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Remember, they got their marks for helping Diamond Tiara figure out the meaning of her cutie mark…Which doesn’t really make sense, considering figuring out your special talent results in getting a cutie mark representing that talent…
Don’t worry, they’ll find new ways to waste screen time.
I assume it’s Spanish for ‘what’.
And, where on earth in that theory does it say all the ponies in school have their cutie marks?
Pipsqueak doesn’t, for one. And I’m sure there are plenty others. And it may not be just kids they can help anyway.
Well if the ponies at the school are the youngest generation of ponies that are concerned about getting their cutie marks (which would exclude ponies that are toddler/filly age, who wouldn’t be that concered about cutie marks) then it would be assumable that everyone in ponyville has cutie marks.
Also, what does “Que” mean?
Que?
Since the CMC now have their cutie marks; will they have more episodes?
Think about it. All of their episodes revolved around trying to get their cutie marks, but now they have their ||Eyesores/||cutie marks and understand them completely. And since there is no-one in ponieville without a cutie mark (except for spike and the baby twins), what would they do now?
Yeah, he’s ready to accept that he’s just not good at performing in rodeos normally, so his special talent at least lets him perform at rodeos in some compacity.
They might have been laughing at him, but in the environment of a rodeo clown, they would be properly laughing with him, instead.
Again, the cutie mark appeared right when he started the screwed up stunt, not the normal ones, and different writers will handle cutie marks appearing differently, as appearance time has not been restricted in the lore to that degree.
@archestereo
I know the definition of a klutz. That does not counter the fact that some people enjoy watching clumsiness, and for a klutz that is okay with that and willing to use it, that’s a positive.
@Background Pony #D031
Clumsiness isn’t his skill, his skill is “utilizing his clumsiness to entertain”. That IS a skill, even if one that requires clumsiness in order to express it. Someone with his clumsiness, but without his talent would mess up just as much as Troubleshoes, but it would be in waya that don’t make others laugh nearly as effectively. Something like NASCAR driving is only an upgrade to pit crewing if you care more about the pay or prestige than how well you fit it and enjoy it, which is the whole basis of cutie marks. If you had a pit crew cutie mark, then NASCAR driving would likely be considered a downgrade, considering the fulfillment ponies feel by following their cutie mark. Many would find pay and prestige to be irrelevant compared to enjoyment, even in real life.
That’s true for real life, but ponies have always shown a greater than average proficiency for their special talents even before training, even if they’re not experts yet. Troubleshoes never trained at being a rodeo clown and was still instinctively amazing at it, Twilight learned to levitate at an extremely young age (and no, she wasn’t about to fail her entrance exam; word of god says that entrants were expected to fail to hatch the dragon egg), Fluttershy could already connect with animals, Pinkie threw a great party without any practice, etc.
Cutie marks have been shown to be nonintuitive elsewhere (how does a star represent magic, or a tiara represent getting ponies to do what you want?), so there’s no in-story reason that a horseshoe can’t represent what it does.
You know that bad writing is often subjective, right? Just because you believe the episode to be bad writing does not make it so. I’ve found your reasoning as to why the episode’s writing is bad to be just as weak as you believe my “theories” are, as would a number of other people that have agreed with me in the past on this. What an asapull or not is also often subjective; I personally feel that this episode was plenty in terms of foreshadowing. There are other episodes that I feel have bad writing (like Tanks for the Memories), but I don’t believe that Appleloosa’s Most Wanted is one if them (besides being a bit boring, IMO).
Anyway, since it’s clear that none of us with convince the other, this will be my last post (for real this time, since I won’t be checking this image again).
You’ve stated that preforming in a rodeo and being a rodeo clown take different skills several times now, pretty sure everyone here gets that point and even understood that beforehand. The point is that’s not his supposed skill, it’s just that his clumsiness just so happens to be a good substitute for the skillset needed for being a rodeo clown. Screwing up every single thing you do isn’t exactly a skill and it’s certainly nothing to base a career off of. Again, back to my Nascar analogy. Yes they take different skills, but it’s still settling for second place.
It’s also worth noting that, for most people, talent doesn’t come naturally. Being a prodigy is kinda rare, people just aren’t born with the skill to draw or to drive Nascar or whatever. Even Troubleshoes in the episode said he was auditioning for Rodeo School, meaning he was trying to get in to learn the skills needed to be apart of the rodeo. Even Twilight had to study really hard to git gud at using her magic and she even nearly failed her own entrance exam into the school for gifted unicorns.
Fact is the episode was poorly written all the way around. His cutie mark is a horseshoe, which in no way represents being a rodeo clown or being clumsy, the whole conflict was silly and stupid and the resolution was an asspull because the person who wrote the episode wrote themselves into a corner. Nothing wrong with admitting an episode is bad and unfortunately canon now, but don’t try to justify bad writing with equally bad theories as to why everything “totally works out perfectly.”
I don’t even have a problem with the CMC having CMC cutie marks (even though that was an asspull, too,) I just think the color choice was really bad and because of that they generally look ugly and out of place on them.
“Being a klutz is not an attribute with zero positives”
…do I need to copypasta a dictionary’s definition of “klutz” for you? ‘Cuz that’s like saying blindness can be positive; sure, a blind pony might get a cutie mark for echolocation, but that would’ve naturally developed in compensation for an impairment (not to mention the poor bastard can’t even see his own goddamn cutie mark).
We should think about what happened with the judges at his tryout. They were most certainly laughing at him, despite whatever Apple Bloom (who wasn’t there) may have thought. He wasn’t trying to be funny, he was doing a serious audition. That was why he ran away in embarrassment. Cutie marks appear precisely when a pony connects with their “destiny”, not before.
Almost forgot; why would it being a side effect of his klutz mean that it can’t be his special talent? His klutziness is an inherent part of him, and he can use it towards his special talent just like Twilight can use her intelligence towards hers, Pinkie can use her easy going personality towards hers, or Rainbow Dash can use her wings towards hers.
Being a klutz is not an attribute with zero positives; as shown in the episode, it can be used to make others laugh, and it can help him perform his special talent.
It’s not settling if him being a rodeo clown is his greatest skill. Being a rodeo clown, and performing in rodeos conventionally take completely different skillsets, and take completely different people (or ponies in this case). You don’t upgrade from one to the other. Even if it was an “upgrade”, it wouldn’t keep these events from happening, because some people are just naturally more gifted than others. Having your special talent be something doesn’t mean you’re automatically better in it than everyone else with a similar talent, or even than skilled people without said talent, it just means that it’s your greatest talent. For example, I’d bet there are ponies out there with cutie marks in organizing, that have worse organization skill than Twilight, just because of how good she is at it despite it not being her cutie mark.
He wanted to be a normal rodeo performer when he was young, but what you originally want to do and what you’re skilled at and enjoy are often not the same thing. When I was younger, I planned on becoming a biologist when I grew up. I figured out later that I wouldn’t have been very good at it, and then later found the profession that I WAS good at and enjoy (physics). Troubleshoes is the same. He originally wanted to be a rodeo performer (like I wanted to be a biologist), but found that he wasn’t good at it, and eventually, with the help of the CMC, found his true special talent and meaning of his cutie mark, being a rodeo clown (like I eventually became a physicist).
The “he got it wrong” point isn’t valid either, considering the writers have made it a point on two occasions now that the CMC are good at helping other ponies find the true meanings to their mark, and we have five different ponies commenting on just how spectacular of a rodeo clown he is. Even if you look at the short period of time before he messed up in the flashback, the judges were not amazed, so even without his clumsiness kicking in, he’s average at normal rodeos at best, while everyone agreed that he’s amazing as a rodeo clown.
It seems more like being a rodeo clown is simply a side effect of him being a klutz, not that it’s what he was meant to do. Even him stating as much isn’t worth all that much because we see ponies who don’t understand their own Cutie Marks, such as Diamond Tiara before the CMC helped her.
Again, it just feels like he’s settling for second best and making a false assumption on what his Cutie Mark means. How does a regular horse shoe represent being a rodeo clown in any way?
The exact timing is irrelevant, when not only has the exact timing of a cutie mark appearing never been clearly stated (Apple Bloom certainly thought it was possible to get a cutie mark in her sleep), but different writers may write such an ambiguous topic as cutie mark apperances differently. A few seconds either way doesn’t matter in the least, compared to the many statements afterwards by Troubleshoes, the CMC, Applejack, and the judge.
If you want to say that the cutie mark appearing a few, negligible seconds before instead of after is a plothole or bad writing because it disagrees with your idea that cutie marks can only appear after the demonstrated skills in question (which I would disagree with, considering it appeared at the moment he started the stunt that demonstrated it), then I don’t care, but it doesn’t change that the entire moral of the episode was the CMC successfully helping him find the true meaning of his mark.
There are many things in the series that don’t seem to make much sense, but they have to be taken as truth because reliable characters said it was true (alicorn magic looking the exact same as dark magic, for example), and this is a kid’s show that caters towards making the plot understandable to all ages. They wouldn’t write a “fake-out” involving six different characters being wrong and never follow up on it ever again.
Exactly.
Okay, I guess I’m changing my mind about not posting anymore.
You ARE aware that what you WANT to do when you’re younger is not necessarily the same as your special talent, right? Just because it was Troubleshoes’s goal to participate in a rodeo does not mean in the least that it has anything to do with his special talent.
A cutie mark does NOT represent what you enjoy the most, or what you want to do the most when you’re younger, but what you’re best at and feel most “right” doing. None of those quotes about what he wanted to do when he was younger has anything to do with his future cutie mark whatsoever.
Troubleshoes explicitly, and with no room for interpretation, says that being a rodeo clown via his clumsiness is what he’s meant to do. That’s what a cutie mark is!
Every single time someone comments on his actions, they say he’s a great rodeo clown. The CMC, the judge, Applejack, all of them specifically say he’s a great rodeo clown, not a great rodeo participant in general, and Troubleshoes agrees.
Yeah, a ‘clumsiness rodeo clown’ Cutie Mark shouldn’t show up when he’s preforming well, that’s what caused him the distraction and made him screw up. Why would it show up before he realizes what his talent is? I know they haven’t been very clear about how Cutie Marks work, but as I understand it the whole reason for them appearing is the realization of what your talent is. Trouble Shoes was initially fulfilling his dream of being in the rodeo when his appeared, not when he was being clumsy.
@Background Pony #3A02
Too funny. Not a single one of those quotes indicates that Trouble Shoes’ cutie mark has anything to do with entertainment. Seriously, not even one. Let’s re-explore Trouble Shoes’ actual passion, shall we?
Also, quick correction while I’m here; I know that rodeo clowns aren’t only there to make people laugh, but that’s the type that Troubelshoes’s cutie mark makes his special talent.
I know I said I wouldn’t post again, but since this is someone else, I might as well.
His talent isn’t specifically being a klutz, his talent is making people laugh with his klutziness. That specific, positive end result is his special talent, not the klutziness itself.
People can be wrong in real life, or in fiction when there’s implications otherwise that the characters are liars or mistaken. That’s not the case here; it’s extremely obvious that the writers want you to believe what the characters are saying, considering that finding Troubleshoes’s cutie mark was the entire point of the episode. It’s like trying to cast doubt on Shining Armor and Princess Cadance’s claim that she’s pregnant. She could be lying or mistaken, but it’s extremely easy to tell that’s not what the writer is going for.
Also, “lesser job”? That’s nonsense. Performing in a rodeo normally and performing as a rodeo clown are completely different jobs, and require different skillsets. The former isn’t a “greater” version of the latter. Even in your example, being a nascar driver and being a pitcrew member take different skillsets, and in MLP, would have completely different cutie marks.
Not everyone’s special talent is equal in magnitude, or even necessarily better than someone else’s standard talent. Not everyone is equally talented, even in an idealistic world like MLP’s. Troubleshoes not being “good enough” to be a standard rodeo participant isn’t bad writing, since nothing ever foreshadowed him to be good enough, nor is there any guarantee that he’d be good enough. Hard work is not always enough to fulfill a job if you don’t have the talent for it, in both real life and MLP. It also doesn’t matter if you think it’s bad writing, or an asspull. Neither of those negate that it happened, and are a part of the show.
Yes he is. This is a kid’s show; the writers would not refer to a moment that only happened offscreen (without making it clear that they were doing so) when emphasizing a skill like this. The writer’s intent is obviously to get the watcher to think back to the other time they were shown helping someone find the true meaning of their cutie mark.
I still don’t see how clumsiness itself is a talent. Being a rodeo clown, sure, but I mean, being clumsy affects his daily life to the point he appears depressed about it. “Just my luck…” Being a klutz isn’t a talent, it would be a curse.
I also disagree with both of you about needing a direct quote because people can be wrong and that whole ending where he’s just a rodeo clown was an asspull for poor writing. It seemed to me more like he was settling for some other, lesser job that’s still in the rodeo. That would be like wanting to be a Nascar racer, but end up being a part of the pit crew and just accepting that.
>Apple Bloom: But when we take a little time off, we end up helpin’ other ponies figure out their true talent!
>Apple Bloom is referring to Troubleshoes here, due to the plural in ponies.
People also talk like that all the time, he isn’t directly referenced here.
This is going to be my last post, since if direct quotes don’t convince you, nothing will.
Near the end of the episode, Troubleshoes has a revelation and directly states it.
Troubleshoes: What she says is true. This here entertainin’ y’all with my klutzin’? That’s what I was supposed to be doin’.
Note that he is specifically referring to entertaining with his clumsiness, and only that. The CMC confirm it several times, both before and after Troubleshoes realizes it.
Apple Bloom: You were born to entertain! You’ve got a gift for makin’ folks laugh, don’t you?
Scootaloo: Troubleshoes has a gift for making ponies laugh! He’s maybe the best rodeo clown I’ve ever seen!
Several other ponies agree that Troubleshoes is amazing at making them laugh as a rodeo clown.
Applejack: That’s the best rodeo clown I ever seen!
Judge: That’s true! He is awful funny. (in response to Scootaloo saying he’s the best rodeo clown she’s ever seen)
Then, there’s two additional outside statements that confirm that Troubleshoes was looking at this cutie mark wrong, and is now looking at them right.
Sheriff Silverstar: That may be so, Trouble Shoes, but you still gotta face charges for the problems you’ve caused! (in response to Troubleshoes saying he saw his cutie mark wrong)
Applejack: Y’all helped Trouble Shoes realize what his cutie mark really means.
Then, in Crusaders of the Lost Mark, another writer once again confirms that the Cutie Mark Crusaders did successfully help Troubleshoes find his cutie mark by making a reference to that episode as an example of success.
Apple Bloom: But when we take a little time off, we end up helpin’ other ponies figure out their true talent!
Apple Bloom is referring to Troubleshoes here, due to the plural in ponies.
Did you see the pattern? Every single pony talks about Troubleshoes’s skill in being a rodeo clown, which is a specific type of rodeo performer that makes ponies laugh; in Troubleshoes’s case, he entertains them with his natural clumsiness that he attributed to his bad luck cutie mark all those years. Not a single one, including Troubleshoes, even mentions him performing normally a single time after he realizes his true cutie mark.
His cutie mark isn’t him “performing in a rodeo”, it’s “performing in a rodeo as a rodeo clown by using his natural clumsiness to make people laugh”.
Means you’re a thinker. That at least is a good thing.
@Background Pony #3A02