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Starlight Glimmer Appreciation Thread

MegaAnimationFan
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I guess I got a question for you fans as well. I honestly don’t know if I asked his but screw it, I’ll bite
 
Did any of you have a problem with Starlight’s backstory? If so how would you rewrite it? And if you didn’t have a problem with it or thought it worked, why did it to you?
 
I know it’s weird to ask a question about a something that doesn’t even matter at all, but I saw an Equestia Daily on a “soapbox” post that had a section about her backstory and in typical fashion, how bad it was and made a tl;dr version of what they came up with even though it was the same damn backstory with a small tweak and added stuff to it so it’s it’s as “re-written” as the Lion King remake and it was that was posted only a couple of days ago. So I wanted to know if anyone really still cared about that and is that person right in saying that her backstory is the one thing that fans and haters agree on
 
I’m not gonna rant, I swear. I’m just curious
Cosmas-the-Explorer
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Explorer in Training
@MegaAnimationFan  
I think with her backstory it’s that I was expecting more of a utopian leader backstory where she would explain how her best friend was mocked because he didn’t have a cutie mark. But it felt like it was more about herself and it felt less like some well intentioned utopian cult leader trying to make a better world and more just about herself.
 
I think for all of Season 5 Starlight was hyped to be some grand epic villian but I would’ve much rather had an overly maternal villian that would want to achieve harmony through her maniacal ways.
 
That’s at least my take. I still like her though. This backstory could’ve been improved though.
 
edit: to add clarification, I wish Starlight and the CMC would’ve interacted. It would’ve challenged both sides to reconsider their ideas. I think this would’ve been an even better finale.
DarkObsidian
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@Westerlies
 
Of course! And I would take her to Stalliongrad with the help of my comrades through our underground network of Antifa, BLM, and RAF ponies. Who would hand over a political refugee like her to these neo-fascist government agencies infiltrated by Changelings? For Equality! For Comrade Starlight! Long live the Resistance!
 
;-D
DerpyFast
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@MegaAnimationFan  
I think her backstory pays off in satisfying ways in episodes like Uncommon Bond and The Ending of The End part 1. But it really does not gel with her motivation as a villain, or the subtext of the episodes where she’s the villain. It needed more connecting tissue.
MegaAnimationFan
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@Cosmas-the-Explorer  
@DerpyFast  
I was afraid of that. Not really surprised, but whateves
 
However I would argue that it ties with what she was trying to do. Like yea it was a personal experience that scarred her young fragile mind but it was still a well intentioned thing. She wanted to save others the pain that she endured. If it were truly selfish then she would’ve pulled a Moondancer and just kept to herself and act like an ass to everyone she encounters
gingerninja666
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Kaze ni Nare

 
Aside from the art, I really liked this scene in The Beginning of the End. Lots of people focused in on Starlight’s “Twilighting”, which was funny, but I liked that she used what she knew about Twilight to maneuver Twi into arguing her own point for her. She knows that Twilight ultimately has a handle on things when the chips are down and a friend needs help. It’s also a rare flash back to Starlight’s scheming side, used for a completely positive purpose, even if it didn’t work.
 
**Starlight Glimmer**: Uh... I can't! I'm not ready! Remember what happened the last time you left me in charge?! And now you want me to do it permanently?! What if I don't do the right things?! [hyperventilates] What if—?!  
Twilight Sparkle: Starlight, get a hold of yourself! You’ve risen to every challenge you’ve ever faced. You can do anything you put your mind to. You’ve got this.
**Starlight Glimmer**: Hah! And so do you. See what I did there? You just said everything *you* need to hear.
DarkObsidian
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@MegaAnimationFan
 
That’s an interesting question. Well, I admit, I had never actually any problems with her background story, but probably for reasons other than others. First of all, I was 35 years old in 2015. It might sound a little stupid now, but with age you are usually more willing to accept certain things. Growing up in the 80s and 90s, I was used to plot holes in cartoon shows, and if we’re honest, they were already plentiful in MLP at this time. I remember very well, for example, the Canterlot Window Incident in Season Four Finale. The one that makes Lord Tirek aware of Twilight’s existence. And the fierce discussions in the fandom back then about this. It is precisely these little things, these details that perhaps do not seem important or insignificant to the writers, but often cast a great shadow.
 
Well, I found Starlight and her Equality Philosophy very sympathetic with the season five Premiere. I’m more fond of the bad characters anyway. In any case, I was very impressed at that time. Who would have expected to see a PoW situation and a quasi totalitarian cult in a kids show? So I was very excited about season five. And I wasn’t really disappointed, except for a few exceptions. The Season Five Finale belongs to my Top 5 to date due to its concept of alternative timelines. And I was lucky to see it relatively spoiler-free.
 
Well, and then came the sequence with Starlights (cough) backstory. I admit, at the first moment I hadn’t seen it so critically. It was actually a little short (too short, but I had this opinion only later) and I myself had already lost friends, so I was able to understand Starlight’s trauma a little bit. Only then did the shitstorm go through the ceiling and I had to rethink my opinion.  
To this day, I think that the criticism of her backstory is justified, but also very exaggerated. Many of the fans I talked to back then and all the years later – and to be honest, I have also had a lot of fights with others – met me with open hostility and let their hatred of Starlight run wild. The only way I can explain this is that there were several factors that came together here.
 
Until the flashback in Starlight’s childhood, the finale was brilliantly written in my opinion. In the end, however, it seemed that there was not enough time left to go into more detail about Starlight’s trauma. That the villagers forgave her just like that was really rushed. This has counteracted the message of how important repentance can be.  
It was already again this bad habit of the show to forgive every opponent immediately. Well, please don’t get me wrong. I love giving characters a second chance. But I can understand the displeasure of many fans that once again everything was good with just a snap of the fingers. The epic battle between Twilight and Lord Tirek has given many fans hope for a slightly different outcome. But that may not be the issue now.
 
A second important point in my opinion was the striking similarity between Starlight Glimmer and Sunset Shimmer. And that unicorns were once again established as the master race, who can do anything. That Starlight was also equally strong with Twilight, as far as the power of their magic is concerned, that was too much for many fans. Personally, this may not have been so important to me, but indeed, the show has handled Twilights Counterparts very badly so far. And why Starlight Glimmer instead of Sunset Shimmer was made the seventh ranger was not really understandable for most fans.  
Personally, I already knew that, since Hasbro/DHX repeatedly emphasized that they wanted to keep EQG and MLP as separate as possible. But it was precisely through Rainbow Rocks that Sunset gained immense popularity. In the logic of the Starlight Glimmer opponents meant that: why do we still need such a character like that, who at the first moment is much less sympathetic? Well, I didn’t see it that way back then. And I don’t think I need to mention how ridiculous the comparison between Starlight and Adolf Hitler was. Especially as a German, I felt relatively offended at that time. What annoyed me more was the fact that some fans and also well-known Bronies actually used this as a legitimate argument not to want to forgive Starlight Glimmer at least for season six and seven.
 
To sum it up: Starlights’ far too short backstory caused a kind of schism in the fandom for several reasons, which lasted for relatively long years. It is not without reason that there were two very controversial threads in the Derpibooru forum that had been dedicated to this topic. Thank God that time is over now. However, I miss it a little bit already, to argue passionately from time to time. Especially when I have nothing to do on the weekend and a bottle of whiskey is next to me. Har har har! Just kidding. ;-D
 
At that time and as today, I was definitely always on Starlight’s side.
 
 
To the question of what I would have done differently, well, I can answer relatively briefly: almost nothing. If anything, I would have expanded the sequence in childhood with some impressions of her later years of life in complete seclusion. And how much she studied magic, but never dared to go to Celestia’s school. And I definitely would have mentioned that Starlight tried to contact Sunburst, but he never answered. And I would have deleted the scene with the villagers’ forgiveness and postponed it to season six. It would have been better if Starlight had tried to make contact with the villagers throughout the entire season, but she always lost her courage until she finally got the invitation in the season finale.
 
Actually, I can live very well with Starlight’s background story, although of course I still have to ask myself, what happened to her mother? I’ve never been a friend of how MLP handles the (meaning) death of characters. Except for the death of the parents of the Apple family. At the very least, I would have liked to have had the slightest hint, so that I do not always have to resort to pure speculation during any discussions. In my headcanon, Starlight is a latchkey child, the parents live apart. I wouldn’t have needed another explanation, but how dramatic it would have been, for example, if you had seen in the flashback in Starlight’s past how her mother left the family. In this sense, I would have written the script differently and tried to convince the show staff. After all, we saw the pony version of a world war. Given that, you’d think a much more tragic past of Starlight isn’t too much for a kids show, would you?
 
Well, sorry, if I’ve written a little too much now. I enjoy sharing my thoughts with the fandom from time to time. I hope we will have such moments again with G5. ;-D
Vivace
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“ShimSham my GlimGlams”
@DarkObsidian  
I’d reframe the entire forgiveness montage to hint that it was nothing but a dream. The montage concludes, fades away to black; the camera blinks as if awakening, cuts to a view of Starlight as she gets up and out of bed with the new manestyle; she sets the covers, takes a deep breath, then exits her bedroom to look for Twilight, the S5 finale ends. Or the fade-away could go white, then pop! like a dream bubble, cut to Starlight, and proceed as I said before.
MegaAnimationFan
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@DarkObsidian  
So every fan but me does find it problematic in one way or another. Or has some issue with it. Interesting
 
On a side note am I the only one who thinks it’s ludicrous that everyone wants like a book’s worth of info of the inner workings of Starlight’s mind and every stupid detail of her childhood (and like 80% of those people demanding such a thing don’t even like her enough to sit though an episode of her with an open mind so what the hell is the point?) while she literally has no less backstory than any of the main or supporting characters. Hell, a lot of them have NO backstory at all.
 
Though it’s funny you mention Sunset. Because I firmly believe that if she never existed she wouldn’t have nearly as much haters nor would she spark so much controversy. Or at the very least they wouldn’t be as as vocal and would’ve just lived with it by now. People would still have issues no doubt, but it would just come and go like with Twilicorn or the library blowing up and later with Flurry Heart. But that is sadly not the case. Because soooooo many people wanted more Sunset which honestly I never got. I mean I never hated her, I just didn’t see why literally everyone and their mother flocked toward her as SOON as Rainbow Rocks came out. I found her arc fine in that film but it wasn’t anything spectacular, if anything it has it’s own set of problems that I know everyone will call nitpicking which is very ironic. And they thought that one scene at the last minute of the film right before the credits was a set and stone plot point of her being a part of the show somehow and blame Starlight for that not being the case even though if Starlight didn’t exist, that still wouldn’t be a thing. I honestly think this whole Starlight (and even Sunset) thing is mob mentality. Or in this case heard mentality. Because I see very little, if any, logic in it.
 
 
I enjoy sharing my thoughts with the fandom from time to time. I hope we will have such moments again with G5. ;-D
 
Sadly I don’t. This whole mess kind of traumatized me (I’ve dealt with this crap both online and irl at conventions) and I really do not wanna go through it again. I don’t even know if I wanna see G5 honestly. But you all enjoy without me. I sincerely hope you all like it
Cosmas-the-Explorer
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Explorer in Training
@MegaAnimationFan  
For what it’s worth, I think I am starting to enjoy her backstory a bit more. You have made me think about Starlight’s backstory in a more positive way. I guess in the end it’s preferance. I think many people, including myself, would’ve prefered like a whole episode dedicated to her backstory with long emotional drama and all that. But I also understand it might not always be required for many other people. They still gave enough info for us to work with.
 
So even if I would’ve personally peferred her backstory to be written a different way, I could say that about a lot of characters backstories like Rarity’s, and Starlight’s backstory is still a good backstory.
 
I guess people have their own preferences. But even if I preferred it written a different way, perhaps just for the sake of fanfic alternate theories, I think I’m starting to like her backstory.
 
PS Starlight and Sunset are different! I don’t get why people compare the two.
AC97
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@DarkObsidian
So every fan but me does find it problematic in one way or another. Or has some issue with it. Interesting
On a side note am I the only one who thinks it’s ludicrous that everyone wants like a book’s worth of info of the inner workings of Starlight’s mind and every stupid detail of her childhood (and like 80% of those people demanding such a thing don’t even like her enough to sit though an episode of her with an open mind so what the hell is the point?) while she literally has no less backstory than any of the main or supporting characters. Hell, a lot of them have NO backstory at all.
Though it’s funny you mention Sunset. Because I firmly believe that if she never existed she wouldn’t have nearly as much haters nor would she spark so much controversy. Or at the very least they wouldn’t be as as vocal and would’ve just lived with it by now. People would still have issues no doubt, but it would just come and go like with Twilicorn or the library blowing up and later with Flurry Heart. But that is sadly not the case. Because soooooo many people wanted more Sunset which honestly I never got. I mean I never hated her, I just didn’t see why literally everyone and their mother flocked toward her as SOON as Rainbow Rocks came out. I found her arc fine in that film but it wasn’t anything spectacular, if anything it has it’s own set of problems that I know everyone will call nitpicking which is very ironic. And they thought that one scene at the last minute of the film right before the credits was a set and stone plot point of her being a part of the show somehow and blame Starlight for that not being the case even though if Starlight didn’t exist, that still wouldn’t be a thing. I honestly think this whole Starlight (and even Sunset) thing is mob mentality. Or in this case heard mentality. Because I see very little, if any, logic in it.
 
I’m not gonna claim Starlight’s backstory was perfect, but it’s not hard to notice that people do kinda resort to headcanon while calling Luna’s good, and they’ll take Starlight’s at 100% face value, go “why didn’t she even try to write” (which Parent Map kinda implied the reason was “Stellar Flare conditioned Sunburst to read nothing from ‘Sire’s Hollow’ and throw them out,” just add in a period of time for her hesitating out of nervousness, which could easily happen).
 
Rainbow Rocks, while enjoyable, was kind of narratively manipulative in that it mostly erased Sunset’s negative qualities offscreen, and put you in the position of “sympathize with poor Sunset, suffering from her past.” She had it too together as a character, not enough internal conflict regarding her morals.
 
I don’t fundamentally dislike Sunset as a character, to be clear, but her backstory makes literally no sense relating to what she was doing in the first movie, because you’d think a prodigy of magic seeking demigodhood would have more to gain going rogue in Equestria, rather than her being powerless except as a petty bully, and her plans didn’t make sense for a related note, and her subsequent portrayals didn’t really reflect her starting point that well.
 
Sunset Shimmer: Pop quiz: what happens when you bring an Element of Harmony into an alternate world? You don’t know? Seriously? [laughing] And you’re supposed to be Princess Celestia’s star student? Then again, what were the chances she’d find somepony as bright as me to take under her wing after I decided to leave Equestria? Bit embarrassing that you were the best she could do.
 
The problem with say, that quote is, it literally makes no sense at all. Twilight didn’t know it existed, the Element of Magic, so how could she have any knowledge on it doing anything special in a low inherent magic world? We never got a plausible explanation.
 
With Starlight, you can understand her motives in that beneath her mask, she was driven by being emotionally hurt/abandonment issues… Sunset just seemed inherently kinda power-hungry and petty enough to bully Fluttershy, and shifted to being a practical paragon on short-notice, whereas Starlight actually seemed to like Fluttershy, given that even if she had ulterior motives, she helped her twice, by helping her fly, and stopping her from being bullied.
 
…it’s also amusing that I’ve seen it be claimed that Sunset is a hothead, but Starlight cannot be one because “sociopaths don’t have emotions,” when All Bottled Up showed her power is tied to emotions in S7… and how she’s generally emotional.
 
(And no, contrary to what I’ve seen said, it’s not like emotions affecting power is a later season concept, between Nightmare Moon, Fluttershy towing a hot air balloon with Twilight and Applejack managing to catch up to Rainbow Dash who was also weighed down by Pinkie and Rarity in The Return of Harmony, or how Chrysalis both grew strong enough to beat Celestia and was beaten from love, or the Windigos as seen in Hearth’s Warming Eve, how Clover and the other two beat them with harmony, no Elements needed, and All Bottled Up did make it clear you still had to focus/concentrate on what you’re doing… so if you hate that concept, emotions affecting power, I feel it’s a lot more deep-rooted into the show than you might think, back to the series premiere arguably)
 
 
>>2201469p
 
…in short, the problem with Rainbow Rocks, is it’s not about Sunset becoming a better person, it’s about her proving to the world she is already there.
 
Starlight’s plots seem to be her learning not to be a general wreck, and by the time of S9, she really isn’t one, but she didn’t start there after reforming, as seen by S6.
 
It’s really strange how there’s people who acted like Starlight “stole” Sunset’s place in the show, when it’s obvious that EQG, and Sunset by extension, was always going to be rather self-contained as a rule.
 
…and wow that was a long post, filled with perhaps more rambling than needed.
DerpyFast
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The Cutie Remark should have absolutely ended on a more uncertain note for Starlight, and used the time taken up by the song to better develop her backstory. Especially considering that, unlike The Mane Six, the show is trying to give Starlight’s bad actions some actual weight.
 
I think the real problem with the backstory is that it feels less weighty than Starlight’s actions would suggest. The Cutie Map explores why “Equality of Outcomes” is oppressive, and The Cutie Re-Mark is about how you have to judge the status quo against how bad things could be, rather than against some utopian ideal. One of the core themes of the show is self-actualization, which is symbolized by the cutie mark. If a pony is going to reject and oppose a fundamental idea of her civilization, it needs to be for a deeper reason than “she’s sad that her friend left”.
MegaAnimationFan
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@DerpyFast  
Tempest had a similar backstory and and she was actively responsible for a takeover. But nooooo one complains about that. You’d think so, but I guess loosing her horn got people more on her side. Which to me seems more ridiculous because that’s like helping a power hungry usurper because your friends didn’t wanna hang out with you because you were basically handicapped. This is kind of what I mean with the whole double standard thing. And give the writers credit at least they subtlety added little things here and there for us to fill in the blanks and see how her mind works so we can at least get where she was coming from. For crying out loud she thought being angry with a friend for fucking up and not caring would loose her aid friend. Considering she did absolutely nothing and lost Sunburst just like that I can see why she’d think that. Speaking of Sunburst, she thought she’d loose him again when she thought they’ve grown apart due to changing interests. At LEAST that’s something. With someone like Tempest or Stygian, they get nothing after they change, even if they’re backstory is just as simple with the same exact extreme outcome
 
Thing is the writers almost have no time to write something with a lot of depth (or Hasbro won’t let them) so what we get is minimal. Thing is, people willingly excepts all other times that has happened but actively target Starlight like she’s the only one with this problem even though she’s not and she’s not even the worst example. These arguments can literally be made for any other character but people actively ignore that for some reason
 
@Cosmas-the-Explorer  
Yeah, it IS down to preference. But it seems no one prefers Starlight’s reformation and backstory
 
 
@AC97  
Rainbow Rocks, while enjoyable, was kind of narratively manipulative in that it mostly erased Sunset’s negative qualities offscreen, and put you in the position of “sympathize with poor Sunset, suffering from her past.” She had it too together as a character, not enough internal conflict regarding her morals.
 
Thank you! finally someone other than ME says it. I find it ridiculous how everyone thinks Sunset has the better arc and is the better character considering we totally skip the transformation from bad to good and she’s just…Good. Despite having zero good qualities in the previous movie. At least Starlight’s arc went though all the steps of someone going through a personal journey, Sunset just skipped and entire important step. But for some reason no one notices. That’s why Sunset comes off as a bit flat to me. Likable, but still a little flat. She has little to no character flaw. I mean they tried with her anger but that was way after Rainbow Rocks, Hell it didn’t even happen until well after Legend of Everfree. On top of that, it’s almost never presented as a legit flaw. It’s mostly played up like a funny quirk and the times they do play it straight the writers go out of their way to justify it (complete opposite of Starlight where no matter how justified or reasonable her blow ups are they ALWAYS paint her as the bad guy). So it’s not really a flaw because it’s never the cause of any conflict nor does it make any situation worse.
 
And thanks for being the only other one to point out the hypocrisy with the criticisms against Starlight like her power levels and how it fluctuates due to her emotions like almost every other character. Hell sometimes with other characters it fluctuates because the plot demanded it. So why is it ok for them but not for her?
 
Btw I love that gif where it shows Glim petting/comforting Flutters. I guess she has a soft spot for her (she knows what it’s like to be scared and alone so it makes sense) and it’s funny because Starlight’s VA’s favorite mane character is Fluttershy so it works on a meta sense too X) On top of that it’s cute AF
DerpyFast
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@MegaAnimationFan  
No, there’s no shortage of double standards when it comes to Starlight. I do think she had a good redemption arc in seasons 6 and 7, and the ideas explored with her as the villain are really compelling. But the purpose of a villain’s backstory is to explain what motivates them, and show why they might be worthy of redemption. It’s supposed to be the glue that holds it all together, and Starlight’s backstory just doesn’t do it. Marks and Recreation does a much better job of showing how a character might arrive at the conclusions Starlight did.
 
Tempest’s story works because her backstory shows that she’s a good person who got dealt a bad hand, and it’s easy to see how she would be traumatized by it. All of the abilities she’s developed are the result of her working to overcome her disability. Even as the villain, she’s still polite, respectful, and professional, and you can empathize with her work not being appreciated by The Storm King. She’s an anti-villain; a good person compelled to do bad things by circumstance. The third act of the movie is her realizing just how little she actually needs The Storm King.
MegaAnimationFan
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@DerpyFast  
Sounds like a bunch of excuses and jumping through hoops to me.
 
I mean you’re not even trying to give Starlight’s backstory a second thought. I know it’s not the popular thing to do but jeez you can at least try. Especially as a fan. What, is Tempest missing a horn is why everyone flocks to her as well? That’d be strange because I know that if that happened to Starlight everyone wouldn’t be swayed. In fact people WANTED her to lose her horn.
MegaAnimationFan
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You know what? I think I know the real issue with Starlight and her writing. They shouldn’t have made her a villain. Because the way I see it, no one would buy her motives (no matter how much sense it makes). If she were just a real troubled individual people wouldn’t complain as much. I mean it’s obvious that she is just a troubled character who’s also an extremist with good intentions and the one time she HAD ill intentions she didn’t want it to go as far as it did, but what do I know?
DerpyFast
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I appreciate that the conversation is over, but for posterity’s sake:
 
I’m willing to see the connection between Starlight’s backstory and her village:
 
*Sunburst is exceptional and different  
*Being exceptional and different caused Starlight to lose a friend  
*If no one is exceptional or different, then no one has to lose friends  
*Only she can be trusted to be exceptional, in service of The Greater Good
 
The problem is that while you can argue that there’s a logical connection to be made, it’s not an organic connection. It’s fine as an inciting incident, but it needed more connective tissue. Friends moving away is just part of life. A person might become a zealous cult leader because of it, but the more likely outcome is that they just find a way to stay in touch and/or move on and make new friends.
 
It works with Tempest because she sustained a life-altering injury, and confronted the reality that some friends can’t or won’t be there for you. What used to be literal child’s play was suddenly beyond her ability. The consequences of the injury suggest a much clearer path to what she ultimately became:
 
*She was unable to defend herself, so it follows that she would learn how to fight.  
*Since she can’t rely on normal magic, it makes sense that she would become physically fit to compensate. She goes from not being able to pick up a ball, to kicking an orb with pinpoint accuracy.  
*She can shoot raw energy from her horn, which is an ability she refines.  
*This eventually manifests as the ability to shoot fireworks, which is a powerful message about recognizing one’s own strengths and overcoming limitations.
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