@brogor  
thats the doctrine of fascism though, which was wrote by mussolini himself  
what i said by ‘‘fascist manifesto’’ was the one wrote by national syndicalist Alceste de Ambris and Futurist Filippo Tommaso marinetti

@Genny  
National syndicalism is a thing. Historical Fascism (1922-1945) is another. Please read carefully what I wrote, before replying to me.

@brogor  
‘‘Speaking of Alceste De Ambris (one of the authors of the 1919 Manifesto posted by @Genny); in 1920 he was already anti-fascist. He fled to France in 1923, after having suffered Fascist aggressions. His Italian citizenship was withdrawn in 1926.’’  
yes, because he was outraged that mussolini took his ideology (fascism) and made it look like a dictatorial nationalist ideology

@Genny
 
@AaronMk
 
@Genny  

 
Historical Fascism, namely Italian Fascism, was actually a lot more than a simple “nationalist ideology”: it was the attempt to create a totalitarian State in Italy.
 
From the Doctrine of Fascism, an important essay written by the philosopher Giovanni Gentile, the so-called “philosopher of Fascism”, and by Mussolini himself, published in 1932 (emphasis mine):
 
“5. Fascism is a religious conception in which man is seen in his immanent relationship with a superior law and with an objective Will that transcends the particular individual and raises him to conscious membership in a spiritual society.  
Whoever has seen in the religious politics of the Fascist regime nothing but mere opportunism has not understood that Fascism besides being a system of government is also, and above all, a system of thought.
 
7. Against individualism, the Fascist conception is for the State; and it is for the individual in so far as he coincides with the State, which is the conscience and universal will of man in his historical existence. It is opposed to classical Liberalism (…) Liberalism denied the State in the interests of the particular individual; Fascism reaffirms the State as the true reality of the individual.
 
(…) if liberty is to be the attribute of the real man, and not of that abstract puppet envisaged by individualistic Liberalism, Fascism is for liberty. And for the only liberty which can be a real thing, the liberty of the State and of the individual within the State.  
Therefore, for the Fascist, everything is in the State, and nothing human or spiritual exists, much less has value, outside the State.
 
In this sense Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State, the synthesis and unity of all values, interprets, develops and gives strength to the whole life of the people.
 
8. Outside the State there can be neither individuals nor groups (political parties, associations, syndicates, classes). Therefore Fascism is opposed to Socialism, which confines the movement of history within the class struggle and ignores the unity of classes established in one economic and moral reality in the State; and analogously it is opposed to class syndicalism.
 
9. Individuals form classes according to the similarity of their interests, they form syndicates according to differentiated economic activities within these interests; but they form first, and above all, the State, which is not to be thought of numerically as the sum-total of individuals forming the majority of the nation.
 
And consequently Fascism is opposed to Democracy, which equates the nation to the majority, lowering it to the level of that majority.”
 
As you can see reading this short passages from the essay, the doctrine of the historical Fascism (which ruled Italy between 1922 and 1943, Italian Social Republic from 1943 to 1945) is a little different from the ideas of the “Fasci di Combattimento”, which in 1919 was just one of the many “fasci” movements in post-war Italy.
 
These “fasci” movements were politically quite heterogeneous: but they had some common features. Many of their members came from the National syndicalism organizations: and in fact, Alceste de Ambris was one of them.
 
Italian national syndicalists were heavily influenced by the ideas of Georges Sorel (the necessity of a “social myth”, the defense of violence), and held a common set of principles: the rejection of bourgeois values, democracy, liberalism, Marxism, internationalism, and pacifism; and the promotion of heroism, vitalism, and violence.
 
The disastrous results of 1919 general election for the Fasci (less than 5000 votes!) led to the foundation of an actual party, the National Fascist Party, in 1921. The period between 1919 and 1921 was full of internal fights between Mussolini and the anti-Mussolinian members (like national-syndicalists) within the movement, but eventually the line of Mussolini prevailed. By the early 1920s, Mussolini was the undisputed leader of Fascism, and his main ideologue.
 
Mussolini erased all the “democratic” features of the former movement, and he strenghtened the autoritarian, militaristic, reactionary features of the Party. The new aim of the Party was now the creation of a totaliarian State, by violent means.  
But in 1920, Mussolini had already created the squadre d’azione, armed fascist squads with the purpose of destroying the offices of leftist newspapers, and for intimidation or assassination of political opponents.
 
Speaking of Alceste De Ambris (one of the authors of the 1919 Manifesto posted by @Genny); in 1921 he was already anti-fascist. He fled to France in 1923, after having suffered Fascist aggressions. His Italian citizenship was withdrawn in 1926.
 
(For the origins of Italian Fascism and the Fascist ideology, personally I suggest the books by one of the best living experts on Fascism, Emilio Gentile.)

>people actually defending child labour  
w e w  
The idealogy so pure…

@AaronMk  
yes, because they were against the ‘fascist party’ since the leader was mussolini  
he (Alceste de Ambris), actually called the so-called ‘fascist’ movement the least dignified section of the burgeoisie, thus depicting mussolini as a capitalist,  
while his manifesto (which was before mussolini) was more socialist, if not, a version of socialism

@Genny
 
But neither did they actually attempt to execute fascist policy in practical government. Though perhaps it may have been more clearer, since it seems Kek hung to the one part and replied there and I went off on that tangent as well; apologies.
 
On a similar tract, I suppose if we’re saying this then it may also be appropriate to say that Lenin isn’t the end of the road - nor the only - for the interpretation of communism in action; if we assume Marx himself is or was the end-all-be-all for the ideology as a whole.
 
We could also presume Republicanism as it is today has degraded from what it was set out to create in the 1700’s (I say this, having finished the major hits in the career of Thomas Paine).

@AaronMk  
though keep in mind that Mussolini didn’t actually wrote it, is was infact the national SYNDICALIST Alceste de Ambris and the futurist movement leader filippo tommaso marinetti, as wikipedia says,  
don’t get me wrong i’m a socialist but i don’t want to see these two’s people work of an originally ok ideology with a capitalist dictatorial idiot, also known as mussolini

@Genny
 
Manifesto =/= actual policy.
 
In the realm of elective politics you can say one thing and do another and it doesn’t much matter. For Mussolini’s party as soon as they got in it was an easy matter of changing election laws to keep themselves in, so sticking to their advertised guns wasn’t a priority.

@AaronMk  
yeah, but i just showed the link to both the fascist manifesto and the image of the fascist manifesto in the newspaper ‘‘il popolo d’italia’’ and translated all of it

@Genny
 
I think we need to take a step back for a second because you seem to be distracted. KingKek is pointing out that under the Nazi Party under Hitler the German state underwent a rather aggressive policy of privatization
 
The public-sector firms held by the German state at the time of Nazi assumption to power were acquired by the late-stage of the Wiemar Republic to slow or stop the hemorrhaging of the German economy during the Great Depression; this wasn’t unusual as many other western European countries were doing the same at the time (the provided PDF brings this topic up).
 
The mass privatization program underwent in Nazi Germany was to cut expenditures over certain programs by turning them over to private holders so they could put more resources into funding the war machine. Further privatization was to curry favor with party members or people from the outside to keep the state propped up; it would go without saying on this note that the party would have lasted among the elites so long as they had titles to hand out like a noble with land grants to distribute.
 
In light of this activity, versus their official sloganeering as being the National Socialist party the irony of the matter comes into light in that they weren’t very socialist at all. Really, the only left-wing faction in the NSDAP was murdered and his brother fled the country during the Night of Long Knives thus ending the Strasserist (Gregor and Otto Strasser) presence (Canada got Otto).
 
Now, on to the Italian Question at hand:
 
As with the NSDAP, you can’t really call the Fascist Party in Italy as being functionally socialist, or even socialist with an army. To segway briefly to a distinction: socialists nominally want workers control of the means of production either through democratic ownership of the firm or shop, or to transfer otherwise private industry into nationalized industry under the assumption that the government would act as a go-between to execute popular will or oversee popular demand for production.
 
So back to facism: At the end of the day they weren’t very socialist
 
Even if they had a big army, the party under Mussolini carried out a program of privatization in key sectors handing control of the Italian telephone infrastructure, life insurances, returned the country’s steel production to private ownership, and so on. Under a supposed socialist government, it would be presumed the government would seize even more industrial and economic policy. Yet for the government to secure its base it went about the policy of securing itself by handing out economic title.

@KingKek42  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Manifesto  
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Fasci_di_combattimento.jpg  
and, since i’m Italian, i can translate it for you,  
‘‘Italians!  
here is the national program of a movement completely italian, revolutionary, because it is anti-dogmatic and anti-demagogue, strongy innovator because it is anti-prejudicial,  
we put the development of the revolutionary wars at the top, the other problems: burocracy, amministrators, judges, scholars, colonials, etc. we will track them down when we’ll have our leadership.
 
For this we want:  
1)universal suffrage at regional ballot with proportional representation, and women’s rights to vote  
2)the minimum of age to vote lowered to 18 years: the one for the deputies lowered to 25 years  
3)the abolition of the senate  
4)the call of a national assembly for 3 years, where the first goal is to estabilish the form of the state’s constitution  
5)The formation of a national council of experts for labor, for industry, for transportation, for the public health, for communications, etc. Selections to be made of professionals or of tradesmen with legislative powers, and elected directly to a general commission with ministerial powers.  
6)8 hours workday for all workers  
7)a minimum wage  
8)The participation of workers’ representatives in the functions of industry commissions  
9)showing the same confidence in the labor unions (that prove to be technically and morally worthy) as is given to industry executives or public servants  
10)fast reorganization of the railways and the transport sector  
11)Revision of the draft law on invalidity insurance and the reduction of the retirement age from 65 to 55  
12)creation of a short-service national militia  
13)nationalization of armament factories  
14)a peaceful but competitive policy  
15)a strong progressive tax on capital  
16)The seizure of all the possessions of the religious congregations and the abolition of all the bishoprics, which constitute an enormous liability on the Nation and on the privileges of the poor  
17)Revision of all contracts for military provisions and the revision of all military contracts and the seizure of 85 percent of the profits therein.’’  
oh and, yeah nazi germany was capitalist, because that was nazism, yes, what mussolini called his ideology was ‘‘fascism’’ but he was actually just a dictatorial capitalist

@Genny  

@ironroot  
actually, the fascist manifesto shows that fascism is just socialist militarism, though in practice (mussolini etc.) it was more of a dictatorial ultranationalism

@KingKek42  
That is quite literally one of the dumbest things I’ve ever laid eyes on.

Golly.  

@KingKek42  
Oh yeah, because people dying in Africa is a product of capitalism because “Derr, dey have private property!!”, ignoring the fact that states still control private property in their country to the point where their economy gets fucked because of it.
 
Great statistics there.

@KingKek42  
Try giving us one example of someone who died as a direct result of capitalism itself. People die every day regardless of what system they are governed by, but only Socialist systems such as Fascism and Communism directly result in death. I’m going to stop here, because it’s useless arguing with someone who ignores facts and history.

@KingKek42  
Just PM you, and then what, prevent the debate from going public? Oh, no sir. This debate will be public.
 
OH, and watch this video
 
Debunking the claim you made

 
 

@KingKek42  
No. My argument is that you enjoy the benefits of capitalism. Also, I know people who have died because of socialism and communism. And the death toll is greater.

@raakamagna  

 
Guess you missed that part.  
Also “you shouldn’t be socialist because a magical fantasy kids show isn’t” is your argument? Come on now, and you called me pathetic. If you can’t resist the urge to reply to me, then just PM me. Please.

@raakamagna  
Times like these make me wish Derpi had an upvote button for comments.

@Hoploo 

 
Lemonade stands for example.
 
But it is no use to waste your energy reasoning with these guys. Communist and socialist bronies are a joke, a pathetic one. The show is in essence capitalist, it was made for the sole capitalist purpose of selling toys, and the society depicted is a free market society.
 
Their market is so free Rainbow Dash almost traded Fluttershy for a book.