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Twilight=Pit
and
Celestia=Palutena?
I never said that exactly. Rarity’s limbs were under mental command, but they weren’t actually part of her.
They were attached to her body and responded to her thoughts. There is the question of whether she was receiving sensory information, but absolutely zero information about that either way. Being able to tell what is going on with her wings would imply, but no way to tell for sure.
Simplest explanation, to me at least, is that they were controlled through Rarity’s nervous system rather than something more complicated. Yes, this means growing new bits of brain. Transformation spells made mice into horses and a bird and a frog into functional animal/orange hybrids. Magic can do brain surgery, at least when it’s the side effect of something else.
Also, using butterflies as reasoning doesn’t work since they undergo a slower change, already adjusting to using the limbs before they even crawl out.
So Twilight adjusted faster, courtesy of the glowing ball of magic that came out of her chest. The metaphor wasn’t perfect, but the point was that the wings were part of a metamorphosis rather than being an external transplant.
And my point was about her brain also being a Unicorn’s brain, and therefore having a difference in brain chemistry and physiology.
Those differences can’t be a problem, since Twilight spread her wings no problem once she reappeared. Any differences in brain chemistry are likely, almost certainly, tied to the different nervous systems from having different limbs. Since she now has wings, she’d have those bits of brain chemistry.
Have we seen Cadence, who was originally a Pegasus, use magic not tied to her talent without a device to alter the spell?
We’ve seen Cadance levitate stuff. I’m not sure to take her back story as a pegasus as canon, though, since it contradicts something from Mystery Cure.
That doesn’t prove anything in either direction, since she’s had that alicorn strapped to her head since before Twilight got her cutie mark, so she’s had plenty of time to learn how to use her non-native abilities.
If we found out how long it took her to cast spell after her transformation that’d be something, but the book didn’t really tell much about her.
I never said that exactly. Rarity’s limbs were under mental command, but they weren’t actually part of her.
Also, using butterflies as reasoning doesn’t work since they undergo a slower change, already adjusting to using the limbs before they even crawl out. And I never said that she just had the wings ‘slapped on’, I meant as in she was never meant to have them in the first place, being born as a Unicorn.
And my point was about her brain also being a Unicorn’s brain, and therefore having a difference in brain chemistry and physiology.
And simply being representative of all three races doesn’t mean she can instinctively use the abilities of all races. Have we seen Cadence, who was originally a Pegasus, use magic not tied to her talent without a device to alter the spell?
What I meant was she didn’t control them so much as tell them what to do. They weren’t part of her, they were autonomous, they moved with a minimum of input on Rarity’s part.
What, did she use voice commands instead? It isn’t like Rarity has to micromanage her other limbs either. She was shown encased in a glowing cocoon when she got them, so they sure as heck looked like they were hooked up to her nervous system.
Therefore, Twilight does in fact need to learn to use them in much the same way a human would need to learn to use a cybernetic prosthetic after it’s been attached.
Your analogy breaks down pretty completely right here. This was a magical transformation, and a benevolent one at that. Does a butterfly need to take flying lessons after emerging from the cocoon? Twilight’s wings quite literally came from inside her. They aren’t some external limb.
I could see the argument if Discord just slapped Rainbow Dash’s wings on her back, but that isn’t what happened here. In the case of random race switches, I’d be on the side of training needed, to be honest.
As for never having had the instincts of a pegasus, I’m not sure about that, and I seriously doubt that it applies after her transformation. All three pony types can give birth to ponies of all three, and all three share some abilities, so sharing some instincts is quite possible. After her transformation, well, it was a lot more complicated than just stapling a pair of wings on her back. Supposedly, she’s all three races now, which would include their instincts.
What I meant was she didn’t control them so much as tell them what to do. They weren’t part of her, they were autonomous, they moved with a minimum of input on Rarity’s part.
As for Twilight, she never had those wings to begin with. She may have them now, but she wasn’t born with them and thus doesn’t have the instinctive knowledge to use them. Therefore, Twilight does in fact need to learn to use them in much the same way a human would need to learn to use a cybernetic prosthetic after it’s been attached. Using the fact that they were created by magic is an incorrect parallel. They are not like the Glimmer Wings in that they are solid biological wings grown out of her own body. Expanding on my point earlier, and going against your assumption that she could learn the same way a Pegasus or bird would, she does not have any flight instincts due to the fact that she only has a Unicorn’s mind, meaning that her mental image is still that of a Unicorn. And once again, it’s using a whole new set of body parts that she never had before, therefore she at most only has a rudimentary understanding of how they work.
Quick, if somebody grafted a brand new arm to your nervous system, do you think you would know how to use it immediately afterward?
That’s actually my point. Twilight’s wings weren’t grafted onto her by surgery. She got them from a magical ball of light that came out of her chest. Her own chest, so whatever she was using was already inside her. They aren’t limb transplants or cybernetic prosthetics. They appeared by magic while she was in the astral plane. They conditions under which she gained them were unnatural, literally supernatural, so it is unlikely that she has to learn how to use them like she would if she had gained them under natural, or at least mundane, circumstances.
And that assumes that one needs actual training to get in the air. We’ve seen pegasi start flying as early as a month after being born. Whatever the deal with Scootaloo is, getting your rump into the air isn’t a problem for most pegasi. She’s got working adult wings, so fluttering around shouldn’t be a problem for her.
Hell, some birds learn to fly by being pushed out of the nest, so Rainbow could have just pushed her off of a balcony at some point.
Rarity’s wings were never attached to her nervous system
Hmmn? Rarity was actually controlling those puppies, so it sure looked like they were connected to her nervous system. Rarity also wasn’t pulling off any slick moves with her wings, so it isn’t like she did anything that needed advanced training.
Quick, if somebody grafted a brand new arm to your nervous system, do you think you would know how to use it immediately afterward?
Twilight’s wings may have been generated by magic, but unlike the Glimmer Wings they are not themselves magical. It’s the equivalent of a cybernetic limb, she actually has to learn to use those abilities that it can use. Rarity’s wings were never attached to her nervous system and were intended to allow flight without any training whatsoever. They were made so that Unicorns could experience the life of a Pegasus temporarily, thus it would be logical for them to have a mental user’s guide that disappears when the wings do. On top of that, a Butterfly wing, what the Glimmer Wings are designed on, works in a completely different way to a bird’s or Pegasus’ wing. Also, using Scootaloo as an example doesn’t work, as it’s shown that she’s using her wings wrong.
Except we saw her fly with them… And basic flight seems to be piss easy for everyone except Scootaloo, so it’s uncertain how much training is actually needed if all you want to do is get off the ground.
Given that we saw Twilight get her wings through mystical means, expecting her to have to learn like someone that got them from birth or mundane fashions seems unreasonable.
The magic that gave Twilight her wings is likely different from the one that gave Rarity hers, so Twilight’s wings don’t necessarily come with knowledge on how to use them properly.
Twilight’s wings are real wings made of flesh and bone, and do not have the innate quality of being made entirely of magic.
…We saw them get made with freaking magic. They may be permanent, but Twilight’s wings used even more magic than Rarity’s. Twilight did not get her wings through natural methods. The glimmer wings Rarity used were at most slightly larger than pegasi wings, and probably used the same mechanisms to allow flight. The glimmerwing spell implanting knowledge of flight just makes it more probable that the transformation that Twilight went through did the same.
Rarity was lousy at weather control… But she had less than a day of practice and was using whatever magic she could improvise rather than pegasus flight, or even spells that had already been developed. Trixie was actually competent with her summoned cloud, unlike Rarity, and Winter Wrap Up implied that unicorn weather controllers are a thing, if only to summon spring.
For the record, pegasus weather control seems to be an extension of physical ability. Clouds move where you push them, and stuff comes out when you kick them. For the unathletic Twilight, that would be harder than using magic to levitate the clouds into position, or using whatever spell it was that Trixie used to summon clouds. While Twilight has pegasus flight and powers now, she still hasn’t tried to push clouds even once, but she already knows loads of magic.
Actually, the Glimmer Wings were much larger than her body. On top of that, they were a magical construct, likely they have a way of implanting the knowledge of how to fly directly into one’s brain, like how Gunman pilots can use any Gunman to almost mediocre efficiency without any prior training. Twilight’s wings are real wings made of flesh and bone, and do not have the innate quality of being made entirely of magic.
And yes, they went out of their way to show that, while capable, Unicorns suck arse at weather manipulation, and Twilight will always think like a Unicorn, not like an Alicorn.
The glimmer wings didn’t have much more surface area than pegasus wings, and it’s still besides the point. Rarity knew how to use wings that she got from magic to fly. Twilight knowing how to use wings that she got through even more magic makes sense.
Now, if she already knows the ins and outs of the physical side of weather control, yeah, that’s bull.
But the thing is, butterfly wings work differently. They work by having massive surface area in order to move a disproportionately heavy object.
Pegasus wings actually need practice to use.
She got her wings courtesy of one huge bit of magic. Given that the much smaller magic used to give Rarity wings also taught her how to fly, Twilight should also know how.
There is also the question of just how hard getting off of the ground is. Pegasus flight ignores aerodynamics pretty badly, so a well formed adult pair of wings might do the trick with just some flapping. Ponies even younger than Scootaloo have been shown getting off of the ground, so it doesn’t seem terribly complicated.
After all, Twilight is pulling double reverse inside out somersaults yet. The basic stuff could just be easy for an adult.
I just feel that the train already left the station.
I know.
It’s a reference to this line from Kid Icarus: Uprising.
Well, this is one of the times where she can’t fix her problems with a book. She has to completely learn a whole new way of moving using a set of muscles and bones she didn’t have before. The same principals can’t be applied to a Pegasus-to-Alicorn ascension seeing as the only thing added is something that can be completely ignored most of the time.
really going all out with that character development aren’t they?