Cirrus Light 
"[@PonyPonyPonyP0ny":](/1662508#comment_6930194
)
"...the horrendous+__position+__ that existence..." "That +__thinking+__ is how you end up..." "+__It’s+__ disgusting in how +__it+__ completely fails..."
Yep, you should absolutely debate_*ideas_*, not _*people_*.
But if the idea guises itself as intellectual that really makes it no better to me. It's asserting that existence itself isn't some kind of mind-blowing ultimate good, and as someone who is continually just blown away at how the universe has somehow come to know itself and existentially thrilled, I find that an utterly reprehensible and repugnant philosophy that life isn't worth living and you shouldn't let others live. That it's not a good thing that the human race continues.
As I suggested before, that idea should take a note from its own suggestion and just stop spreading. It would quickly discover_*why_* that's such a horrific idea.
And let me add, you're not giving birth to people in impoverished foreign countries. You're giving birth to someone in the pinnacle of human civilization and the dawn of an age of unimaginable wonder as we tamper with revolutionary technologies and ideas like general AI, mental upload/neural interface with machines and colonization of distant worlds.
I just can't stress enough, how absolutely magnificent life is. Perhaps a few years studying astronomy, astrophysics and cosmology, with some sprinkling of neurology and biology and seeing the universe as it is and you'll start to understand just how absolutely mind-bogglingly miraculous intelligent life is. It is literally the only thing in the entire unimaginable vastness of the known universe that endows it with any meaning.
You just have to see the immeasurable blessings and wonders that surround us, and you'd start to know why that idea is so atrocious. The idea is projecting depressed, fatalistic suicide ideation onto others and that's just reprehensible.
Who the hell thinks life is so much suffering it's not worthwhile for having any meaning? That's a tiny, tiny minority of human beings who need to have therapy and/or take prescribed antidepressants until they no longer think that. Most people do not think that way. Banking on the fact that your child would come to regret being born or somehow people are the matter with the world and refusing to do what would actually teach you just how worthwhile life could be is just absolutely disgusting.
It just takes some really simple economics to understand that more people solves problems, not creates them. A civilization with 300 million can do more than 10x what a civilization of 30 million can do, and that means more per person.
Life_*is_* damn well worth living. It's literally the most wondrous and existentially thrilling thing you've ever experienced. If you'd just take a minute to grasp just how far we've come as a species and what we've accomplished over what time, you'll begin to see. Futurism is where it's at, and we need our next generations of people raised to love and love learning to make that future happen. If you can't believe in the present, perhaps you can at least believe in the future. And the kinds of amazing things my future children will see - my God, how can you deny anyone the opportunity to see _*that_*?
Colonizing Mars, possibly even robotic superintelligence, but probably at least some generalized AI, possibly interstellar flight, almost certainly the first asteroid mining and space colonies of some kind. Possibly even freaking_*immortality_* and a cure to aging with genetic breakthroughs. In not too long we'll learn what it's like to have to ask if sapient robots (even robot ponies! Hah) deserve human rights, an what it's like to directly neurally interface with computers. Don't you want to know what that's like? What it's like to walk on Mars or have an AI -~~pony friend-~~ best buddy/servant who just wants to make you happy?
Untold discoveries that await us, perhaps even AI-assisted or computer modeled breakthroughs in psychology that will help depressed people on a_*personal_* level. With the insane breakthroughs we're making in the ability to _*solve problems_*, I honestly almost expect _*depression_* to be cured in my lifetime! As for life experiences, though, hell, even pony fandom as an example of coming to love fictional characters. Now imagine you feel that way about a _*real_* person and get to spend the rest of your life with them.
And life is just so horrible that it's not right to let anyone new experience **all of that**?
If you shove your face in the mud of course you're gonna see the dirt. But if we're going to get anywhere we've got to stop thinking of our place in the dirt and start wondering about our place among the stars, and being a part of the great superorganism that is the human race. It's been a wild ride. Someone born in 1700 and lived a century would see a lot of great changes, but those would pale in comparison to someone born in 1800 and lived to see industrialization, and those are a joke compared to what you'd see born in 1900 to see the space race, airline industry, computers and internet.
From 1700-1800, you had American colonies, independence, and democracy.
1800-1900, Industrialization, railroads, canals and such.
1900-2000, from horse and buggy to the first cars, radio, widespread plumbing and electrical power, both world wars, yes, but then nuclear power, widespread aviation, science fiction, air conditioning, TV, the space age, computers, Civil Rights, early robotics, and the internet.
From freaking horse and buggies being the most common mode of travel to the internet.
The previous century saw nothing like that. So you just have to wonder...
God knows what the next century has in store.
It's worthwhile even if just to see that, never mind the possibility of personal joy in a mate, family, etc.
Sciencepone of Science!
"...the horrendous
Yep, you should absolutely debate
But if the idea guises itself as intellectual that really makes it no better to me. It's asserting that existence itself isn't some kind of mind-blowing ultimate good, and as someone who is continually just blown away at how the universe has somehow come to know itself and existentially thrilled, I find that an utterly reprehensible and repugnant philosophy that life isn't worth living and you shouldn't let others live. That it's not a good thing that the human race continues.
As I suggested before, that idea should take a note from its own suggestion and just stop spreading. It would quickly discover
And let me add, you're not giving birth to people in impoverished foreign countries. You're giving birth to someone in the pinnacle of human civilization and the dawn of an age of unimaginable wonder as we tamper with revolutionary technologies and ideas like general AI, mental upload/neural interface with machines and colonization of distant worlds.
I just can't stress enough, how absolutely magnificent life is. Perhaps a few years studying astronomy, astrophysics and cosmology, with some sprinkling of neurology and biology and seeing the universe as it is and you'll start to understand just how absolutely mind-bogglingly miraculous intelligent life is. It is literally the only thing in the entire unimaginable vastness of the known universe that endows it with any meaning.
You just have to see the immeasurable blessings and wonders that surround us, and you'd start to know why that idea is so atrocious. The idea is projecting depressed, fatalistic suicide ideation onto others and that's just reprehensible.
Who the hell thinks life is so much suffering it's not worthwhile for having any meaning? That's a tiny, tiny minority of human beings who need to have therapy and/or take prescribed antidepressants until they no longer think that. Most people do not think that way. Banking on the fact that your child would come to regret being born or somehow people are the matter with the world and refusing to do what would actually teach you just how worthwhile life could be is just absolutely disgusting.
It just takes some really simple economics to understand that more people solves problems, not creates them. A civilization with 300 million can do more than 10x what a civilization of 30 million can do, and that means more per person.
Life
Colonizing Mars, possibly even robotic superintelligence, but probably at least some generalized AI, possibly interstellar flight, almost certainly the first asteroid mining and space colonies of some kind. Possibly even freaking
Untold discoveries that await us, perhaps even AI-assisted or computer modeled breakthroughs in psychology that will help depressed people on a
And life is just so horrible that it's not right to let anyone new experience **all of that**?
If you shove your face in the mud of course you're gonna see the dirt. But if we're going to get anywhere we've got to stop thinking of our place in the dirt and start wondering about our place among the stars, and being a part of the great superorganism that is the human race. It's been a wild ride. Someone born in 1700 and lived a century would see a lot of great changes, but those would pale in comparison to someone born in 1800 and lived to see industrialization, and those are a joke compared to what you'd see born in 1900 to see the space race, airline industry, computers and internet.
From 1700-1800, you had American colonies, independence, and democracy.
1800-1900, Industrialization, railroads, canals and such.
1900-2000, from horse and buggy to the first cars, radio, widespread plumbing and electrical power, both world wars, yes, but then nuclear power, widespread aviation, science fiction, air conditioning, TV, the space age, computers, Civil Rights, early robotics, and the internet.
From freaking horse and buggies being the most common mode of travel to the internet.
God knows what the next century has in store.
It's worthwhile even if just to see that, never mind the possibility of personal joy in a mate, family, etc.