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Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it every couple of seasons.
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That’s understandable. They have aspects and/or tropes of both.
For Applejack, its Stalwart Loyalty.
For Rainbow Dash, its Undying Loyalty.
For Applejack, its Living Honestly.
For Rainbow Dash, its Perceiving Honesty.
Sorry, I just don’t pay much attention to AJ. Besides, it often seems like AJ and RD’s elements should be switched.
Nonsense. There have been plenty of times when AJ was dishonest, most notably in The Last Roundup.
Well I know people lie by nature, but who knows about ponies. Though given her comment in today’s episode…maybe it’s virtually impossible for her to lie.
You never know with Applejack. A wise man once said…
‘I’m dishonest, and you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest. Honestly, it’s the honest ones you want to watch out for, ‘cause you can never predict if they’re going to do something incredibly stupid.’
Oh we could go all day on things like that, but that’d be boring.
Twilight has wings only because…
I suppose, but I guess you can make a scale of how contrived it is based on whether the plot flows logically vs there being no good explanation relying on ridiculous and unlikely explanations to validate the plot.
It’s the difference between the plot being flawed and utterly horrible.
By that argument literally every story ever made is “contrived.”
Nah, the last one for me was not arguing like before, just clarification. Deliberate decision vs Deliberate intent. Miscommunication at best.
That’s it.
This episode had an incredibly contrived plot. Fluttershy’s plan worked because, and only because, the writers say it did. Twilight’s plan backfired because, and only because, the writers say it did, or rather they say it would.
Maybe.
Or not.
She wasn’t even accidentally in the wrong. She didn’t do any harm to anyone, and her plan actually worked.
I get free refills.
That’s got to be a very deep bag.
I’m just sitting her with a bag of popcorn.
munch
@CronoM
Jesus Christ, are you people still arguing?
Yes, but because you did something wrong doesn’t mean you were trying to do wrong. Otherwise you could say Fluttershy made a deliberate and poor choice to help Twi perform the spell. @The Chaos Hunger He/she is saying that they’re all at fault except Fluttershy, because Fluttershy didn’t deliberately do something wrong. That’s plain BS because none of them deliberately do anything wrong. Regardless of who I think is in the wrong, his/her statement about why Fluttershy isn’t is just plain bad.
But you already agreed Twi’s spell-choice was a deliberate and poor decision.
???
Well none of them were deliberately in the wrong.
No, I’m saying that Fluttershy wasn’t deliberately in the wrong.
Meh, whatever. shakes hand
One, I think your thinking way too deep on the ‘technical’ aspects of real world animal traits, instead of in-show knowledge and situations. I mean, its kind of self fulfilling prophesy with a user name like ‘Techy Pony’, but you see what I mean.
Two, your philosophy on incharacter and uncharacteristic things, which is subjective by nature, seems so self certain…it seems like you can choose what is your headcanon for their incanon personality with little open mindedness…limiting what you see as characteristic in one character and OOC in another.
Three, I thank you for agreeing me on the bad suggestion point. However, I think you are going to great lengths to desperately trying to defend Twilight from a large amount of blame. To such an unrealistic degree that I just cannot relate to. Not to mention your comments got more and more angry and defensive, and lacked the calmness and analysis you had in the early part of the message. You started treating me like the enemy again.
I don’t want to fight about this anymore, so I’ll just leave it at that. Since I can’t relate to your excessive-defensiveness for Twi, further communication would be pointless. So how about we just shake hands and agree to disagree?
Let me start off with this. If the bats are unintelligent, fluttershy’s solution is not a solution at all since they would never respect a fence as a boundary for their feeding. If they are intelligent, then the ponies have every right to kick the bats off their property, and frankly the bats are at fault for initially deliberately causing this.
Even though most of the characters do seemingly uncharacteristic things all the time, screw up all the time and do things that are just stupid, I perceive the characters traits and personalities as things done in the show that were obviously intentional and done to show you the characters personalities and traits. When something happens that was done entirely as a plot device and regrettably conflicts with these intentional characterizations, I basically ignore it. With a cartoon, especially one that the writers still write as if un-analytical little kids were the only ones watching it, I feel that that’s not a half bad way of going about things.
“While it is true they should of built the preserve, there was NO WAY they could of set it up without delaying the bats. Their hunger was rapid and AJ did NOT want a repeat of them crippling the years crop.”
Yeah, Fluttershy’s solution on it’s own is worthless, and if the bats are merely animals, it would still be worthless and just lead to further destruction of the fields.
“THEY WERE BOTH IN THE RIGHT. Fluttershy could of convinced them to build a preserve once the farm was out of danger.”
She probably could, but why build a preserve when they live in a rural area where should you enter the everfree forest food is plentiful. In fact we know that in the everfree forest are zap apple trees that they can feast on, why put more strain on AJ to maintain another apple field (that she’s making no sustainable income on) when the bats could go somewhere else that doesn’t negatively effect AJ? If they were intelligent they should do that, if they’re not then again, a preserve would not work.
“The only problem…was the method suggested, Twilight’s.”
I will not disagree, I could think of a dozen solutions far better. When it comes down to it, I will chock this up to a necessary plot device (without which there would be no episode) that ultimately makes Twilight seem stupid.
“A spell she was a failure at before, and its an outright idiotic spell for long-term….they’ll starve if they don’t eat something else, and if it wasn’t for the fact they didn’t have as high a metabolism as the parasprites, they would of likely attacked other plants or people.”
It’s actually an entirely different spell. Who said it was long term? You said they were both in the right because Fluttershy’s plan was only a long term solution and they needed a short term one immediately, Twilight had one. That being said, if it is permanent it’s still rather stupid but it still wouldn’t cause them to starve. On earth there’s 2000+ types of fruit, so I have no doubt in my mind that they could live without apples, temporarily or permanently. Why would they go after other foods? A herbivore CAN’T EAT MEAT, let alone wood structures, so it’s absurd to think they would just start eating random things.
“a shitty, non-long term spell”
Who cares, they NEEDED an immediate solution, long term can wait a freaking day while the orchard is saved from destruction. You say “they were both in the right” and then said her solution is absolutely terrible, make up your mind.
“A spell she was no good at from before”
It’s a different spell, she did do bad before, this time she technically did it right.
“She still outright failed”
The spell was cast right. (excuse me for this being the only example I could think of) If someone is wearing a condom, and there is no child 9 months later and no transmitted diseases, but as it turns out one of the participants had a severe latex allergy that was unknown until that day….do you say the condom didn’t work? No, it did it’s job, there were just unforeseen side effects that could not have been known without first hand testing the effects of latex.
“Instead of simply containing them until they got the preserve set up and released them in it, Twilight came up with one of the spells she was the worst at.”
Yeah, it wasn’t the best solution. If they did do the best solution though, there would be no episode, no lesson, and fluttershy’s solution dismissed entirely. Though technically it COULD HAVE gone without a hitch and both of their plans work together, however, that would make for a crappy episode, so cue the writers making Twi seem incompetent.
“And yes, some of the blame DOES fall on the other 4’s shoulders due to the haste they made the decision.”
If all the rest of the ponies agreed on Twi’s spell instead of suggesting, “why don’t we just round them up?”, then they are just as much to blame, Fluttershy included since Twi’s spell apparently required Fluttershy’s stare (presumably just to make them stay still) and she perfectly willingly did the stare.
“And no, as much as I am a fan of Twi, she is still the least wisest and least independent of the group. She is a natural problem solver, but when a situation calls for natural wisdom, she falls flat.”
So not being perfect means you are unwise…yeah, okay. So the fact that the other 5 agreed on the plan doesn’t mean they’re unwise, but Twi alone…can’t argue will illogic like that.
“Not entirely her fault there.”
Then stop blaming her for everything.
“Also, Zennistrad, all the characters make serious mistakes. But there’s a difference. Here’s a chart of main characters who make mistakes but they are ACTUALLY acknowledged by them.”
Do you care to attempt to support any of that with evidence from the show (like i’ve done), or simply expect us to assume it’s true since you wrote it? The fact of the matter is very rarely do any of them get called out for or apologize for mistakes they’ve made (at least not on screen), and quite frankly it would be unnecessary since that’s a running theme in this show and it would get very old very fast, which is probably why they don’t show it.
Also, Zennistrad, all the characters make serious mistakes. But there’s a difference. Here’s a chart of main characters who make mistakes but they are ACTUALLY acknowledged by them.
Rainbow Dash (qualifies for the trope ‘Can’t Get Away With Nothin’)
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Rarity
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Applejack
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Fluttershy
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Twilight Sparkle
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Pinkie Pie (Protected by the trope Too Precious For This World)
The fact that her mistakes are somehow THAT plot protected without the excuse of being ‘the lovable freak we don’t know what to do with’ that Pinkie Pie has IS glaring. There’s nothing weird about it Zennistrad.