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Sorry. Life has been frustrating lately.
Kinda hoped the “cubicle monkey” bit would have clued you in that I was joking. You deal with RL as it happens, that takes priority.
RL happens. I’m doing what I can, lemme alone.
Shouldn’t you be writing the next chapter of Waking Nightmares, cubicle monkey?!
Also, before I forget, you also claimed to want to give a “realistic” spin to things because you don’t take the show seriously, but for some reason, while you decided to do this (completely out of proportion) for creatures that have not shown any of the things you insisted they have (Changelings), you actually argued that SPIKE’s situation made no sense because of his portrayal in the show…the show you claim shouldn’t be taken seriously in these situations because its comedic.
Spike is the one with canon armored body. The canon diamond-crushing fangs. The canon iron-melting fire. Etc.
None of these have anything to do with his age/clumsiness. If anything, they will just keep getting stronger, but have already shown to be at that level. All of these are things that, going by your own logic are only restricted by the show’s kid-friendly rating, and would actually be used to its fullest in the serious scenarios you talk about, making him a killing machine far beyond the Changelings.
So yes, that’s another problem with your logic. Its one-sided. You apply it when you like for who you like, and ignore it for what you don’t. Even when one side has even shown these feats in canon, and the other hansn’t.
Edited
Like I said, you’re free to believe your own headcanon and ignore the show. That’s fine.
The problem here is that your initial argument was how other people were wrong because your headcanon said diffrenetly. If you don’t like the show anymore and choose to ignore its rules, while unfortunate, its fine, however, you have to be mature enough to realize that such a thing automatically disqualifies you from discussing seriously about its world and especially of criticizing someone’s stories and arguments, when they have basis on the show.
Edited
Against my better judgment I’ve skimmed over what you wrote and let me tell you, I no longer watch the show as it has started annoying me with how OP ponies are (most noticeably Starlight) at the end of season 5, so I wouldn’t know a lot about war and stuff except from several screenshots I saw, and those weren’t great at all. The show manages to further ruin the core 6 characters and setting I used to like MLP for with every new episode. Like the last one I hear pretty much stomped the personality of RD, who happens to be my favorite pony. So yeah you guys are free to hop onto the Starlight bandwagon and accept everything the show throws at you (baby princesses, dragon princesses, ruined and disfigured mane 6, OP Starlight, etc), but excuse me if I no longer hold any respect for the canon and instead work to redefine and make it more reasonable and realistic, which IMO makes it more interesting. And yeah, go ahead and apply the whole “if you aren’t watching the show for kids but yet like the concept and some characters - you are not a brony and aren’t worth talking to” stigma and tell me to leave, I’ve heard this plenty of times by now. I am unsubscribing because further discussion is useless, good luck!
I am very sorry but as indicated in my previous message I am not willing to discuss this any further. It is kind of a jerk move seeing as you probably spent a lot of time writing that wall of text, but from the very first (and only) sentence I’ve read I can see that arguing over this is indeed pointless as neither of us is willing to honestly as much as consider the points the other side makes before jumping to their refusal. So yeah, this has been a waste of time and effort over a completely retarded topic and I am not willing to prolong this any longer, have a nice day.
OH, and you should never forget that the difference between my headcanons, your headcanons and the official show canon is just the fact that one of them has been turned into an animated show and more people were exposed to it. Its popularity or the fact it is animated doesn’t make it any more real or valid than a headcanon of a random Brony. The universe is completely imaginary, these characters never existed and won’t exist, there are no facts here as the truth in this case is purely subjective and depends on which canon you follow. You can’t deny gravity or physical rules IRL because they are what you call facts, denying them would be stupid because your view can be verified and subsequently refuted. But when it comes to a fully imaginary universe that doesn’t seem to follow any rules we know? Boy, I can make it into anything I want and my view will be objectively just as good as any others. Cheers.
Edited
@Background Pony #C7CE
@Background Pony #C7CE
Getting hurt and dying is very much a possibility in their world. We’ve seen them get hurt before, and actively/desperately avoid certain situations because they knew it would kill them (ie falling into lava or being swallowed by the Tatzlwurm). The show simply won’t focus on them too much because that’s not what its about, but it doesn’t mean its “impossible” in their world.
Anyways, whether you like the show’s overall rating or not isn’t the point. You were basing your critique and logic on rules and facts that don’t exist. Such as overhyping Changelings into extraordinary fighters simply because “they kinda look like insects”.
Note: Btw, this argument is extremely biased considering your main problem with this was how a DRAGON was more capable in a fight than small horses slightly bigger than himself. Dude, by your own logic, its only due to the show’s rating that Spike’s isn’t automatically killing everyone everytime he accidentally burps iron-melting fire, or tearing their throats open with his fangs that can crush even diamonds. But no, its only these completely 100% featless creatures that exist nowhere else outside of this show, who are being restricted from their “supposed” true potential that you’re sure they have because they have to, and no other reason.
@Background Pony #C7CE
About the “apparent” weakness of the Changelings, oh boy. See, that’s the same problem again. These creatures, the changelings, what is your evidence to say this isn’t how they are? Where is your Official Changeling Guidebook that says they’re the opposite of this, and only acted that way because of the show? That’s the problem. These are characters created by this show. This show defines how they are. You disagreeing is based on one thing only: Your ideal image of them.
Don’t misunderstand, you’re 100% free to have your own headcanons and write your own fanfiction, but you can’t claim someone else’s stories/points make no sense because “they follow the show instead of my headcanon”.
@Background Pony #C7CE
Whether the show can get anymore visual or not, doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that it implied how real and 100% possible a situation like that can be given the right circumstances. And neither does it have to do with the physical feats of a creature. The Changelings have never shown any of the many traits you keep piling up on them without any evidence. They are individually physically weak, their strength lies elsewhere. This is a fact, not a headcanon.
@Background Pony #C7CE
Anyways, the Changelings aren’t a real species. Neither are these ponies nor are most of the creatures in this world. There is nothing realistic about a creature whose subsists by feeding on love. So making up powers for them isn’t “realistic” in any way.
@Background Pony #C7CE
@Background Pony #C7CE
@Background Pony #C7CE
@Background Pony #C7CE
@Background Pony #C7CE
@Background Pony #C7CE
This cartoon for kids has never discarded the possibility of injury or death in serious situations, which you insist it has and rely on for your entire argument. It simply has the characters avoid these outcomes one way or another, but normally makes emphasis, with their reactions, that the danger IS very real. That’s very different from you arguing that it simply can’t happen. We’ve already seen it can. War can happen, ponies can get hurt, etc. The story not showing it constantly and being super graphic about it doesn’t mean its impossible. They fear what they fear for a reason.
There is no “serious discussion” when someone just makes up the rules. The Changelings having super hard bodies, super sharp fangs, powerful offensive magic, and the great senses and strength of an apex predator, etc. That’s not “being realistic”, both they’ve never shown anything resembling any of those and because they are not realistic creatures at all.
Edited
Well, this isn’t going nowhere as we are just discussing headcanons at this point. I will tell you this though, in my opinion your post went downhill as soon as you’ve limited yourself by the canon. The canon is a comedic show for little girls where no one can die or really get hurt, good and friendship always persist and not a single drop of blood exists. All villains and deadly creatures were portrayed in a comedic light-hearted nature, like the clumsiness of the hydra, kind heart of the manticore, and stupidity+apparent weakness of changelings. You can’t really use canon to speculate about war, it makes no sense as no real war can ever be present in the show. You can cry up and glorify MLP all you want but it will still remain just a nonsensical show for kids.
So yeah, this is why I choose to ignore most scenes from the show and filter out only the valuable ideas before giving them a realistic spin on my own. Mane6 won the first fight only due to the comedic plot twist where all changelings for some reason turned into their enemies and started fighting each other. Sure, this totally makes sense and should be irrefutably accepted as a demonstration of their combat provess. Note that ponies didn’t even attempt to fight their way through uncloaked changelings, thus allowing me to speculate that the entirety of the first fight was done for comedic purposes with little of it shown as it would have really been if the show was more serious and realistic (can’t show favorite ponies getting outright beaten to little girls). Everything else is just a matter of applying logic and RL parallels to fill in the gaps with the most likely details.
So yeah, you keep your headcanon and I will keep mine. The artist could have at least drawn Spike larger, as dragons would probably grow from violence just as they grow from greed (that is if you count that episode with Spike as real)… This would have made more sense IMO.
And just a bit of advice from me - you should really stop bringing the lore of a cartoon for kids into serious discussions on grim topics, it is just not applicable =/
@Background Pony #C7CE
@Background Pony #C7CE
@Background Pony #C7CE
Nothing you can say will ever convince anyone that a creature who can be knocked unconscious by Fluttershy’s “cowering motion”, is physically powerful by any means. The Mane6 won because direct confrontations are obviously not a Changeling’s strong point.
@Background Pony #C7CE
@Background Pony #C7CE
@Background Pony #C7CE
@Background Pony #C7CE
When talking about Changelings, you relied a lot on speculation and headcanons. If that’s fair, then here’s mine: Fighting/Violence is in a Dragon’s genes. Regardless of their previous lifestyle, give one a real taste of it and they’ll respond in kind.
@Background Pony #C7CE
Also, you keep using “highly skilled apex predators” to talk about strength, and it doesn’t apply at all here. No dude. They are creatures who disguise themselves, infiltrate other communities and feed on the LOVE they feel for each other. It makes no sense to try and automatically translate this to an actual battle-effective predator who has to take down its prey to feed on it.
Sorry for the long post btw.
Edited
Dude, just look at him on this page and tell me again with a straight face that he is a warrior.
I like how selective you are being with applying logic. Sure, let’s make Spike (the short rump the height of your knee who can’t even really run nor perform any other activities anywhere close to efficient) an OP warrior. But then I have a question, why do you favor ponies so much? I already told that ponies are ridiculously overpowered in this comic, and I still stand by it.
Just look at the changelings, do you really think they are weak species? They are raised in the hive and trained from early on how to be useful to the community, whether by espionage, foraging or combat. They posses natural chitin armor, fangs, sharp plates and homes. They are capable of flight and casting magic, including combat magic most ponies don’t have access to. And that is not to mention their other predatory abilities like feeling the emotions and possibly navigating in the dark using them or preventing surprise attacks as well as the sticky slime they produce that can be used to both heal themselves and capture enemies. Heck, just looking at ants you can see how efficient such a hive could be, as well as drawing parallels to their approximate physical prowess seeing as insects are times stronger than any mammal would be for the size they have.
So I ask you, how come you are ready to dismiss Spike’s negative traits shown on the show but still blindly accept that stupid fight with transformation failure shown on the show for kids just for comedic purpose of it? If you apply realistic approach then there is no way a bunch of pacifist herbivores under control of a new inexperienced leader can beat a hive of highly skilled apex predators who specialize in pony prey of all the things.
Heck, with all the flying artillery units each changeling represents, they could have just used their mini-alicorns to bombard the enemy from out of their reach while simultaneously shooting down any pegasus that attempts to get close to their formation. You do know that the battles are mostly won by gaining air superiority, right? There is nothing Spike or pretty much 2/3rds of pony army can do against ranged attacks, and that is speaking of only ranged attacks and excluding the possibility of decoy and diversion if their camouflage abilities were to actually be used seriously and not as part of a cheap joke in a show that can’t really have a serious fighting scene.
I think too many people take his “moral” from Dragon Quest too far sometimes.
There’s a difference from who he is and what he is. For the show’s context, the first one is more important, in an actual war however? the 2nd one becomes way more relevant.
@Background Pony #C7CE
Dragon: A creature with far greater power than any pony or changeling save for maybe the princesses.
Baby: For dragon standards. Even a teenager is more than a match for any fully-grown and trained pony who isn’t an alicorn, so him still being an infant of his species shouldn’t really be a deal breaker considering:
a) Who they’re fighting. The Mane6, including Fluttershy, completely beat up hundreds of them.
b) The natural weapons he already possesses even at his age. Even as a baby, his tougher body, razor-sharp claws and fangs, and powerful fire breath (Equestria Games) make it more than obvious that its only his gentle personality and pacifism that make him seem harmless to ponies. If he was actually violent, he’d be able to easily kill anyone save for strong unicorns and the princesses. So yes, him being a top figther in the war makes sense.
Edited
He’s the field commander, Twilight is the general. You don’t put your general on the front lines in most ordinary circumstances, they are too valuable to risk in the field.
Also, Spike is the NARRATOR because he’s talking about their lives over the course of the comic, and clearly he is the one who loved long enough to see them all end.
-Lumino
So far the only thing I see wrong is that Spike is in any way a capable warrior. He is a dragon baby incapable of doing pretty much anything beyond facilitate communication and provide moral support. The alicorns have lost to changelings in the past and the surprise factor can do wonders. Plus they are no demigods, they are gust long-lived ponies with questionable powers and a knack for altering history.
And changelings are born and raised as a military force, so they are more than capable warriors and could potentially easily break the peace-lowing ponies who have no skilled military whatsoever and rely solely on the lies and manipulations of their rulers (aka politics) and status of ‘royal’ alicorns as an integral part of all living beings. The only thing wrong here is how overpowered some of the ponies are, but that is also a sin that is present throughout the entire MLP show so you can’t really solely blame the author :(
And before you call me biased, I haven’t read a single story by this supposed author nor have I even known that this is based on a fanfic.
also, changelings would be one sidedly decimated in a war. they do not have the strength to fight the ponies at all. referencing previous, untrained combatants kicking their asses easy, that was going on. So there would be even less unnecessary death.
Is this all that goes on in your writing? Just killing off characters till it illicit some response? Cause that is the feeling i am getting with this.
So you are the guy behind this?
There are too many bones to pic. This is jsuta BAAAD story now. You keep on shoving unnecessary deaths into this that it has completely ruined what was shaping up to be an interesting story.
Might have tolerated Fluttershy’s unnecessary end, but then you went crack fic with killing off the princesses. Fucking Demigods. By freaking changelings, whom the mane six easily pulverized into the concrete and only lost when they got trapped in a doorway.
Heard you were a good writer. This entire set up is an extreme contradiction to that statement. This isn’t good writing at all. This is just doing whatever the hell you want and be damned any logic or effort.
Seriously, this is jsut bad. And it has already contradicted itself. Spike would be a wreck fileld with regret after all of this unnecessary grimdark.
Twilight is the leader, Spike is just one of her best warriors along with Rainbow Dash.
He didn’t want to look like he had no importance.
EDIT: It is totally Spike, isn’t it? Damn, sorry but this is just stupid, why the hell would he be the leader instead of Twilight? And the changelings are black, not green… and why always changelings and not rebel ponies tired from all the BS alicorns were giving them? But I guess it’s your comic and it isn’t too bad so whatever (no downvote from me).
Edited