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I hope this happens. I cry every time I think about poor Cozy’s horrible fate. I know deep down inside that Twilight regrets it too, but unless G5 references it, we’ll never get to see Twilight atone for her evil.
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Literally no one here was saying that she was innocent and there is no proof of her being a psychopath. She is no more evil then Discord used to be.
And as been stated beforehand on other works, Twilight was able to reach out to others that had done far worse to Equestria and came out on top:All that Cozy did on her own in Season 8 was simply trap Twilight Sparkle and her friends in Tartarus for a short time and “nearly” got rid of all Magic from Equestria, and was sentenced to Tartarus for it.
Compare that punishment to Tempest Shadow; who had spearheaded the invasion of Mount Aris and Equestria, enslaved her own people and trapped The Royal Sisters and the Imperial Princess in stone for three days with the intent on stealing their magic in a ritual to empower The Storm King who planned on world conquest, which almost happened. All she got afterwards was a slap-on-the-wrist.
Correct me if I’m wrong here amigo, but shouldn’t the punishments be reversed instead? Either Twilight is racist towards Pegasi who she believes are beyond redemption, or she and the Princesses only keep Tempest Shadow outside of Tartarus because she is useful to them. I don’t know which reason is worse…
Edited
Ok so its one thing wanting cozy to get a reformation arc but can we at least admit she’s currently a remorseless psychopathic monster and not downplay her and blame others for how she is. U know u can reform a character without making them innocent victims right? if anyone wants to discuss this topic one day in the forums just tell me.
I feel kinda like you’re trying to pick a fight with statements like that. Maybe we could get back to the shitpoint of the shitpost we’re shitcommenting on instead?
I mean I don’t know what kind of behavior you’re expecting from a fella named DarkHooves that isn’t just full-on edgelord territory - hell even the avatar kinda gives the game away
Edited
Oh - I think you might be referring to your earlier comment being deleted? Ok, that’s your business not mine. But I guess if you want to keep commenting here maybe make your comments less snarky and try to be less of an asshole to others? I guess?
@Background Pony #15EC
That’s fine. You’re welcome to your opinion. I honestly had no expectation that you would change your mind, especially given how long and how much you’ve posted about Cozy.
@Johnny B. Mediocre
MemepediaDankMemes has trouble when people come at it sideways, plus somehow the site was trying to camouflage the link twice, so I replaced your link with something that will throw fewer errors when it loads.
Edited
Oh, I’m sorry! Was that too insensitive? What I meant to say was it doesn’t matter how many words you string together to explain your little slippery slope argument based on inconsequential events outside the frame of the episode. It’s still just exceptional stuff. Snd I hope you take ramblings like this to the forums next time, where exceptional stuff like that belongs.
case in point
Edited because: Fixed the circular URL
In Marks for Effort, while we do see the CMC trying to help Cozy, I’m not entirely sure how that’s supposed to immediately reform her as she may not have even got her entire plan formed at that point, not to mention her own twisted view on friendship which may have made standard teachings in the subject not viable for her. Plus, its also worth noting that in the same episode, she confessed to Starlight about lying on the test despite having no real reason to do so, even showing this expression https://derpibooru.org/images/2185054?q=cozy+glow%2C+marks+for+effort when no one was looking.
Going further in to the school, you talk about working with Twilight and receiving counseling, but simply being manipulative doesn’t mean your irredeemable and counseling is pointless when the councilor isn’t even giving the right council as she doesn’t actually know what’s wrong with the patient. We have seen Starlight using the trust given to her by a bunch of ponies to essentially enslave them and use them to further her own agenda despite all the trust they put in her and despite the fact that she at least had a loving and supportive father whom she could always turn to. Despite that, Twilight went all out with trying to help her in the time loop while Cozy was simply given up on upon her reveal as a villain.
Yes, she did mostly what literally every other villain did before getting a second chance. Did Discord stop causing chaos on his own? Did he use that time after escaping from his prison to simply stop hurting ponies? No, he didn’t, so why should Cozy be any different?
She only received one offer of help from the CMC which didn’t even relate to her being a villain. She never received any sort of offer of help afterwards, especially not to help her actually change her ways. And in what way would she want to cause the death of every living pony when she wanted to rule over them? That seems rather counterproductive.
And I’ll ask this: in what way did that personal attention supposed to help her become a better person? Did any of those characters offer her a second chance or try to help her change her ways when they knew she was a villain? How do those count as second chances when people like Chrysalis literally got a hoof extended to her right after her defeat or when Discord got released to be reformed and wasn’t put back immediately even after he mocked the ponies for it? Sure, Cozy interacted with characters, but mere interaction hardly constitutes as any sort of a second chance.
And as explained above, she was given literally none. A second chance is when a character offers another a chance for redemption after the other character did something bad. After Cozy tried to take over the school, was she offered anything? Was there any attempt to help her see a better way? No, there never was.
She was already a criminal at that point who has been sentenced to Tartarus. Do you expect, for her to just waltz up to the Main 6 and offer to help?
She was working with “Grogar”, who was actively antagonizing the trio and who later turned out to be Discord manipulating them into failure, a magic stealing centaur who has already shown to be treacherous when the need calls for it and the former queen of a species who up to that point used deception to get what they wanted.
First, she arguably did that to try and get them into the school and second, she locked them in a closet, not try to seal them beneath the library.
Which is something the heroes did as well.
He literally did everything that he did for his own personal enjoyment. He did not care for the pain of others as long as he got to have his own fun. That to me, is more evil then Cozy could ever be because at least she had a clear goal throughout all of it.
No, she didn’t. She tried to drain all the magic from Equestria, not kill them. Her entire plan was to rule Equestria by having more friends then Twilight. Killing everyone would literally be antithetical to her plan. Sure, you can argue about the destruction it would have caused, but you can also argue that she simply not know that. She required subjects, not corpses.
What are you talking about here? Starlight never tried to help her during the ordeal nor did the two ever get a chance to talk.
This is blatantly wrong. No one tried to plead with Cozy to choose a different path nor did anyone ever try to reach out to her to offer her a different path. There was literally no scene in the show where this happened.
Now if only she was given opportunities to reject.
You keep saying that Cozy got many chances to change, but that simply isn’t true. I showed examples of others receiving them, but you failed to provide any for Cozy. You act like she’s some sort of genocidal monster, but its hard to commit genocide when you want to rule over the people you committing it against. I think your simply imagining scenes that weren’t even there. Heck, Frenemies proves that she at least has the potential to realize something good in her and perhaps change from the better if given proper help, but no, that never happened because she was never given any help.
It’s fine, everyone’s just in a different place.
I just had a SUPER weird day at work today, and somehow this all kind of snapped together in my head as I was thinking about it.
Because stories and telling stories is interesting to me.
And I really want to know - why would someone make a character like Cozy? Her character arc doesn’t seem to fulfill any purpose except for … well … this. Creating the kind of ending where the good guys win over indisputable evil, but they made her a cute kid and “whoopsie” now we have to ask if the ending was child abuse?
It’s a funny place for a cute cartoon about talking horses to end up.
Really makes me wonder if she’s going to show up as a statue in the background of one of the G5 episodes. A statue that is beginning to crack …
Edited
Actually, as I was typing that, I realized that Cozy’s and Catra’s character from the She-Ra reboot had very similar ‘beats’ in their arcs.
Catra knows that pulling the lever to initiate the portal will destroy everything: the world, herself, her love - every single thing will be utterly destroyed and reduced to chaos and noise if she pulls the lever.
And she pulls that lever.
In Catra’s case, we’re shown that it’s motivated by her existential crisis. She’s lost Adora, she’s lost the respect of her friends and the only family she’s ever known. She knows that she’s about to be exposed as a traitor for having betrayed Entrapta which means she’ll even lose her job and most likely her life. She’s at rock bottom - her existential journey has reached that point where she, as a person, doesn’t even really exist any more. She’s not at rock bottom, because that would require that rocks or a bottom still existed.
So she pulls that lever. And laughs as it all goes exactly as horrifically wrong as she knew it would go.
Catra knows she’s going to die. But then her pain will die, too.
In Cozy’s case, it’s hard to say if she even HAD an Existential Journey (note the capital letters), because there simply wasn’t enough personality there to start with for us to see it torn down element by element. Cozy’s character wasn’t capable of having an existential crisis at any time, because there was no ‘existance’.
In Catra’s case, all that it took to show the damage that had been done was one glance. Because her character had enough ‘existance’ for it to be rent asunder.
Same thing for Discord. When he, in the tunnels, learns that Fluttershy - his first friend - had been taken too, then we get to see what he is really made of, and what is truly important in his world.
With Cozy, the writers didn’t give her that much of a story or a personality.
That’s why, for me, she seems best described as a sharp object lesson nailed to a 2-by-4. She doesn’t get a personality, we just get to see her repeatedly ignoring the warning signs that she’s succeeding ‘too much’, and that the damage she tried to cause to one other Pony or to one tiny town or community is actually jeopardizing the entire Pony World.
“Good.” Cozy mutters, grinning as she realizes that her plans were more successful that even she could have imagined.
This is how we end up with characters like Dormammu in the Marvel universe. As Stan Lee himself said, Dormammu was just another piece of business. And before they knew it they had an ultimate evil whose real goals made as much sense as cutting off your own leg. But the practical applications in the story line are subverting everyone else around them.
So, for me, Cozy wasn’t so much a “pony” in the normal sense of characters in the show. Cozy was like Dormammu - a force of subversion that forced OTHER ponies to ‘walk the walk and talk the talk’.
Cozy wasn’t a force to be fought in the normal sense of something you need to beat up - Cozy was a manifestation of the doubt that friendship was enough - a physical expression of the doubt that “Friendship” really is “Magic”, and if it is “Magic”, a test of whether it is “Magic” enough.
I know that’s a weird angle, but I feel like Cozy was presented in the story more like an inevitable force of nature, compressing the slow decay of what Celestia and Twilight had worked to create, and even the things that the Tree Of Harmony had done and that Discord had tried to seed into the world, into just 2 seasons.
And, in the show, Friendship won. It almost didn’t, but it did.
So, yeah - for me, from a story standpoint, I feel like Cozy was less like Discord or Chrysalis or even Tirek or Sombra who had actual backstories and some sort of motivation for what they were doing (albeit paper-thin in some cases), and an inexplicable force of nature testing the very underpinnings of the entirety of the story that is Equestria, like Dormammu.
If you don’t see it that way, that’s fine. No one ever has to agree about anything. Everyone who looks at this will see something else.
But for me Cozy’s entire story arc was about her REFUSING any opportunity she received to chose a different path.
So much so that it really became, for me, shrill near the end. At least Chrysalis could explain herself. And as goofy and as much a “Q” as Discord was even from the beginning, he at least could sit down and say why he thought what he was doing was a good idea, and did choose another path - often.
With Cozy it’s like there wasn’t even a ‘beat’ for her to consider. For me, that lack of even her considering her options is part of why for me she’s less a character and more like a MacGuffin.
Yeah - that’s a good way to say it. Cozy was the MLP equivalent of K.I.T.T. No personality, just features and a MacGuffin to advance the story. But with enough bells and whistles that you THINK there’s a character there, and don’t feel weird when you see them talking or interacting with others in the story.
I’m glad I read this because this is exactly what I wish I could’ve put into words - it’s a shame some people probably won’t though
Edited
Excuse me if I’m wrong about this, because I literally can’t even. But wasn’t that the WHOLE POINT of the episodes she was in during the last two seasons of the show?
Cozy getting helped by the CMC in Marks For Effort and Starlight Glimmer helping Cozy in the same episode, even though Cozy uses is as an opportunity to manipulate others and take advantage of their friendship?
Cozy working with Twilight Sparkle in What Lies Beneath, even though Cozy uses it as an opportunity to manipulate others and take advantage of their trust?
And Cozy keeps showing up in the line for Starlight Glimmer’s office obviously shows that she was receiving ongoing support and help from the school itself - at least as much as other students in the same classes - even though we find out later it was a part of her manipulation of Starlight to gain her trust and to figure out how best to attack her?
I mean, we could go on. Cozy was in a crapload of shows in the last two seasons, mostly doing exactly the same thing - trying to find out how to maximize her control of others, and absolutely ignoring any opportunity to change her chosen path.
But - that’s how she’s written.
You think she wasn’t offered any chances. But we see her character repeatedly ignoring any offer of help, refusing any real friendship, and using every opportunity that she can find to - and lets be clear about this - not just maximize her ability to hurt others, but to cause serious harm or even death to every pony living in Equestria.
It seems like Cozy got more second chances than most ponies, getting personal attention and care from the CMC (who Cozy keeps taking advantage of and manipulating) and Twilight and Starlight, as well as even Rusty Bucket and other ponies along the way.
The fact is, Cozy was given first, second, and even third and fourth and fifth chances. That was inevitable simply because of how her character arc was written. But every step along the way Cozy turned those chances into opportunities to manipulate and harm others.
Her decision to sabotage the Summer Sun celebration rather than participating in it or helping with it, her decision to use the Bewitching Bell for her own personal gains instead of using it to liberate herself and her friends, her choice to intentionally sabotage the CMC’s efforts to help her and then to seal them beneath the library, and even Cozy’s decision to celebrate the defeat and imprisoning of others is just another example of Cozy consistently choosing the path that gains her the most and hurts others the most.
Even at his worse, Discord was just an asshole and a massive annoyance. He ruined people’s houses, he undid public works that might have taken years, and he even destroyed crops that I’m sure a lot of ponies were very dependent on. But he was never cruel about it. He never celebrated the pain of others.
Every time Cozy has to make a choice, she chooses the path of maximum harm for others and maximum benefit for herself. Anyone else around Cozy is just there to manipulate and take advantage of, and every opportunity Cozy ever received was just used by her to gloat at her victory (like she did every time she was able to get someone else in a bad position), laughing as others asked for help, and doubling down on her own horrible choices every time she realized that she was hurting ponies worse than she’d intended, or even destroying the underpinnings of how Equestria survives in the process.
And, since you seem to have missed this part, do recall that her ‘reveal as a villain’ was that time she tried to literally kill every pony in all of Equestria but failed, despite all of her attempts to succeed - even after she realized that what she was doing was SO MUCH WORSE than what she’d set out to do (did you notice that? Another missed chance - she tries to just fuck things up but ends up nearly ending all pony life and instead of changing her mind and rethinking what she’s doing she doubles down and tries harder because HA HA HA MAYBE EVERYONE WILL BE DEAD I WIN HA HA HA) and even as she’s laughing at Glimmer who is still somehow more concerned about Cozy and helping Cozy ‘be a good pony’ than herself or her own survival.
Cozy repeatedly rejected every chance for help, every chance to not go too far, every chance to choose a different path - not just second chances but all of them. The big chances and the little chances. Even the small chances being offered by her victims as they pleaded to help Cozy choose a different path even as Cozy was … I don’t know - name a horrible thing that Cozy was doing to any pony at any time - even at those times everypony around Cozy was trying to reach out to her, to offer her a different path.
But, be fair - that is almost entirely her character arc. Rejecting any overture anyone ever makes to be her friend is fundamental to her character - it’s how she’s written.
If Cozy HAD accepted offers of help for any reason other than a vile manipulation of someone else, then she wouldn’t be true to her character arc.
So it was important for the writers to SHOW Cozy REJECTING opportunities to choose a different path, to turn aside from hurting others or destroying all of Equestria. If they hadn’t included that in the show then Cozy would have just been an even more 2-dimensional villain with an incomplete and nonsensical character arc.
But they showed it. Repeatedly. Because Cozy is, in a show filled with friendship lessons, not just the anti-friend, but the sharp object lesson nailed to the end of a two-by-four because for some reason some people simply were incapable of hearing the simple ‘friendship is magic’ message being shouted at the top of the show’s lungs for 7 years.
It’s not that she didn’t get any chances. She got tons of chances.
It’s that she’s the ultimate irredeemable villain who choses over and over and over to not stop when she’s gone too far. To laugh while others are in agony because of her plans yet still somehow trying to talk to her about the danger of what she is doing - not just to all of Equestria but to Cozy herself.
Cozy’s job wasn’t to teach lessons about being friends with irredeemable assholes like Discord - her job was to provide sharp object lessons about remaining friends with each other and supporting your friends even when faced by an irredeemable bully who literally doesn’t care if she kills you or even herself in gaining her inexplicable goals.
Cozy is the monster that wants to eat life itself, even if that means that she herself will die.
It’s funny to me that the show got out that 2-by-4 at the end of Friendship Is Magic. It’s a dark place to go.
But they went there. And they went there with a freaking vengeance.
Edited
that don’t sound right
Cozy Glow, unlike most other villains, was never given any sort or second chance. She was never released to be reformed, had multiple time loops worth of Twilight trying to help her, have someone demand to give her a chance or even offered a hoof. She was pretty much given up on almost immediately after her reveal as a villain and was sent to Tartarus overnight (remember when the CMC escaped from the closet).
In short, Cozy Glow was never given any sort of second chance and help despite the fact that other, much more dangerous villains were given it and the fact that she was literally a child. Therefore, Porndump96 was wrong in his statement.
elaborate
Among which there were literally zero.
“One goes into an experiment knowing one could fail.”
“But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one has failed.”