Viewing last 25 versions of comment by moonlightaveger on image #1981311

"Sigh... The proper answer is too big... Here is an abridged version...
 
[@Chopsticks":](/1981311#comment_7953623
[bq])  

> But I think you’re taking it too symbolically deeply with connections to the show’s staff.[/bq]

 
What do you mean?


 
And here is another definition of lampshading: "the writers' trick of dealing with any element of the story that threatens the audience's Willing Suspension of Disbelief, whether a very implausible plot development, or a particularly blatant use of a trope, by calling attention to it and simply moving on". Not even my definition. Sounds a lot worse, and it's also colloquially known as "bad writing" or "not thinking ahead", but like I said, I don't mind that they're doing this (if they are, we're speculating on an episode that hasn't aired yet).
 
I've probably done it too...


 
The problem is that, depending on how it's done, and to what, it feels dishonest. Like throwing a temper tantrum, yelling that one didn't mess up, and that all the times that something shouldn't have happened, but did, was intentional. Even if in retrospect.

This is what I mean: s
 
Suppose that in the episode the sisters mention how **lately** they've been incapable of dealing with the problems that cropped up and that is why they're 'retiring'. Now suppose that the sisters, instead, say that Twilight and friends are ready to take on their job, and that is why they're retiring, no mention of their incapacity to deal with the problems that the Mane Six fix, or that they aren't needed anymore.


 
While the first addresses the 'issue', it does so in a very childish way, because everyone knows that in no moment the production staff stopped writing a particular scene and went "Wait... Celestia is getting old and can't deal with this anymore. That is why she's going to leave it to Twilight/Cadance/whoever!" For this to work, for starters, the story would have to be ABOUT HER, and it never was. This is insulting to the audience's intelligence and sounds like the producers are incapable of admitting a mistake or negligence, for whatever reasons it happened.


 
The alternative isn't trying to fix a problem that can't be fixed, and is instead, actually, moving on with Twilight's story as if nothing happened. This is 'good lampshading'.


 
The problem with this, is that they Sisters never called their inability to deal with those problems at the appropriate time. When Celestia and Luna 'defeated' King Sombra in the past, the cartoon wasn't telling a story of how the Sisters did their best to beat an evil overlord, it was setting up the stage for Twilight and friends to do it. Not even mentioning the failure that is the the whole 'test' subplot. Why were the two even fighting? They still had access to the Elements of Harmony at the time.


 
When Celestia fought Chrysalis, she was fully confident she could defeat her and the cartoon downright said that the reason she didn't was because Chrysalis was pretty much high on Love.
[bq]  

> Queen Chrysalis: Ah! Shining Armor's love for you is even stronger than I thought! Consuming it has made me even more powerful than Celestia![/bq]
Seriously?!
 
Celestia is used as a measure of power! The first season treated Nightmare Moon as godlike and made a huge deal of the ability of bringing the day and night. This is why memes like Godlestia and Trollestia exist. People didn't believe that Celestia was incapable of dealing with stuff and left them to Twilight intentionally. Most of what comes later, as far as Celestia is concerned, is a huge patchwork of writers trying to cover their tracks, starting with Hearth's Warming Eve, where the writers couldn't be bothered to think for a couple seconds with finding a role for the unicorns to fulfill, and that was a previous episode, before Celestia lost her fight.


 
Right now, I'm not angry at the cartoon for making Celestia a tired old lady that just wants to rest. I'm not even angry at the fans for swallowing this, or for the cartoon to drag Luna along as if the two are inseparable (which they were supposed to be, but never were). If that is what they want Celestia to be, then fine. I just hope they give a beloved character some dignity in the end.

They can't stop people from writing better fanfiction than their original material anyways...
 
And while I don't care if in the cartoon Celestia is so powerful that she can decide to release the greatest threat to Equestria on a whim, or as pathetic that she has to bow her head to the EEA, why do I pick on the cartoon for messing up their job? Because I'm not the one that said Celestia rules anything and has characters talking about her like she's Equestria's own Jesus Christ before Twilight. As far as I'm concerned, she didn't need to be anything to do her job of raising the sun. Or for Luna to raise the moon and protect dreams. It's the cartoon that started something it can't finish without gutting the characters or infringing on age ratings.


 
So, in the end, what am I saying? That the best way to deal with this is to simply say that Celestia and Luna decided to retire. Why? Who cares? The cartoon is ending.


 
It's like breaking a window to evacuate people from a building on fire. It's fine that you broke the window to save lives, but the window is still broken. It gets cold at night, people are going to miss it. How do you fix it? You don't. You get everyone out of the building and move on. No one is going to care about the broken window after the building is done burning. The important part is that you saved the people.


 
Instead of thinking of Celestia as some old badass that needs all sorts of mental gymnastics to exist **in the past**, and is now retiring to die forgotten in a hole when all attention went to the next generation, I'd rather take all the poor writing the cartoon hgadve her and let her end (or even die, if that is the case) in a final blaze of how out of everyone's league she was. To the sound of Solence's Legends Never Die. Or perhaps Malukah's Beauty of Dawn.


 
..... Yeah... Right...

By the way, my original comment was too big, and I go into greater detail. I had to cut it some. Let me know if something seems odd. I'll try to explain.

"@Chopsticks":/1981311#comment_7953623
[bq]But I think you’re taking it too symbolically deeply with connections to the show’s staff.[/bq]
What do you mean?

And here is another definition of lampshading: "the writers' trick of dealing with any element of the story that threatens the audience's Willing Suspension of Disbelief, whether a very implausible plot development, or a particularly blatant use of a trope, by calling attention to it and simply moving on". Not even my definition. Sounds a lot worse, and it's also colloquially known as "bad writing" or "not thinking ahead", but like I said, I don't mind that they're doing this (if they are, we're speculating on an episode that hasn't aired yet).
I've probably done it too...

The problem is that, depending on how it's done, and to what, it feels dishonest. Like throwing a temper tantrum, yelling that one didn't mess up, and that all the times that something shouldn't have happened, but did, was intentional. Even if in retrospect.

This is what I mean: suppose that in the episode the sisters mention how *lately* they've been incapable of dealing with the problems that cropped up and that is why they're 'retiring'. Now suppose that the sisters, instead, say that Twilight and friends are ready to take on their job, and that is why they're retiring, no mention of their incapacity to deal with the problems that the Mane Six fix, or that they aren't needed anymore.

While the first addresses the 'issue', it does so in a very childish way, because everyone knows that in no moment the production staff stopped writing a particular scene and went "Wait... Celestia is getting old and can't deal with this anymore. That is why she's going to leave it to Twilight/Cadance/whoever!" For this to work, for starters, the story would have to be ABOUT HER, and it never was. This is insulting to the audience's intelligence and sounds like the producers are incapable of admitting a mistake or negligence, for whatever reasons it happened.

The alternative isn't trying to fix a problem that can't be fixed, and is instead, actually, moving on with Twilight's story as if nothing happened. This is 'good lampshading'.

The problem with this, is that they never called their inability to deal with those problems at the appropriate time. When Celestia and Luna 'defeated' King Sombra in the past, the cartoon wasn't telling a story of how the Sisters did their best to beat an evil overlord, it was setting up the stage for Twilight and friends to do it. Not even mentioning the failure that is the the whole 'test' subplot. Why were the two even fighting? They still had access to the Elements of Harmony at the time.

When Celestia fought Chrysalis, she was fully confident she could defeat her and the cartoon downright said that the reason she didn't was because Chrysalis was pretty much high on Love.
[bq]Queen Chrysalis: Ah! Shining Armor's love for you is even stronger than I thought! Consuming it has made me even more powerful than Celestia![/bq]
Seriously?! Celestia is used as a measure of power! The first season treated Nightmare Moon as godlike and made a huge deal of the ability of bringing the day and night. This is why memes like Godlestia and Trollestia exist. People didn't believe that Celestia was incapable of dealing with stuff and left them to Twilight intentionally. Most of what comes later, as far as Celestia is concerned, is a huge patchwork of writers trying to cover their tracks, starting with Hearth's Warming Eve, where the writers couldn't be bothered to think for a couple seconds with finding a role for the unicorns to fulfill, and that was a previous episode, before Celestia lost her fight.

Right now, I'm not angry at the cartoon for making Celestia a tired old lady that just wants to rest. I'm not even angry at the fans for swallowing this, or for the cartoon to drag Luna along as if the two are inseparable (which they were supposed to be, but never were). If that is what they want Celestia to be, then fine. I just hope they give a beloved character some dignity in the end.

And while I don't care if in the cartoon Celestia is so powerful that she can decide to release the greatest threat to Equestria on a whim, or as pathetic that she has to bow her head to the EEA, why do I pick on the cartoon for messing up their job? Because I'm not the one that said Celestia rules anything and has characters talking about her like she's Equestria's own Jesus Christ before Twilight. As far as I'm concerned, she didn't need to be anything to do her job of raising the sun. Or for Luna to raise the moon and protect dreams. It's the cartoon that started something it can't finish without gutting the characters or infringing on age ratings.

So, in the end, what am I saying? That the best way to deal with this is to simply say that Celestia and Luna decided to retire. Why? Who cares? The cartoon is ending.

It's like breaking a window to evacuate people from a building on fire. It's fine that you broke the window to save lives, but the window is still broken. It gets cold at night, people are going to miss it. How do you fix it? You don't. You get everyone out of the building and move on. No one is going to care about the broken window after the building is done burning. The important part is that you saved the people.

Instead of thinking of Celestia as some old badass that needs all sorts of mental gymnastics to exist *in the past*, and is now retiring to die forgotten in a hole when all attention went to the next generation, I'd rather take all the poor writing the cartoon had and let her end (or even die, if that is the case) in a final blaze of how out of everyone's league she was. To the sound of Solence's Legends Never Die. Or perhaps Malukah's Beauty of Dawn.

..... Yeah... Right...

By the way, my original comment was too big, and I go into greater detail. I had to cut it some. Let me know if something seems odd. I'll try to explain.

"@Chopsticks":/1981311#comment_7953623
[bq]But I think you’re taking it too symbolically deeply with connections to the show’s staff.[/bq]
What do you mean?

And here is another definition of lampshading: "the writers' trick of dealing with any element of the story that threatens the audience's Willing Suspension of Disbelief, whether a very implausible plot development, or a particularly blatant use of a trope, by calling attention to it and simply moving on". Not even my definition. Sounds a lot worse, and it's also colloquially known as "bad writing" or "not thinking ahead", but like I said, I don't mind that they're doing this (if they are, we're speculating on an episode that hasn't aired yet).
I've probably done it too...

The problem is that, depending on how it's done, and to what, it feels dishonest. Like throwing a temper tantrum, yelling that one didn't mess up, and that all the times that something shouldn't have happened, but did, was intentional. Even if in retrospect.

This is what I mean: suppose that in the episode the sisters mention how *lately* they've been incapable of dealing with the problems that cropped up and that is why they're 'retiring'. Now suppose that the sisters, instead, say that Twilight and friends are ready to take on their job, and that is why they're retiring, no mention of their incapacity to deal with the problems that the Mane Six fix, or that they aren't needed anymore.

While the first addresses the 'issue', it does so in a very childish way, because everyone knows that in no moment the production staff stopped writing a particular scene and went "Wait... Celestia is getting old and can't deal with this anymore. That is why she's going to leave it to Twilight/Cadance/whoever!" For this to work, for starters, the story would have to be ABOUT HER, and it never was. This is insulting to the audience's intelligence and sounds like the producers are incapable of admitting a mistake or negligence, for whatever reasons it happened.

The alternative isn't trying to fix a problem that can't be fixed, and is instead, actually, moving on with Twilight's story as if nothing happened. This is 'good lampshading'.

The problem with this, is that they never called their inability to deal with those problems at the appropriate time. When Celestia and Luna 'defeated' King Sombra in the past, the cartoon wasn't telling a story of how the Sisters did their best to beat an evil overlord, it was setting up the stage for Twilight and friends to do it. Not even mentioning the failure that is the the whole 'test' subplot. Why were the two even fighting? They still had access to the Elements of Harmony at the time.

When Celestia fought Chrysalis, she was fully confident she could defeat her and the cartoon downright said that the reason she didn't was because Chrysalis was pretty much high on Love.
[bq]Queen Chrysalis: Ah! Shining Armor's love for you is even stronger than I thought! Consuming it has made me even more powerful than Celestia![/bq]
Seriously?! Celestia is used as a measure of power! The first season treated Nightmare Moon as godlike and made a huge deal of the ability of bringing the day and night. This is why memes like Godlestia and Trollestia exist. People didn't believe that Celestia was incapable of dealing with stuff and left them to Twilight intentionally. Most of what comes later, as far as Celestia is concerned, is a huge patchwork of writers trying to cover their tracks, starting with Hearth's Warming Eve, where the writers couldn't be bothered to think for a couple seconds with finding a role for the unicorns to fulfill, and that was a previous episode, before Celestia lost her fight.

Right now, I'm not angry at the cartoon for making Celestia a tired old lady that just wants to rest. I'm not even angry at the fans for swallowing this, or for the cartoon to drag Luna along as if the two are inseparable (which they were supposed to be, but never were). If that is what they want Celestia to be, then fine. I just hope they give a beloved character some dignity in the end.

And while I don't care if in the cartoon Celestia is so powerful that she can decide to release the greatest threat to Equestria on a whim, or as pathetic that she has to bow her head to the EEA, why do I pick on the cartoon for messing up their job? Because I'm not the one that said Celestia rules anything and has characters talking about her like she's Equestria's own Jesus Christ before Twilight. As far as I'm concerned, she didn't need to be anything to do her job of raising the sun. Or for Luna to raise the moon and protect dreams. It's the cartoon that started something it can't finish without gutting the characters or infringing on age ratings.

So, in the end, what am I saying? That the best way to deal with this is to simply say that Celestia and Luna decided to retire. Why? Who cares? The cartoon is ending.

It's like breaking a window to evacuate people from a building on fire. It's fine that you broke the window to save lives, but the window is still broken. It gets cold at night, people are going to miss it. How do you fix it? You don't. You get everyone out of the building and move on. No one is going to care about the broken window after the building is done burning. The important part is that you saved the people.

Instead of thinking of Celestia as some old badass that needs all sorts of mental gymnastics to exist *in the past*, and is now retiring to die forgotten in a hole when all attention went to the next generation, I'd rather take all the poor writing the cartoon had and let her end (or even die, if that is the case) in a final blaze of how out of everyone's league she was. To the sound of Solence's Legends Never Die. Or perhaps Malukah's Beauty of Dawn.

..... Yeah... Right...