@redexorcist  
If a character is wronged but still makes no mistakes, that’s still a Marty Stu, it’s just a Marty Stu that attempts to emotionally manipulate me with a crappy pity party/guilt trip.
 
This is Jerry Smith  
>>https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/rickandmorty/images/f/f1/Jerry_Smith.png/revision/latest?cb=20160923151111
 
He goes through the same shit as Flash did but we are NOT meant to sympathize with this character. That’s a method they could use to FIX Flash’s “character”.

@Angrybrony  
He’s also a helpful person as seen in good vibes by the way.

@Background Pony #A26A  
>He cleared twilight name  
wow. i bet was a really deep and involving subplot that wasn’t introduced and done away with in the span of a minute.
 
what load of shit. that would imply he had a way deeper understanding of the magic then he should have or that he wanted that shit to happen.

@Background Pony #4345  
timber never owned up to fucking up. hell he took credit for saving everyone. yeah that’s a joke but it a cringy one. and secondly just cause he docent mess up docent make hum a marry sue. he has his own sugars he goes threw and has show that even if he’s hurting he’ll help others (see the good vibes music video). Timber is more of a marry sue with the girl’s comments about him being cool even thaw they just met him.
 
@Angrybrony
 
if you have to say its a joke its not a very good joke

Great, guess we can never be rid of these two… two whole specials without them was way too good a trend to continue.

@Angrybrony  
Not quite what I was getting at.
 
Despite my distaste for the caricature(I don’t like to call him a character), I’m trying to remain impartial enough to propose a potential method to fixing said caricature into a proper character.

@Angrybrony  
He cleared twilight name in the first movie and that count’s for something for helping friends out. Timber would’ve saved the campers and his sister if he had just taken the geodes but he didn’t. He allowed the magic control his sister and endangered the campers. Then he brags about himself that he saved the campers but in reality he didn’t. Bottom line, flash is more helpful and trustworthy than timber will ever be

@Background Pony #4345  
not that flash has really done anything besides that one thing in EQG1 to resolve a whole 2 minute conflict that was stupid to begin with and went fuck all nowhere.

@redexorcist  
“To err is human” - Alexander Pope
 
Timber fucked up, that makes him human.  
Flash did not that makes him a Marty Stu.
 
Unless Flash fucks up, acknowledges his faults attempts to better himself and stop living in the past (i.e. the things Sunset had to deal with), I’m going to continue hating this caricature.

@redexorcist  

 
you mean when he was joking? you do understand what joke is right?
 
@Background Pony #A26A  
timber did try and to help the campers in the gloriosa fight. he picked up a hatchet went at the vines trapping the campers, remember? what has flash done something that was that cool?

@Background Pony #4345  
you say the character needs to stand on his own, well if timber was on his own his a ass hole

@Background Pony #4345  
Nonetheless, my opinion is clear

@Background Pony #4345  
you say all this but timbers poupous is to replace flash cause of all the haters liker you. his personality is sumbed up as a guy who has an ego bigger then Rainboe and Trixie combined and brags about amazing things he’s done but never seen. you say he cares for his sister but he did jack shit to help her take care of the capers and opted to flirt with the girl he just met. in fact he is partly responsible for his sister going crazy.
 
Flash may have been under developed but at less he at one point played an active role in helping the main characters. all timber did was make up a story to cover for his sister and that didn’t really help anything.

@Background Pony #A26A  
Please use grammar and punctuation when writing a comment, no-one wants to read a wall-of-text and terrible characters slip through the cracks of various series all the time, I know I’m going to piss A LOT of people off here but Kirito from SAO is a good example of a terrible MAIN character.
 
And again as I said, CHARACTER 1ST, LOVE INTEREST 2ND.
 
If the character cannot stand on its own it cannot stand as a love interest because it is not a person, it is an idealized perfect mate that doesn’t exist in reality.

Okay, here’s the thing. Stop talking about who is the one that insulting who, and continue talking about the character that related to image.

@Background Pony #4345  
I highly disagree with you there. If flash was undeveloped, he wouldn’t have been in the series in the first place. Flash is a character with a mature personality while timber is known to b a great nuisance and his appearance in the series has caused infinite rage among alot of fans who despise timber. The flash hate, seriously, t’s getting old and has to end. Flash is known to be the right man for twilight because as i stated before, he’s a mature and true gentlemen and he always helps out when in need. timber in constrast has accomplished nothing to impress the fans. Why he’s not the man for twilight and is not a true mature gentlemen like flash is because he did nothing to save his sister when his sister discovered the geodes and instead covered up for her by making up a story about gaea everfree. His actins also led his sister to become gaia everfree herself and has endangered the campers as a result. He’s always bragging about himself and never cared about twilight nor her well being in the movie and in unsolved selfie mysteries. If timber was meant for twilight, he’d been in the first movie but since he wasn’t, flash is the right man for twilight

This is as good as a time as any to get all this rage off my chest.
 
Flash is still an undeveloped caricature of a concept (the designated love interest), Timber Spruce in contrast is a better designed character with actual flaws and goals and in his first appearance his entire existence wasn’t built around just being a love interest but also helping his sister protect their livelihood. Also in the later shorts Timber has a whole jealousy arc with AJ & being the better lifeguard thing going on whereas Flash still hasn’t learnt anything.
 
Seriously though approximately 50% of the tropes applied to Flash are related to his love interest status, which are now completely redundant and NO replacing Twilight with Sunset for that role won’t FIX any of the issues with the character it’ll just make his shitty design more pronounced in-series.
 
As for the ships themselves, the thing everyone seems to care about… they’re all terribly written so it’s sort of irrelevant, you could remove all this love interest crap and nothing would change in terms of plot, character or story.
 
Summary: Flash is underdeveloped and primarily redundant outside of love interest status, Timber actually has potential to be used as a proper character. All of these characters respective ships are complete shite and isn’t even something one should account for when writing a character.
 
Character first, love interest second.

@Background Pony #F4C4  
Have you not heard of being the bigger person? You don’t need bite the bait if someone gets their panties in a twist over a fictional character.
 
 
@Background Human  
Nope, Flash and Timber can never be anything more than hangers-on to Twilight, regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

@Background Pony #F4C4  
Oh please stop with the holy than tho attitude.

@Spike_Lover  

@Background Pony #F4C4  
1.Actually it was an anon who started the insulting.
 
2.Imperfect wasn’t insulting anyone he was right you don’t speak for everyone

@Spike_Lover  
The point is he started it first by firing the first insult instead of letting someone vent their anger, then of course Imperfect came in with another insult like he always does when Flash is involved. So again, as far as I care it’s people like those that go around starting thing that are the problem. Get your facts straight.

@Spike_Lover  
i mean was it real an argument? it was more like wanking a character.

@Background Pony #F4C4  
I’m a Flash fan and I wasn’t insulted :p

I’m sorry where’s this from again?