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Description
A comparison to Spike, Smolder, and /their/ “dad”! Try comparing them to Ember, Garble, or even the red dragon from Dragonshy!
- (Red) - Spike and dad have the same upper scales.
- (Green) - Spike and Smolder share the same knees and feet.
- (Light Blue) - They all have the color of their stomach that go all the way up to their jaws.
- (Purple) - Spike and Smolder have similar ears, only difference is that Smolder has horns going out (possibly taking after their mother if she has them).
- (Navy Blue) - Spike and Smolder share the same stomach pattern and are both a little chunky.
- (Burgundy) - Smolder and dad share the same eye pupil, and their eye colors are very close! But knowing that eye color sometimes fade when people get older, dad could’ve had that color once!
We can’t see the rest of Dad’s body yet, so the rest of the resemblance would have to wait until his debut.
Also to support the claim that Spike and Smolder COULD have a familial relationship: https://twitter.com/TheBiggestJim/status/978034625007136768
Source
not provided yet
Casually flying in a straight line isn’t an advanced technique, much less one that should warrant him suddenly going into a trench digging dive.
The basis here though is that what he’s doing in the montage is nowhere NEAR what he had to do to beat the Roc, such as flying upside down or flying so fast said bird could no longer track him and became dizzy.
Twilight said in the episode that these were advanced flying techniques she was trying to teach, not ordinary flight.
The image there was in direct response to FKB and is a retroactive statement to dragon quest, spike at your service, princess spike, equestria games, and others I likely forgot at the moment.
Gauntlet of fire was fantastic as was TTAAC, not to mention his interactions with Starlight.
The pessimistic viewpoint I have is due to the fact that the majority of episodes where spike is the central focus, they usually have a writer in charge who knows nothing about him or treats him like he’s an idiot/prop and just beats the tar out of him because they think it’s funny or they don’t care.
I can’t seem to make anyone understand that statement, they choose not to and instead just go “YOU HATE SPIKE!” and it’s actually my love of spike that makes me get so pessimistic when I see an episode focused on him coming around and dreading how the writers, especially the new writers, who don’t know anything about him, will usually mess him up.
It makes me incredibly sad that I can’t get this idea across to anyone.
Edited
Well I won’t lie your approach on Spike and his episodes do come off as kind of pessimistic to the point it rubs other fans the wrong way and give them the impression that you hate Spike.
I still wanna see Spike ascend and get a bigger role even though it may never happen I still like to hope for the better and honestly the writing we gets from fans who contribute their work through fanfics or fan comics come out better than the writers we have to this day.
Same reason this was downvoted so harshly: because it’s the truth and people can’t handle the truth.
Notice 99% of deflection is “why do you hate spike?”
your current filter.Edited
Not to mention Josh also worked on Molt Down where Spike gets his wings and gains control of them for about 30 seconds and was able to outmaneuver a Roc and stay airborne while upside down.
your current filter.Seriously …why is everyone giving Josh such a pat on the back when it’s so obvious? I’ll never get this whole website.
Then why wasn’t spike crashing and burning through the 13 episodes that lead up to dragon quest 2.0? He’s seen using his wings and flying casually multiple times in the episodes leading up to it.
Marks for effort:
your current filter.A matter of Principals:
your current filter.The Hearth’s warming club:
your current filter.And
The end in friend:
your current filter.This one is especially important as he FLAWLESSLY traveled the pathway and kept well ahead of rainbow dash and Rarity.
It’s just that FKB is more proof josh haber didn’t research anything about spike before writing two episodes about him and can’t even keep consistency on him between those two episodes.
In regards to spike’s flight inconsistency, there’s a lot to be said for running (or flying in this case) on instinct and adrenaline when in mortal danger, vs. trying to repeat the maneuvers on demand. Rainbow Dash had the same problem trying to reproduce the sonic rainboom initially.
The problem here is that the writing as a whole for this episode (and molt down, but that’s another topic) is handled exceedingly poorly, even for a show this simple.
Yes, some episodes “re-tread” a topic and it can be fine as long as it’s tackled properly. IE: fluttershy’s “doormat” tendencies have been addressed so many times, I’ve lost count, but the skillful writing is in showing what she does with the learned knowledge of a previous situation, choosing not to back down, or only standing up for herself so much.
Josh haber has shown he has no regard for any continuity relating to Spike and has done none of the research to know anything about the character. As I said, the problem is in comparing Spike’s mindset to any of the previous situations Spike has dealt with (dragon quest, gauntlet of fire) and how he reacts in a similar situation, but with greater knowledge.
The episode STARTS with Spike being unable to fly properly. Wait, what? When he got them, he fumbled a couple times, but then was quite literally flying circles around the Roc.
your current filter.As in, an avian predator that makes a meal out of dragons small enough for it to overpower. He’s able to outfly it exceptionally well. But then we cut to this episode and he suddenly can’t fly hardly at all. The most glaring aspect of this is that Josh wrote this episode as well.
Why is this even a thing in the episode? Well, it turns out that was the only way the writer could think of a reason for Smolder to have anything to do with Spike as the two don’t have any reason to interact in any natural manner, so Smolder is watching Spike fail at flying and comes out of the woodwork to teach him how. This could be seen as a method to undercut how Twilight can’t teach Spike how to be a dragon. Ok, I can understand that, but Spike already knows this and doesn’t care. Again, Dragon quest and Gauntlet of fire. I’ll even throw in Shadow Play part 2 where it’s stated Spike pen-pals Ember about things the dragons do, but usually has no desire to interact with them. Oh, this is also another episode Josh had a hand in writing.
Gosh darn, Josh can’t keep anything straight.
But lets continue. Spike shows appreciation to Smolder for her help and kinda works to “hang out” with her, albeit briefly before Sludge shows up. His statements come off as basic insults to Spike and Smolder of any dragon he’d even be a single year older than them and having a chip on his shoulder, and the idea of all the characters believing he’s “an adult” is weird (a statement… anywhere before this of “dragons come in all shapes and sizes” would have fixed that).
The rehab of Sludge I have no comment on as there isn’t anything out of place; ponies help those in need and this is no different, although it becomes apparent that, when he CAN do something, Sludge prefers to slack off and make someone else do it for him as a bit of foreshadowing.
Now the crux of the episode is Sludge telling Spike “I’mma you pappa.” Spike falls for it hook, line, and sinker, but I still don’t blame him nor think Spike is being an idiot.
Spike, being initially hopped up on being taught how to use his dragon body correctly by Smolder, sees this as a chance to connect with “real family” and learn more. The problem is that his sudden “obsession” of “being a dragon” blinds him (and most of the cast, really) to how blatantly Sludge lies to their faces. Not once does Spike question that Sludge might not be telling the truth, despite the fact that the initial encounter with Sludge was with him doing nothing but insulting everyone around him, akin to how Garble and the other “teen” dragons act.
This could get a pass if Spike hadn’t learned from Dragon quest and had still shown he wants to re-connect with dragons, but he doesn’t. The end of dragon quest shows him returning to those who actually love him and Gauntlet of fire shows him putting it into practice; valuing his pony “family” over his own safety and risking having to abandon them in order to keep the dragons in line and his pony connections safe.
But lets move on as Sludge’s demands get more absurd and blatant and even has a song about how he’s fleecing Spike out of his home. We come to a point where twilight suddenly has a brain and questions the legitimacy of Sludge’s claim and brings it up to Spike first, but she lacks tact. Spike throws it back at her in a fairly harsh manner, stating that “maybe you’re just jealous because I have a REAL parent now”. Maybe this scene would be sad or actually harsh to someone who started watching the show this season, but it makes no sense to anyone who has actually watched the show, especially from the beginning.
your current filter.Hey look at that, Spike outright said, in a sassy, angry voice “You’re not mommy.” And twilight didn’t bat an eye. Maybe because Twilight and Spike don’t share a parent/child relationship. The only piece of media that ever attempted to push this idea found that it doesn’t work and paints Celestia and Twilight’s Parents as incredibly callous and uncaring by dumping a newborn baby of a species not well known into her care alone with her intense studies, and as a result, Spike has suffered nothing but abuse since the day he was hatched.
your current filter.Thankfully, Celestial advice and Amending Fences contradict this by showing twilight was strictly in the books and studies and not abusing a baby dragon every chance she got.
Anyway, the episode wraps up with Smolder telling Spike “Yo, you’re an idiot.” and Spike sighs and says “Yea, guess I am.” and then they kick Sludge out and Spike “suddenly has learned” that the people who love him are more valuable than biological ties.
SUMMARY:
If you like the episode, I’m not going to stop you. You’ll enjoy it no matter what I say. At the same time, respect that not every liked it either and some feel it was handled exceedingly poorly.
Edited
I guess I can say that I kind of expected this answer, not because I saw it coming, but because the arguments don’t surprise me. The comparison of certain episodes with each other and the subsequent assertion that both plots are “the same”, I see this very often and it’s quite a common “tradition” in the fandom.
In all of these cases however, there are generally differences that get overlooked by seemingly everyone.
I could go into great detail about this by comparing “The Mysterious Mare-Do-Well” and “28 Pranks Later”; two episodes that are commonly claimed as being “the same”.
But since we talk about “Father Knows Beast” and “Dragon Quest” right now, I’ll use these episodes to make that point:
The first thing I want to say about the new episode, is, that the thought it could be a rehash of “Dragon Quest” did not even occur to me before you said this here. Which you will probably use to say that I didn’t understand the episode’s plot then, but it actually gives me opportunity to explain why it isn’t a rehash:
In “Dragon Quest”, we saw Spike having the desire, and then subsequently following this desire, to join the Dragon Migration so he can be with his kind, his race, to find out how much dragon he really is and if he can fit in with his people.
Which then resulted in it that he decided to not wanting to be a dragon mentality-wise, as he saw that most dragons are brutal, aggressive brutes who like it to create harm and who would, in some cases, go so far as wiping out a life without batting an eye and even getting enjoyment from that.
He just didn’t want to be that way, so he decided that he rather wants to be a pony.
In “Father Knows Beast”, we started with seeing how Spike realized that, while being a pony might be better than an aggressive and brutal dragon, there are aspects of being a dragon that a pony can’t help him with, particularly, that a pony that is able to fly can’t properly teach him flying because of the physical differences between pony wings and dragon wings, as Smolder pointed that out to him.
This was not just an introduction for the episode, it was also a very important moment for it, as it prepared for everything that should happen later.
Spike decided to be a pony years ago, but when he saw that there was something only Smolder, another dragon, could help him with, he began to develop doubts if denying his dragon heritage because of this bad experience from years ago is really, completely right. He saw that there are some things where he has to rely on the help of a dragon to succeed.
It’s also important to note here that this didn’t come out of nowhere. This incidence was already the second time that Smolder had to help him with something that a pony does not understand, so there was even a very clear build-up to Spike developing these doubts.
Additionally, he also began to realize that Twilight, in her role as adoptive mother, can’t show and teach him everything, despite doing her best.
And even though this was all still before he met Sludge, there was already some impact on him here:
Years ago, he learned that being a dragon is not all that it’s cracked up to be and decided against being one, now something happened that challenged all that he learned there and made him doubt his own decision.
Also, the fact that Smolder isn’t a “brutal, aggressive brute” hammered it in for him that not ALL dragons are like this, deepening the doubts of his decision of not wanting to be a dragon.
On top of that, he always thought that Twilight is good enough as a mother for him, but had to suddenly realize that what she can do for him has limitations because she isn’t a dragon and found himself confronted with it that he suddenly wasn’t completely satisfied with Twilight as his mother anymore.
What we’ve seen there at the beginning of the episode already was Spike getting thrown back into his old existential crisis of “Am I pony or dragon?” when something happened that made him wonder if the decision of rather being a pony than a dragon was really the right one. It confused him, as this suddenly forced him to overthink everything he thought he figured out years ago.
And he developed the thought that having his true, blood-related mom or dad around would be great, as they could teach him what Twilight can’t then. He suddenly wanted more than what Twilight could do for him.
This is important, as it both made Spike susceptible for Sludge’s influence that came later on and put him into the mindset where he would act in a way that hurts his adoptive mother.
Fast forward to Sludge, when Sludge started with his lies, Spike thought that he finally found his dad, a member of his actual, blood-related family. He was happy to have finally met such a member, as he had what he desired, a parent who is a dragon and can teach him the things that are important for dragons that a pony can’t. Additionally, someone who knows about his past and can clear up all the mysteries about his heritage.
So, when Sludge started to say he’s going to teach him how to be a proper dragon, Spike thought that Sludge would teach him more things about being dragon that Twilight isn’t able to teach him about.
And because of the doubts he had already developed prior to meeting Sludge, both about being a dragon and if Twilight is really such an awesome mother, he could not see that Sludge didn’t have his best interests in mind.
His realization that he sometimes needs a dragon around and the immense joy over it that he now even has his dad for that made him completely blind for the fact that Sludge was just abusing him.
And the desire of having a dragon parent to teach him what Twilight can’t has enabled him to make the remark that broke Twilight’s heart when she questioned what Sludge was teaching him.
When Sludge showed his true colors then, Spike was disappointed that this awesome dragon parent he had finally found isn’t his parent after all, nor awesome, but it also reminded him again what is important about family.
He was sad at first, as his reaction right after the reveal matter-of-factly showed, but this feeling was soon replaced by the epiphany that he already has an awesome, although not perfect, parent with Twilight, which made him happy and content as a result.
Summing this up, there are two different things that Spike learned during the events seen in these two episodes.
During the Dragon Migration, he “rejected his dragon lineage” as he learned that dragons are awful people and he doesn’t want to be like that.
After the betrayal by Sludge, however, he rejected a bad parental figure as he learned that a parent who can teach you everything you need to know isn’t automatically a good parent and that a good parent is more defined by it how much they care for you than by how much they are able to teach you.
“Father Knows Beast” isn’t a rehash of “Dragon Quest”, because Spike did not reject his race, he rejected a father that was bad for him, and because he did not learn that he doesn’t have to be like his people if he can’t live like that, but what a good parent is.
The difference really isn’t that subtle, if you think about it. There was a lot of impact on Spike here and actual growth of him.
Edited
It has no impact. Spike did a “soul searching” in dragon quest to connect with “his kind”. In the end, he rejected his dragon lineage and chose to live with those he loves and who love him. This decision, this LOVE he has for them is why he CHOSE to compete in the gauntlet of fire, to protect them. It’s also why he gave up the title of dragon lord, because he wanted to remain with the ponies. It’s been spelled out and done before.
Not really. Spike shows no remorse and doesn’t even care by the end of the episode and basically re-quotes the end of Dragon quest with “it’s not who you’re related to, it’s who loves you!” Seriously, look at him during the finale of the episode; he really doesn’t care.
No. An episode just needs to not re-hash a topic by making a character suddenly become a gullible imbecile. Spike at your service, mysterious mare do well, equestria games, and just for sidekicks are bad episodes, but not because “they didn’t change the status quo”. MOST of the episodes that are agreed upon as being amazing didn’t change anything in the status quo.
Why would it need to change the status quo for the episode to be objectively great and to have impact?
With the emotional turmoil Spike went through here, first thinking he finally found his biological family and then having to realize he fell prey to a fraud who just wanted to seize advantage of him and emotionally abused him, there was A LOT of impact here.
You seem to define the objective quality of an episode solely by the question whether it changes the status quo or not, but that isn’t needed for an episode to be great.
It’s about the journey, not the end of the journey.
Edited
As I said, it had zero impact beyond making spike an idiot for half an hour.
Truth.
It’ll have no impact since it’ll be status quo right after it, so no he won’t be family, no it won’t change anything, and no it’ll never be brought up for anything other than “lol you’re wrong again spike like when that guy said he was your father, you total stupid loser.”
How about no one and we just pretend the episode never happens since it’ll go status quo and nothing will be different by the end of it.
and spikes father confirms that and i would love to see them 2 react to the information
Edited
Nevermind… just read the synopsis. All of the quotes lend me hope that this “thing” isn’t actually Spike’s father.