@Xolcm
 
Yes it was:
 
>>763959

@Xidphel  
I was on the end of a generation page yesterday and this number wasn’t there.

OP, could you please see if the image is already there next time?  
Because it was. The entire series was uploaded.

Sunset needs a swift kick in her rear. I offer my help for such a delicate operation.

@Princess♠Molestia  
And then the camera pulls out to reveal that the kids are dead.

@Princess♠Molestia
 
That would actually be funny XD

I can just imagine this cutting to a senile old pony in wasteland going “And that’s why everything is dead, kids!”

@Jarkes  
Apology accepted. :)
 
All right, to address your points.
 
“Regarding the Crystal Empire two-parter, while Twilight was a little bummed out about the whole test thing after the fact, keep in mind that she DID have the sense to discard worrying about it and tell Spike to get the Crystal Heart to Cadance when it looked like all hope was lost.”
 
I don’t disagree with that. She is NOT a complete failure as a protagonist, she does have the potential to break Celestia’s will when all seems lost otherwise, its just disappointing for a protagonist to have her moral priorities so out of whack that she let things come THAT far that her decision goes down to the last second. If I believed she was a complete failure on thinking for herself, her more recent revelations in the comics would of seemed completely OOC. She does have the potential to be a relatable protagonist, but the show doesn’t seem to want to give her one. (until Rainbow Rocks when she opens up to Sunset)
 
“And even then, she and the others were still happy about saving the day; they just wanted to make her feel better.”
 
I do agree she did feel good about that decision initially, it was a huge relief that they won afterall. But when her thoughts came back to herself breaking Celestia’s word, all that pride of saving the kingdom seemed to completely dissapear from Twilight’s mind. And not just that, everyone seemed to be on the same wavelength of her, and when she finally found out she wasn’t going to get a slap on the wrist, THAT was the cause for celebration.
 
Let me explain it using another episode as an example. Contextually speaking, Lesson Zero is both one of my favorite episodes and one of my least favorite episodes. In the context of S2, its one of my favorites. It funny, clever, does a nice trope reversal on the lesson learning thing, and it establishes a bigger connection with the other 9 main characters and Celestia, (the other 5, Spike, and the CMC), creating an equality among the cast. In context of the S3 and S4 however, it is one of my least favorites. Like….at the end of the episode, are the others SUPPOSED to treat Twilight’s academics as the second most serious problem in the world besides, literally, the end of the world.
 
“Also, I’ve seen a few theories that maybe Celestia’s REAL “test” in that situation was actually TRYING to get Twilight to not worry about pleasing her so much.”
 
Well the show outright has Celestia say she at least wanted to make sure Twilight was capable of disobeying her for the greater good, (which is hard to defend Celestia for), but…
 
…like you said, the payoff didn’t seem to happen. She didn’t disobey Celestia when she told her to keep them in the dark in Twilight’s Kingdom(which I will get to addressing). I think the reason Twilight was able to summon the gumption to say that to discord in KCAFO was because a) the order to reform Discord was more like a ‘to try and reform’, b) She hated Discord almost as much as Dash, and c) the pressure wasn’t on her, it was on Fluttershy. Once Discord finally was Fluttershy’s friend, a fact he rubbed in their faces in Three’s a Company, he was able to manipulate Twilight on being a good student of friendship to any end. As much as Cadence wanted to sugar coat it, Discord made sure Twilight didn’t do everything he asked out of personal friendship.
 
“ Celestia didn’t actually tell Twilight not to tell her friends about Discord’s betrayal; that was Twilight’s own mistake (holding that much alicorn power probably messed up her head a bit). She DID, on the other hand, tell her not to tell them about holding the powers of the other three alicorns on the grounds of it “making them a target.” Which, I’ll admit, has a bit of a hole in it; Tirek would’ve gone after them sooner or later anyway, and them knowing about Twilight holding the alicorn magic wouldn’t really have made a difference.”
 
It is true that Celestia didn’t ask Twilight to not tell them about Discord’s betrayal, but she was intentionally telling her to keep them in the dark. I’m not positive on what to make of Twilight’s stupid decision to not tell them about Discord. It seems she was SO concerned about following Celestia’s orders and not telling them about the current situation in detail about the magic transfer, that she was unwilling to even tell them about a life-or-death important detail about Discord’s betrayal.
 
I don’t know if that’s better or worse. One the one hand, if Celestia did say that, her betrayal of her friends would of been that much more obvious. But at the other hand, Discord’s betrayal was not a small matter to Twilight. If she was so afraid of breaking Celestia’s word that she felt she couldn’t risk telling them about this significant fact about the enemies that might of lead to them asking for more details on how things were being handled and her breaking Celestia’s word, that’s on Twilight. And honestly, the magic only seemed to effect her brain when Twilight got angry, as if they installed an ‘attack mode’ in Twilight’s brain to suddenly give her an enormous amount of magical control and fighting experience.

@CronoM
 
Okay, I was a jerk, and I’m sorry for that. Maybe I have become a little over-sensitive to this stuff. And I suppose my attitude earlier makes me no better than that one guy.
 
 
Anyway, here’s a couple counterpoints (at the moment, I don’t have time to address ALL of them, but these are the ones that stick out):  
Regarding the Crystal Empire two-parter, while Twilight was a little bummed out about the whole test thing after the fact, keep in mind that she DID have the sense to discard worrying about it and tell Spike to get the Crystal Heart to Cadance when it looked like all hope was lost. And even then, she and the others were still happy about saving the day; they just wanted to make her feel better.
 
Also, I’ve seen a few theories that maybe Celestia’s REAL “test” in that situation was actually TRYING to get Twilight to not worry about pleasing her so much. Whether or not this worked is debatable; when Discord brings up the possibility of disappointing Celestia to Twilight in KCAFO, she doesn’t fall for it, saying that the Princess would understand. But Twilight does seem to go back and forth with it every now and then.
 
And if I recall correctly, in “Twilight’s Kingdom,” Celestia didn’t actually tell Twilight not to tell her friends about Discord’s betrayal; that was Twilight’s own mistake (holding that much alicorn power probably messed up her head a bit). She DID, on the other hand, tell her not to tell them about holding the powers of the other three alicorns on the grounds of it “making them a target.” Which, I’ll admit, has a bit of a hole in it; Tirek would’ve gone after them sooner or later anyway, and them knowing about Twilight holding the alicorn magic wouldn’t really have made a difference. Plus, Celestia didn’t exactly think to cover the freaking stained-glass window depicting Twilight’s coronation right there in the throne room.
 
While I’ll admit that Twilight still seems a little too obsessed with pleasing Celestia, I will say that she’s certainly a lot better about it than she was in, say, “Lesson Zero.”
 
Once again, I’m sorry I acted like a total jerk and hypocrite.

@Jarkes  
So in other words, ever sense someone unjustly called you an idiot for liking a Canterlot Wedding (one of my favorite episodes btw) and dismissed everything you said in defense of it, you’ve become ‘sensitive to this kind of stuff’
 
Don’t you think that, given the way you’ve been acting and given your volatile reputation, you’ve become a little OVER-sensitive to this kind of stuff? As in your jumping the gun and accusing people of this when its not there.
 
I am only able to give my own personal anaylis in such detail BECAUSE I bounce ideas off other people and listen to them. Learning to look at things from different perspectives, reinforcing my own points, conceding to others counter points and learning, etc…..do you honestly think I came up with all of this on my own?! I’m not super smart, and I’m not some opinionated asshole who always thinks he’s right. I lay my analysis, my opinion, on the table just like everyone else.
 
After all, YOUR the one who just disregarded everything I said without any counterpoints of your own. Am I wrong?
 
“And since once someone actually DID tell me that I was an idiot for liking “A Canterlot Wedding” and dismissed any of the points I made, I can’t help but feel a little sensitive about this stuff.”
 
“The more I read CronoM’s comments, the more I wonder if I’m watching the same show he is.”
 
You let that original jerk get to you so much, your basically doing exactly what he did. You dismissed my points as trash without any counterpoints, you have no right to call yourself any better then the person who originally pissed you off. How do you even justify that?
 
You have counterpoints to what I’ve said? I’ll address them as best as I can. I have no idea why you have such anger against my opinions even though I’m more then happy to discuss them.
 
…Okay, ‘no idea’ is an exaggeration. I have seen you comment very calmly and reasonably about different aspects of the show on this site, but when it comes to Twilight Sparkle, you seem to lose your cool and get nasty.

@PonyPon
 
Well, that’s what it FEELS like given that he rarely ever addresses any counterpoints people make and just repeats the same damn things over and over. And since once someone actually DID tell me that I was an idiot for liking “A Canterlot Wedding” and dismissed any of the points I made, I can’t help but feel a little sensitive about this stuff.

@Jarkes  
I’m not sure we’re reading the same comments.

The more I read CronoM’s comments, the more I wonder if I’m watching the same show he is. But then again, he’s pretty much shown that he refuses to listen to anyone’s side other than his own, given that he responds to everyone who tries to counter his points with huge walls of text that basically amount to, “You’re wrong and a complete idiot for not seeing things my way.” Heck, he even claimed that Hasbro FORCED Amy Keating Rogers to be “vague” with the Journal of the Two Sisters while giving ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE other than “I didn’t like it, so that means I’m right.”

@ARchy4288  
Please talk to me buddy. I want to talk to you via message. If you don’t want to talk please just tell me why. ;(

@Background Pony #2432  
I’m glad we see eye to eye partially on those two episodes,.
 
But keep in mind those were just prime examples of the princesses doing nothing or doing things wrong directly, the big picture issues that have been present for a long time, and got significantly worse in S4, are addressed in Rainbow Rocks, a movie that felt more real then the last movie and the last 4 finale’s/premier’s combined. Celestia, and the plot itself, elevating Twilight to above her friends is a significant part of the problem. This created an awkward system where Twilight’s decisions were considered unflawed, and as a result, they couldn’t function as a team as well.
 
 
Twilight stopped looking for flaws in herself as a result of Celestia….Twilight didn’t see the issue in staying ignorant to the confusion until late in Castle-Mania, she didn’t see an issue in giving hypocritical advice she herself couldn’t follow in Daring Don’t and Rainbow Rocks, she didn’t see this issue of missing all the signs of the CMC’s peer pressure until Pip had to literally spell it out for her, she didn’t blame herself specifically for turning Fluttershy into a vampire, she didn’t blame herself for getting her friends captured by Discord and Tirek, etc….
 
…and keep in mind I’m not putting all the blame on Twilight OR Celestia, Twilight was very, VERY close to acknowledging her flaws, and growing as a person, in Three’s a Company had Cadence not made Twilight completely miss the point about Discord’s annoying(to them), chaotic but moral message. The story writing, or lack their of depending, was very crucial in making Celestia and Twilight less then sympathetic. For example, I felt a lot closer to Celestia when she was giving actual emotional praise to RD’s Sonic Rainboom or when she showed true fear when Tirek returned. However, those didn’t pay off in the long run.
 
“Twilight’s and Co.” is a completely ineffectual team when compared to the “Mane 6”. They work really when they work as a team and recognize each of them are just as capable of fault. That was always a little difficult for the town since Twilight was a guest of the Princess, but after the coronation(and during Crystal Empire) things got way worse.
 
In Rainbow Rocks it showed that unless Twilight changed, the team needed someone who could not only give common sense and criticism to Twilight like Spike or Rainbow Dash, or someone who could lead in situations she couldn’t like Rainbow Dash, but could connect with her through knowledge of magic and experience under Celestia. In a land of magic, having the person with the most magical expertise someone who’s moral priorities are whacked and was forced into extreme expectations, making her the defacto leader in many situations, is never a good idea.

@441TheSecond  
I care.

@CronoM  
I don’t care anymore about what category she falls under, it’s a waste of fucking time to argue about that. The writers doesn’t care, and nobody else cares. Why the hell should I.

@Millennial Dan  
Thanks! :)
 
@441TheSecond  
I think your description of DHX Celestia still falls under the catagory of ‘character who sits back and lets things play out’

@CronoM  
@Millennial Dan  
You know, if you were complaining specifically about “The Crystal Empire” and “Twilight’s Kingdom” and only those two stories, you could have mentioned that earlier rather than talking about how it was wrong for Celestia to allow Twilight to handle any situation where Equestrians were in danger. Because I agree that that particular aspect of those two stories was poorly handled.

@CronoM  
Neither, Celestia is a fucking tool used to move the story along, you’d have to be an idiot to think that she’s anything more than that.

@CronoM  
Exactly!

@Background Pony #2432  
You know there’s an inbetween, so stop acting childish.
 
World-Threatening foes need to be treated like world-threatening foes. If they say Sombra taking the crystal heart could spell doom for Equestria or Tirek was a big enough potential threat, it doesn’t take a genius writer to treat the situation as such, something they completely failed at(perhaps intentionally, considering Twilight’s slapped on role as main protagonist and Miss America princess was a giant setup for a fallen, dynamic main protagonist, Sunset Shimmer, a protege of Celestia who thinks for herself and believes in unity as a hero).
 
For example in Crystal empire, rewrite it so Celestia and Luna are aiding Cadence who was just barely hanging on and also show their attempts to give people hope while the Mane 6 figure out the problem. If a world threatening situation feels like a test for one person, someone who cares more about tests then heroism, where the leaders with the power are doing nothing and the other heroes are just distracting the people, your officially doing anything resembling drama or suspense wrong.
 
Are the princesses paving the way for the new heroes, or are they sitting back and letting things play out? Big difference.

@thps48  
Like I said, I don’t think my idea is actually viable. Though I’d be thrilled if something like that was made to work.

@Scrounge  
No idea. From what I’ve seen, good cartoons for little kids are created by those who hire psychologists and other empathetic professionals as consultants. Nothing comes to mind outside of sitcoms like Home Improvement. :L

Oh, I keep forget to mention until just after I should have, but let’s look at the tags.
 
celestia hate: 34 images  
luna hate: 1 image
 
This seems… Okay, I’m not surprised at all, I just wish I could be.