Pretty sure the entire chrystal pony species wasn’t doomed to eternal imprisonment along with any potential future generation.

It is also an assumption that literally all of them took part in evil deeds.

In this case, its not just one person.. If they wanted to kill ponies they would have done so.

Doing a bad thing in the past shouldn’t doom an entire species forever.

Only Hope was outside the Empire. We don’t know of anyone else.

Again, I question the morality of imprisoning literally all of them. At least the changelings simply got blown away back to their homeland.

So they didn’t rule for very long? How do you know that?

The ponies get to live happy lives under benevolent rulers. They get to be free, their children get to be free and they get to interact with the world as they see fit. The umbrum are cursed to be stuck in a hole including their future generations who may not have deserved it. Sure, in the short term the ponies suffered more but in the long term the umbrum did. At least the former has a future.

Or the ponies.

How do you know that it was specifically because of the dimention? How do you know that their all immortal? We only have one example.

And if they have no one to teach them like how Thorax did with the changelings? Do they not deserve at least that help?

Well now the Umbra get to learn how their victims felt.

That’s an assumption, not a fact.

Evil isn’t always smart.

Would they ever have been imprisoned if they’d just left the ponies alone?

Once again, that was a disguise, he was just as eager to kill Hope and the Princess.

No, but the ones who weren’t in the Empire before it was sealed away most likely passed away over the next 1000 years. Plus, that still doesn’t mean that they had no Associates out of the Empire whatsoever.

For a good reason, they terrorized the locals and nearly rendered the land uninhabitable for them. So this was the only way to get rid of them.

They were simply stopped before they could get too far.

That doesn’t nullify the pain of losing their loved ones because of an evil king, as well as passing on never seeing them again with no knowledge on their safety or well-being, stop trivializing their suffering while pretending the enemies suffer more.

Tell that to the Umbra.

Hope was immortal because she stayed in the dimension with them.

That’s on them to figure out.And considering the fact that that red crystal is still there, they can just send A youngling through that

As opposed to having an entire species locked up?

Something that not every single one of them may deserve.

And wouldn’t taking out some of the potential rebels while they were searching be logical in a purely evil sense?

Yes, but would Sombra have ever changed had he also been trapped in their prison?

Ira?

But when looking at the populations, were there any chrystal ponies in Equestria before the Empire returned and were there any non-chrystal ponies in the Empire?

Also the heart caused them appearent pain and was the only thing that could shove them back to prison.

But until that, how? If they were truly genocidal then the crystal pony population would have been far lower by the end of Siege.

If they had them, at least they got to live free lives under Celestia and Luna.

Well, I don’t think that every member of their race deserved it not would I if one of my family members did something bad.

So was Hope,

How are they supposed to earn it then? Their stuck in their prison where they can’t learn in the same way Thorax could.

They had mental scars of being ruled over by Sombra, which is by default even worse.

Long enough to be sealed away indefinitely for their crimes.

Because they were focused on destroying the heart.

And they chose not to, that’s on them.

If you’re going to play that card, where was the mention of them having children or they are being good versions of them aside from Sombra?

Apparently it warranted the princess is taking a direct response, that alone should be enough proof that more individuals outside the empire were associated with them.

Neither where the ponies when Sombra took over, that didn’t stop them from trying to destroy the crystal heart and wipe them all out in a blizzard.

It was made pretty clear that they were going to wipe out the Crystal Empire and take over a questionnaire for themselves. And as for how the crystal ponies survive, apparently they found the crystal heart that Sealed them away.

You technically are acting like they didn’t lose anything if you think none of them had any family or friends outside of the Empire that they’ll never see again.

You tell me, after all they were perfectly willing to let every stallion Mare and Foal freeze to death after they destroyed the heart, clearly the Umbra have that mentality.

Because he was a separate case, made specifically to infiltrate the empire.

And if they were capable of reproducing wouldn’t the area they stayed in for over a thousand years be overpopulated. It’s pretty obvious that they are immortal.

Once again, that’s their problem, after everything because the ponies have been through they’re not obligated to Simply give them that chance, the Umbra have to work and earn.

Yea, but wherever that was, it kept them asleep or something because they seemed to have no memory or knowladge of ever being sealed away.

I never said that they didn’t hurt anyone, only that we don’t know exactly how long they terrorized the ponies or if they killed specifically.

If they were that murderous why didn’t any pony die or get seriously injured during their brief release by Sombra?

And were there any mention of reletives afterwards?

True, but still, with the distance, the weather between the two lands would have made it sure that only a miniscule amount of those ponies with outside families existed. Remember, it took Hope after Sombra took power to get to the princesses, during which we have no records of the Empire ever being visited or anyone from the Empire visiting. You would thing that the lack of famillial response would give way to sufficiant suspicion to at least send a scouting party.

They were stuck underneath a hole. I don’t think that left a large amount of room for an entire species. They also didn’t seem to be living all that comfortable lives either.

When did the comic mention that they wanted to wipe out other races? If that were the case how did the chrystal ponies survive?

I also don’t think the ponies lost everything. They got to keep their old jobs and homes.

Does that make it right to punish those umbra who may not have taken part in anything? If one of my family members does something bad, would it be right to punish me alongide them for it?

Ira in her true form was considerably smaller then the rest. And why shouldn’t Sombra count? He is an umbrum as well, after all.

There sentient species. Where would they come from and how would they reproduce without offspring of some sorts? And Sombra was shown to have a childhood.

https://derpibooru.org/images/1165211?q=ira
https://derpibooru.org/images/2333740?q=sombra%2C+colt

But how will they ever learn without someone teaching them? I go back to the changelings here. Thorax showed them a way and conviced them to coexist. He had help from ponies to accomplish that. Yes, the umbrum had Sombra but Sombra never tried to teach them any better because he stuck to their plan until the last second.

The crystal ponies had to be sealed away somewhere after Sombra placed the curse on the Empire.

Also, please don’t try to play the “we don’t know if they really hurt anyone”

Sombra’s rule was technically their idea and was brought about by them creating him as an agent to infiltrate the Empire in the first place, so it’s directly tied to them. The ponies still suffered regardless. The Umbra aren’t victims.

Actually they could because the Crystal Heart kept the area warm and allow them to visit on multiple occasions. The blizzard only got more intense when the heart was removed. Regardless, the harshness of the weather doesn’t automatically mean that none of the crystal ponies couldn’t have associates or family members outside of the empire. Hope herself was able to traverse the land and get to the Royal Sisters easily enough after all.

Logically speaking, we don’t see any of them actually suffering, so you can’t claim that they were in a worse State can you?

And said race wanted to wipe out anyone that wasn’t them, so it’s kind of hard to feel sympathy when they warrant none.

You don’t seem to care that much about the crystal ponies who lost pretty much everything and suffered more than the Demonic hellspawn living right underneath them.

You tell me, none of the crystal ponies took part in Sombra’s suffering, and yet all of them lost their empire for an extended. Of time because of him.

No you didn’t, all of those Umbra were in Disguise so that Hope would trust them. Unless you have an actual example that isn’t Sombra himself, that doesn’t fly.

Once again, Sombra and hope we’re two examples, and they botched that opportunity for revenge. That’s their fault, not the ponies.

You’re making assumptions that they have innocent children down there, not actually presenting facts that there are innocent children. And that’s just the problem. You’re assuming And not confirming. So logically speaking none of them actually had children in that Dimension and none of them are innocent since all of them want to kill the civilians of this Crystal Empire.

And I’m going to have to put my foot down because it’s getting repetitive. No more what-ifs or possiblies regarding them having children. Either show us an actual kid that wasn’t disguised as just a trick them, or stop bringing it up.

Well that’s their problem. Once again the ponies aren’t obligated to give them that chance, they have to earn it. And considering the fact that that red crystal is still there, they can just send A youngling through that. Of course that’s still on them to work for that trust since they’ve done nothing but subject of crystal ponies to pain and suffering through their actions.

Thousends of years? We actually don’t know how long they were ruled by the umbrum. Heck, we don’t even know if the umbrum were actively killing ponies.

If were talking about Sombra then he didn’t seem to rule very long.

I’m not downlpaying it, but their banishment is clearily not the same as the umbrum’s. And it wasn’t that which caused them gried, but Sombra’s rule.

Do you really believe that Sombra would have let anyone leave the Empire? Also, even if they did they didn’t seem to remember them at least at first.

Afterwards we hardly saw any grief on their part. Logically speaking, the Empire was surrounded by uninhabitable arctic wastes and unless railroads were invented a thousend years before the show, its highly unlikely that much visits could be made between there and Equestria by the common pony.

And yes, that would matter but that doesn’t change the fact that there could be innocents suffering a lot more right underneeth them.

The villains aren’t innocent, but again, this isn’t one person or a small group were talking aboutt but an entire race.

I just have a problem with those getting punished that may not deserve to be or may not have even been responsible for the bad things in the first place.

And what of those that may not have taken part in causing the suffering?

And we only saw a select few attack her and they all stopped when Sombra vouched for her. I believe that I have showed an example of a young umbra in a previous post.

They can’t do that while inprisoned. They can’t know anything else because they have no example or experience of it.

But if they don’t know or have been misstought then those future generations would be more misguided then actually evil. Sure, they’ed be wrong, but from there perspective, they would be rotting in prison along with their families for seemingly no reason or fault of their own.

And how are they supposed to negotiate when they can’t even talk to the ponies? We don’t know if they can make another Sombra and even if they could, we saw how he turned out.

They also had time to think about all the thousands of years that they suffered under their rule. And how the only one that wanted to change did so and save them while the rest of them were perfectly content with letting them die.

Don’t downplay their suffering. Or did you forget that they were still so grief-stricken by by the event. The ponies had to put on a festival to help them remember what they loved about their empire?

And while we’re going on about people “not thinking of the consequences of things”, how about we consider how the Crystal Ponies may have had family or friends outside the Empire before Sombra time traveled them to the Future?

It feels like you’re dismissing one Empire suffering just so you can pretend that the villains responsible are more innocent.

The same question could be asked regarding the ponies that suffered because of them.

That’s a different scenario, once again we don’t know for sure if there were actually any innocent or young umbra there especially since they were perfectly willing to kill hope the moment she was no longer of used to them. Something they all were perfectly comfortable doing.

That depends on whether they want to change Or not. And even then that’s a very loose assumption.

the crystal ponies themselves aren’t obligated to Simply hand them that chance, they have to earn it And work for it.

Feeling rightfully justifies and actually being rightfully Justified are two different things. If they don’t bother looking into their own history or question basic logic, they’re basically gonna look very stupid when they get blasted back into the hole they crawled out of because they want to revenge for their ancestors committing a crime and being stopped.

The younger ones might get the benefit of the doubt, but they’re in no Position to demand that all of them be granted Mercy. Besides, ticking time bombs like them don’t exactly have much of a right to demand anything when there’s a ton of different ways for them to get locked away or blasted into Oblivion. They either play nice and acknowledge their faults and change, or they stay locked away. Simple as that.