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Uphold Moondancer-Chomskian-Bookchin thought now.
sadly the list goes on and on…
2 billion people beg to differ…
yes, it is complete shit,
the distribution just looks like a capitalist shithole, which fucking sucks,
hell, italy is more corrupt than cuba, yet italy is supposed to be a ‘‘democracy’’
also, theres a big economic divide as always,
also, every ideology can have corruption, though, we socialists dont call corrupt socialist countries “crony socialism”
because every ideology can have corruption no matter what, also, how is state intervetion bad anyway? last time i checked the great depression resulted out of massive deregulation, oh well,
also, i love how you unironically said that without showing no proof, or link as proving how cuba’s healthcare is ‘‘shit’’
oh wait, because it isnt and yes, it does have some problems as that some clinics and hospitals need to be repaired, doesnt mean its bad, though
also, i do love your last part, i hoped that you would search more about it, but obviously you didnt, and you just say that and think you’ve debunked it,
>and its complete shit
What an utterly profound and objective remark.
Yet also informative. Because if this is truly what you believe, it tells us a lot about you. I wonder if you are more on the ‘failed career and blames everything else around them’, or the ‘raving antifa-sympathizing student living off of their parents credit card’ end of the spectrum. Not contributing to, but complaining about it. Then again I don’t live in Italy - if that’s where you’re from, so who knows.
I also like how you put everything you personally don’t acknowledge in air quotes. Made me snicker.
You could have done something different than in just about every other comment you seem to make on the matter though. Just throw in one diversion after the other, double down on everything and never address any good points that were made. So I too will unsubscribe from this image after this comment because quite frankly it’s wasting both our time and nerve.
Gonna try and keep this short. “‘Crony capitalism’ is still capitalism” - yea right because things like bribes and general corruption particularly in public sectors would never exist in any other system. And it’s not like the more you try to actually fight corruption and ensure the independence of a democracy, the better the country will do, right? Hell, just look at how a lot of African countries are doing, where governments are bought out to a degree where every single citizen already knows the results of an election prior to it. But they are basically doing just as well as us, because it’s all just one lump of giant evil capitalism and not corrupt individuals or anything else whatsoever.
Monopolies are not inherently a bad thing either. In fact they are only viable if they manage to offer more and at a lower price than their competition. Which is pro-consumer by definition. If they try to take advantage of that by raising their prices or otherwise screwing their customers, they will simply bail, because someone else will do it better or for less money. And it will always be like that, because capitalism requires competition to function. Not like back in the GDR, where everything was planned out down to producing single units of a given product, and still the state had to import goods from everywhere else (without admitting it of course). In our system, you have, and always will have alternatives to everything anyone might have a monopoly over. And those will in most cases even be better THAN the monopole itself (e.g. Microsoft, amazon, Google, YouTube (a very good example recently: they fuck up, people bail and create alternatives which other people will happily support)).
But sorry I’m getting too rambly here.
Just because the current system has comparatively REALLY minor flaws in its current implementation in - you know - the by any metric best countries on the planet, no matter if one is looking at rights, civil liberties, education, life expectancy, infrastructure or (I know you’re gonna dislike this one) GDP. doesn’t mean it can’t be fixed without just tearing everything down. But the latter seems to be a recurring theme in your political worldview. And you unironically defended Cuba’s health system the other day. So what do I even expect out of this would-be conversation. I’m just glad that the system works for the vast majority of people, and they are quite content with it and not going to exchange it for anything else on their own any. time. soon. So you’ll never get to play your fantasy out. Not here at least.
And I am perfectly aware that all this won’t change your mind.. what would, really. But in closing, here’s a statement.
'Here I am, crawling through barbed wire, over landmines, through rivers and mountains, so that I could escape the evils of free-market capitalism'- said no one ever.Cya
‘‘you never had the pleasure to live under a socialist sytem’’
i do have the ‘‘pleasure’’ to live in a capitalist system, though, and its complete shit
‘‘crony capitalism’’ its still capitalism, ‘free-market’ capitalism would ruin the economy, just look at Chile under pinochet, a ‘free-market’ economy would soon or later result into a monopoly, which most of you ‘capitalist’ rightists are against
also, you didnt debunk the articles as well
it is fault of the ‘‘democratic’’ opposition that there is no food,
also
oh yes, the ‘‘i lived under socialism’’ thingy, please, tell me which country you lived under?
Edited
I don’t want ‘right-wing news’ as you call it, thank you.
Interestingly though nothing in this 7 year old article actually disproved what I said earlier, does it? Quite the opposite. I mean seriously, the article outright states that full-on state socialism would doom the country.
If the regime’s ‘battle cry’ was to bury capitalism that long ago already, you really have to wonder what it looks like now. It certainly hasn’t changed for the better, I can tell you that much.
I can’t believe you are defending this. You never had the pleasure of living under a socialist system, I assume. My parents had though. And my grandparents had. And they are all glad this is over.
Crony capitalism is a big problem in our times, that is up to us to fix. Otherwise it will always remain a faulty system that is in direct conflict with the core values of our democracies. But at least it will always also, inherently, be one of opportunity. As opposed to one where you are having what you ALREADY EARNED through your own sweat and blood taken away again.
you probably didnt even read the article did you?
but anyway since you want source from right-wing news
enjoy
also
>uses a socialist resource to try and prove how it’s totally not the fault of socialism
:thinking:
Anyways, you are totally right, there are a few remaining aspects of Venezuela’s economy that are still capitalist.
Because what we are seeing in Venezuela is a socialist GOVERNMENT, enforcing state socialism on a formerly capitalist state, and corroding it from within. It’s precisely what one would expect to see under these circumstances. I’m sure the Venezuelan people just love having their property and land taken away, and having neither food nor medicine for their families. Hell, not even for themselves. And who was it, Sanders even? Heralded it as a bastion and a great example of the socialist utopia.
I guess turning your entire population into bunny-farmers is one way to eliminate class-warfare.
and what does that have to do with the economy?
also, i know what is happening there, its in the news here everyday!
Have you heard nothing about what is happening there? The Young Turks said it themselves. People are dying because they protested against a vote to put a pro-Maduro National Assembly group in place, giving him the ability to rewrite Venezuela’s constitution, the economy is failing, the Bolivar (currency) is literally worth less than World of Warcraft gold, the biggest companies are leaving the country because the state is appropriating them and their facilities (for the people presumably), and the leader is calling all opposition “terrorism”. But don’t take my word for it, take theirs as I leave this comment section before a mod or admin turn up to tell us all to move this discussion to the forums.
Edited
oh and since you want one more recent, here, have this from 30 august 2016
and? sources to prove it changed?
That was 2010. This is 2017.
kek, have you even read the article?
its backed by the central bank mate
And there IT is. Every time socialism fails, “it’s not real socialism”.
THIS is what happens when you try to tax the shit out of the rich. They leave.
like if venezuela is socialist
>External factors somehow dictate the viability of a given system.
And there it is.
I know you’re probably joking and all but Venezuela would like a few words.
I believe…
Edited
Really, all he needs to do is drop the lifestylism and he’s more or less agreeable. Everything else he’s said is spot on.
Come on, Leo. We know you’re a good man at heart.
It’s like he’s doing all the reasoning for us. Sounds like he could be a real conrade if he wasn’t trying so hard to be a reprehensible asshole. Oh well.
And that is why we need to melt down the private ownership of companies and distribute ownership to the individuals that work there.
Yeah Georgie boy could never have predicted how the dystopian socialist future he presented with his novel would come to fruition. Not through totalitarian and pervasive government control but with private companies so desperate to keep one another lining their pockets that they will kowtow to the loudest minority and stampede all over western values to do it.