@Twilestia
that’s the thing though. it doesn’t have to actually be true, even in universe. there just needs to be enough ifs, ands, buts, and maybes from a sufficiently clever and charismatic villain to make people believe him and side with him.
he could absolutely accuse the princesses of favoring females over males as we’ve never seen a male alicorn, and he could absolutely accuse the ponies of treating cows, sheep, etc as servants because they’ve actually been shown in subservient roles, he could absolutely accuse the ponies of gobbling up all the preferential land for themselves as they seem to live in the nicest places (and actually have spread out and encroached on another species land before). they could be half-truths or even outright lies; he just needs to convince this group that’s the case and he has some serious fuel to do it with.
like you said, the actual reason could just be “those female princesses were incidentally the ones to be ‘worthy’ and it has nothing to do with gender”, “the cows and sheep actually aren’t subservient but have a ‘role’ in society the same way unicorns, pegasi, and earth ponies do”, and even “that’s just where the ponies happened to live and thrive”. if hearthswarming eve is to be believed there were once subservient racial roles, and like i said tirek used this trick to convince discord, and he could even call out some of the leadership mistakes celestia has seemingly made by just wielding her power haphazardly and point out how she is apparently ignorant of large areas of equestria (starlight’s town, azuihotl’s kingdom) that are suffering.
he’d also be able to rally groups who just apparently were anti-pony, again like a some of the dragons (garble intended to burn equestria to the ground if he became lord), or by making legitimate promises like to azuihotl’s followers (turning up the heat like their leader wanted or promising to free them from azuihotl), changelings (assuming some escaped the crayola fate, he could promise them food), or groups like the griffons (promising them equestria’s riches that are just apparently just sitting in rooms).
long-story short, while i don’t know if they’d ever want to touch on such a villain, if they actually wanted to they could entirely justify it using nothing than what’s been established on screen, either intentionally or incidentally.
@Twilestia
He was referenced in a kids’ story. As for Zecora, let’s not forget ponies were more scared of where she lives than who she is, really. She chose to, and can, live in a place most ponies are terrified of (with good reason), so no wonder they were suspicious.
@DanielTepesKraus
If i recall correctly there is non unicorn elites. We cant really talk about male “royalty” only as that is two unicorns and that its, we didnt even see one ever again besides that one episode. So wouldnt it be better to use “elites” (aka what we see as canterlot nobles?) for an example? And the leaderships in general seems pretty diverse if we can go by the episode with different regional leaders wanting advise from Twilight and spike winging it since she was sleeping heh.
I dont really see any “subservience” except maybe the cows and the sheep (and other farm animals that the show just copy pasted into the farm setting) on the farm? And thats i guess more a symbiotic relationship as cows need milking and sheep need their wool trimmed.
The Donkey couple seems to live like any regular pony citizen, not like some second class one. Plus well they had royalty attend their wedding so maybe their even important creatures in the ponycentric society. (Or its like when Queen Elizabeth visited some random wedding when she got an invitation to it lol… i think that i read about such a thing happening xD )
Zecora lives on her own in the Everfree, but i imagine she could as well live normally in Ponyville. Besides the first “omg scary creature” encounter back in season one, she seems to be well integrated into ponyville, participating and having a pretty important/cool role in events like Nightmare Night.
Pony races inhabiting most of the and the best lands? Maybe, or its just one continent where they are the majority, maybe there is a whole world out there that has almost no or no ponies at all besides this area?
Doubt we will ever find out, but it is a valid point that ponies rule over the best land shown, but that doesnt mean anything. Whats the point of having the best land if you dont know how to use it, if the land was ruled by griffons, with how apathetic to anything their (current as they were thriving before apparently) rulership style is no amount of great land/resources would mean anything. Maybe they are a example of what could have happened to the ponies as well if they lost their unity and sense of identity.
What brings me to the point of other races viewing ponies through a negative lens… Some cultures are better then others is a simple truth. Griffons are shown to be a greedy, apathetic bunch.(after the loss of their cultural symbol and the unity it brought) Changeling were ruthless love stealing monsters ruled by a tyrant. Dragons are hypercompetitive and basically anarchists with a loose “might makes right” kind of “leadership”. (All of those somewhat changed by… pony influence)
And all of those probably viewed the other races besides ponies also in a negative light… So not like its some “pony” specific thing then.
Does Grogar even exist in the current gen? I thought Discord is the one whos taken the “role” pretty much as he was the one who ended up “ruling” (more like taking them as his toys to play with lol) the ponies and be overthrown.
@Deserter
more calling out how equestria’s ruling class are all female alicorns with male “royalty” being apparent figureheads and only unicorns, how their military is all-male, how the ponies have exclusive control over the weather and apparently control the largest and best regions of the world, and how non-ponies appear to be subservient to them, and how most species unaffiliated with ponies (like dragons, griffins, changeling, and even the sphinx) tend to have low opinions of the ponies at best.
i’m not even complaining or calling it out in a negative way. just pointing out a character in-universe could very reasonably use that to sway a large number of non-ponies (and possibly even earth ponies and pegasi) into joining his side by convincing them there’s some conspiracy-type shit going on or even that they’d be better off without the ponies. that’s even the trick tirek used to sway discord to his side:
Lord Tirek: I am surprised that someone with your intellect does not see this ‘friendship’ is but a new form of imprisonment. Clearly you’ve had to abandon your true nature to stay in their good graces.
such a modus operandi could even reasonably mesh with grogar’s original portrayal, being an evil ruler who was overthrown by the ponies and came back seeking vengeance.
also adding to this, it’d be a pretty convenient way to have an “enemy army” scenario that could end with zero deaths and a fully justified “redemption”: his followers could realize grogar was full of shit and just using them, either by seeing the ponies prove him wrong or even him pulling a ‘scar from lion king’ kind of thing and turn on him, leaving just him to be defeated, sealed, or whatever.
@Deserter
Marketing reasons aside, real life ponies and horses are fairly matriarchal. Herds consist of mostly females with only one or a few stallions in them. And the leader of the herd is a boss mare.
@DanielTepesKraus
I figured you were saying that pegasi and unicorns live in fluffy cloud cities and picturesque renaissance-esque city escapes, while the earth ponies live in what’s basically a backwater town (Or Florida), but there’s Manehattan which is mostly populated by earth ponies so it wouldn’t really count, and the deer living in the middle of the Evil Dead forest, and Griffonstone being a shithole, but I digress.
And anyways, what do you want me to do, go ask Hasbro for a rundown or an explanation of the gender ratio of the hierarchy? Meta is all we have going for, a kid’s show is not going to get deep into politics, I can tell you that much. And even then, basically every being capable of rational thought has been shown being able to go in and about as they please, and that’s not something that would happen if there was a serious racial/species/class divide. Hell, most don’t even take a second glance at pets walking around, that should tell you something.
And no, the rich scoffing at passer-by does not count.
@Deserter
uhhhh, first paragraph is pretty irrelevant to what i said, but k. second one’s just a meta excuse, dawg. in-universe there’s a clear disparity based on species and gender, so in-universe it would be reasonably easy for such a character to rally them.
@Darth Sonic
I’ve noticed that too.
Though there was one I was reading a few years ago, I do beleive it’s dead now sadly, where Grogar was effectively the Celestia of a nation less opposed to dark magic.
@Deserter
I’m just saying that while the situation depicted in the picture doesn’t match up with how Equestria’s society works in the show, it’s not like the artist had to rely upon a visual gag to draw inspiration for a conflict between the varying species who live in Equestria.
@Darth Sonic
I always thought that Scorpan would be a better antagonist (not necessarily a villain) for this kind of story. He might view Equestria’s rapid expansion as Celestia overstepping her boundaries, as he has experience in dealing with someone who takes resources from other species to improve their situation, leading to a conflict between the two.
To be honest, though, it’s never been like any of the different species who live in Equestria have been subjected to workplace discrimination. Even though Iron Bull was called a monster, he still had a job as a motivational speaker. That one dragon from the comics even ran a comic book shop, and we all know how ponies feel about dragons.
@Deserter
Gee, if only there was another Season 1 episode in which the ponies planted apple trees right on the sacred ground of another species who inhabited the same area for generations earlier than the ponies had been there without any regard.
@DanielTepesKraus
>The royalty lives better than everyone else.
Well, shit on my knickers and call me Kevin Spacey, I think we’re on the verge of a sociopolitical breakthrough, everybody.
But really, just think about it for a second, do you hear people complaining about the queen of England being a woman and British? Or the American South being more rural than the North? We’ve seen the ruling class of other species with King Grover and whatever the fuck the deer king was called, and the fact that their territory was a shithole had nothing to do with the ponies influence.
And regarding the gender disparity, it’s a little girls show. The important people are gonna be female for the simple fact that it’s aimed at females, there’s no politics involved here.
Besides, I don’t see anyone else stepping up to raise the fucking sun every day.
@Background Pony #D49C
he wouldn’t have a hard time convincing them. make whatever excuses you want, be they in-universe or meta, but the equestria that’s been depicted clearly has a socially unequal hierarchy and clearly depicted “lower class” and “ruling class” citizens based entirely on species and gender.
But this is Grogar. He wants power and is willing to employ necromancy magic to attain that power . He’ll likely betray them upon achieving victory and enslave them for his own benefit /enjoyment .
