn’t bothered by “Princess Twilicorn” at all, I would’ve prefered if they had more foreshadowing & development for it.  
Also, while I didn’t mind Season 3, I was disapointed Rarity was the only Mane 6-er who didn’t have an episode in it.
 
Other then that, I can’t think of much else that bugged me in the MLP:FiM show. Which is more then I can say for other shows I love. (So don’t assume I love everything about the show blindly, and such. I’m just not bothered by things as much as some fans are, I guess.)

@Beau Skunky  
Serious talk, what would bother you?

@Background Pony #C939  
To be honest, I’m not bothered by the destruction of the library. Sure it was kinda sad, but it gave the episode some emotion/loss, (and gave Twilight extra push/anger to confront Tirek) and they did state there’s an upcoming episode where Twilight deals with the loss of her home.  
(It’s probably the closest thing to a good-guy character death, that we’ve ever had in the show.)

@Beau Skunky  
@Background Pony #1549  
Fluttershy’s cottage, Sweet Apple Acres, Carousel Boutique and Sugar Cube Corner all had playsets. It was the crews’ decision to destroy Twilight’s Library, not Hasbro’s.

@Background Pony #1549  
I think they did have a library playset for Twilight actually. (Not sure.) Not sure if Faust was planning/hoping Hasbro would make toys of those other locations, but they do look like they could’ve been made into playsets. Surprised Hasbro didn’t capitalize on them, or do more toy tie-ins with the show back then.
 
Faust isn’t completely against the “toy-etic” nature of the show, like some think. (Heck she had MLP toys as a kid, and loved them.) In fact, she said she had plans on her “Galaxy Girls” series to be a toy-line, as well as a cartoon. (Though, she hasn’t quite gotten that going yet.)  
Her goal with MLP:FiM was to show even a “girly toy commercial cartoon” can be good.

One example of the show always being intended to be a toy commercial is that Faust clearly wanted the Mane Six’s houses to be suitable to be made into playsets, but Golden Oaks Library, Fluttershy’s cottage, and Dash’s “cloudominium” never were… probably because they weren’t pink or purple. Instead, the library was destroyed and we got the Friendship Rainbow Kingdom Castle. The point is, Hasbro never trusted Faust’s judgement about what makes a good toy.

@TexasUberAlles  
I see, and yeah alot of fans (even I) at first thought the show was going to end with 65 ep’s, so it was a pleasent surprise we got a new season. (And another on the way.)
 
Even so, they did seem to leave it so it could function as either a finale, or in case it got picked-up for another season still be able to continue the series. (So they left some things open-ended, and such. Plus they also didn’t resolve everything like the CMC getting their marks, and such.)  
Alot of show season finales have functioned like that before.

@Beau Skunky  
Larson wrote the episode in November 2011; he specifically said at NMND that he wrote it to be the Series Finale, and none of them at the time thought the show was going to get renewed past the 65 episode syndication minimum. It’s possible that it was written out of sequence, as in before the other twelve episodes; I think they do that with the finales sometimes because they typically take longer to produce.
 
@Background Pony #945C  
the mods don’t tolerate criticism of Twilicorn  
hahahahaha  
The mods don’t tolerate shitfits about Twilicorn, but “shitfit” and “criticism” are two different and not necessarily interdependent things.

@Background Pony #945C  
>Implying he knows what the admins’, or others peoples’ personal opinions are…
 
Frankly, I’m neither “anti-Twilicorn,” nor “pro.”  
Yes, I’d rather they developed Twilight’s ascension, and foreshadow it more, and it could’ve been “handled better.”  
No, I don’t consider Twilicorn “blasphemy.”

Enjoy the discussion while it lasts, guys; the mods don’t tolerate criticism of Twilicorn, and this whole image is likely to get nuked because of the comments.
 
@Beau Skunky  
>implying Twilicorn is a positive note

@Beau Skunky  
Because they suck at being toyetic.
 
Is the first sarcastic response I could come up with.

@TexasUberAlles  
I’m not sure if it was ever meant to be the season finale, considering season 4 got greenlit before they were even finished making S3. (Keep in mind, each episode takes an entire year to make from written script, to finished product.)  
I think they made the S3 finale to go both ways, so if the show got cancelled, they could’ve at least ended it on a positive note, and if it got renewed for a new season, (which it did) then they could still continue the show. McCarthy even remarked that the Season 4 premiere ep’ was kinda like “part 2” of the S3 finale.
 
@Ebalosus  
They might as well as complain about them advertising the train, and balloon in the intro sequence to every single episode. Fans always complain about the show becoming “to much of a toy commercial,” while forgetting the show always kinda was one.  
Also, if the show was as toy-etic as they say, how come we haven’t seen more toys like Applejack’s truck in the show, or say Babs Seed getting an official toy, and such?

@Ebalosus  
It’s only a toy commercial when it’s convenient to complain about it.

@Background Pony #76C7
 
So when S1 (and every other season) does it, it’s ok; but when Equestria Girls does it, it’s crass commercialisation?
 

Unlike the most recent finales, this movie felt like an actual MLP story where real issues and consequences exist to learn from.  
I cant read that without laughing.A rehash of the first EQG trainwreck that pander to Monster High is what MLP story should be ? Sorry i cant go past the rehashed plot and tropes.There was no moral to learn in Rainbow Rocks except buy our fucking our toys.No moral to learn in a commercial

@Ebalosus  
I’ve had the solid impression all along that as Story Editor, her hands are pretty significantly tied by Corporate when it comes to making major changes to the status quo and making them stick; Twilight only got leveled up in MMC at all because it was meant to be the Series Finale, and they were never going to have the opportunity to address any consequences of it. EqG wasn’t originally meant to have a sequel and I don’t think Hasbro realized how popular EqG2:RR was going to be when they greenlit it, so it’s quite likely Corporate took the shackles off and let her tell the story she wanted to tell, because there wasn’t any “a quarter of the company’s profit this year” status quo to maintain.

@CronoM  

As shocking as it is for me to say, but I would argue that in terms of a consequentialist narrative, the Equestria Girls movies are basically the MLP that I’ve always wanted, since everything (YMMV) comes together in a cohesive whole, and it doesn’t rely on writing sleight-of-hands to cover its flaws like the main show has since The Ticket Master.
 
And it goes to show that whatever you think of McCarthy, when push comes to shove, she can write the kind of stories that MLP needs more of: ones where actions have consequences, both on the characters, and the setting.

@Ebalosus  
I couldn’t agree more.
 
Most S4 episodes try to ignore any writing consequences of her being a princess, a few episodes like Twilight Time and a few others tried to awkwardly play with the idea her being a princess without actually addressing the major issues, some episodes would sneak in lines of reasonable doubt yet have no pay off in the episode conclusion, and somehow Trade Ya! tried to do all of the above at the same time, shooting any logic of a lesson deep into space.
 
In Rainbow Rocks they actually deal with the concept maturely. For the princess issue they talk about the origins, the responsibility, the meaning, the lack of meaning, and the consequences and issues that come with it. Unlike the most recent finales, this movie felt like an actual MLP story where real issues and consequences exist to learn from.