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think about that for a minute. I haven’t “othered” you, and yet you’ve used a wide blanket statement of hatred that happened to include me.
you’ve done quite a bit of that yourself, in professing your own hatred
there’s no getting away from it
the big thing to keep in mind with ridicule is that if you’re going to use it, use it well, and keep in mind that human minds (yourself included) are not fully rational, and in particular they are vulnerable to the backfire effect unless it is actively guarded against (and you should guard against it if you care about being right, but if your opponents are not rationalists, there is effectively zero chance of them doing so, which means it’s a massive anchor making discussion futile)
Agreed that a lot of those cults are harmful and should be regulated. However, bear in mind that shaming, ridiculing and “othering” people with unusual beliefs or practices is precisely the problem a lot of people have with atheism and the whole scientific skeptic movement. And being involved with a brony imageboard, I am pretty sure you are no stranger to outsiders - be them haters, trolls, or just non-bronies - doing this with our fandom. As a clopper I get this a lot.
I’ve got my own share of bizarre and unusual beliefs, but do I speak openly about them in most cases? No, because I know precisely that there are skeptics - many of them obnoxious trolls too - out there who will insult me and hate my guts just for existing. And that seems to be precisely what you are advocating.
That’s not quite why I don’t like RationalWiki
ridicule isn’t necessarily bad
it can be rational to use ridicule in certain situations
For example, if we ridicule UFO cultists, it probably won’t persuade the UFO cultists of anything, but it will attach a social stigma to being a UFO cultist and perhaps prevent people (maybe even people we care about) from joining some sort of suicidal UFO cult
That’s total bullshit.
I think it would go something like this:
“Now, just to be clear,” Harry said, “if the professor does levitate you, Dad, when you know you haven’t been attached to any wires, that’s going to be sufficient evidence. You’re not going to turn around and say that it’s a magician’s trick. That wouldn’t be fair play. If you feel that way, you should say so now, and we can figure out a different experiment instead.”
Harry’s father, Professor Michael Verres-Evans, rolled his eyes. “Yes, Harry.”
“And you, Mum, your theory says that the professor should be able to do this, and if that doesn’t happen, you’ll admit you’re mistaken. Nothing about how magic doesn’t work when people are sceptical of it, or anything like that.”
Deputy Headmistress Minerva McGonagall was watching Harry with a bemused expression. She looked quite witchy in her black robes and pointed hat, but when she spoke she sounded formal and Scottish, which didn’t go together with the look at all. At first glance she looked like someone who ought to cackle and put babies into cauldrons, but the whole effect was ruined as soon as she opened her mouth. “Is that sufficient, Mr. Potter?” she said. “Shall I go ahead and demonstrate?”
“Sufficient? Probably not,” Harry said. “But at least it will help. Go ahead, Deputy Headmistress.”
“Just Professor will do,” said she, and then, “Wingardium Leviosa.”
Harry looked at his father.
“Huh,” Harry said.
His father looked back at him. “Huh,” his father echoed.
A very good point there sir. Also, ever notice how they’re so big on pointing out logical fallacies, yet they use the “appeal to ridicule” fallacy in pretty much every article of theirs? :P
Nah, you don’t come across as arrogant at all. You are just passionate about science. Btw, your scientific explanation for Winter Wrap-Up was especially well-written and interesting. It reminds me of the stuff I learned in college astronomy class a few semesters ago.
Also, I wouldn’t let anybody get you down about the fact that you wrote that little bit about QM and you are into conventional science. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. I know my roommate is a really smart particle physics major who I often go to with questions about the scientific plausibility of my sci-fi series (I am semi-into hard science fiction, or at least harder than a typical series like Star Wars or Star Trek,) yet he is also into homeopathy and acupuncture. I agree to disagree with him on the effectiveness of those disciplines (though I do recall having at least some success with acupuncture, be it through the placebo effect or something else…but I only used it for psychological issues such as my phobias,) but aside from that, he is very much the same mindset as me.
I don’t like rationalwiki
they aren’t very rational
really, they haven’t moved past being how-to-“beat”-a-creationist-in-an-online-debate-wiki, which is an okay thing to be, I guess, but I don’t think they’ve done anything useful, and I don’t think that they’re persuading anyone of anything
Hey you, go back to RationalWiki :P
aaaa nooooo there are people in the comments taking quantum mysticism seriously
that’s even more horrible
The Discworld series by Sir Terry Pratchett tend to be written in a somewhat ironical/satirical sense. Best not to take any quotes from it at face value.
Actually, I’m pretty sure QM doesn’t work that way… That’s just using ignorance of actual physics to come up with a solution that tries to make everyone happy and thus avoid conflict/getting on peoples’ bad sides.
In truth, there really is one single, solidified reality that all observers agree on (agree on in the technical sense, whether or not they actually agree on it - ie, if one observer sees a particle is in X non frame-dependent state, then all observers will see the same thing - there actually are things that are not frame dependent, and all frames predictably transform into eachother when their relative properties are taken into consideration). It’s just how it behaves on tiny scales isn’t intuitive to our everyday understanding.
@Da5ch
+1. As an astrophysics student, I see this way too much. It really bothers me how many people go into the sciences just so they can vindicate their arrogance, or try to assert some intellectual superiority. IMO, a good scientist won’t care about his ethos so much as he will just want to discover the truth.
I’ll ramble on about physics stuff sometimes (Heck, I’ve got an entire blog dedicated to it), I hope I don’t come off as too arrogant; I’m just really passionate about the subject material… Otherwise I wouldn’t be rambling on about it XD
We’re dealing with a setting in which magic is possible. Normally, I want to brick people in the face when they invoke quantum mechanics as an excuse for their silly-ass beliefs, but under the circumstances, I’m willing to tolerate it.
I think I like you…
Actually, skeptics would be utterly perplexed by any sort of magic, be it pony magic or EqG magic. I remember actually reading something ages ago on a skeptic website complaining about Feeling Pinkie Keen…it was hilarious to see the so-called “intellectually superior” crowd up in arms about colorful talking horses. And oddly enough, it made me think Pinkie Pie was even more awesome, just because she was the bane of their existence in that episode.
I hate self-righteous atheists/skeptics with a passion, I really do. Some atheists are good and decent people, but the ones whose methods of “educating and spreading enlightenment” are mostly limited to insulting and belittling anyone who believes in the supernatural, are no better than fundamentalist Christians and Muslims. But I do agree with you that pseudoscience is wrong, especially when it’s used as a money-making scheme. I personally believe religion/spirituality should be nonprofit.
ohh it’s entanglement god particle duality probability cloud therefore magic!
<3
Then there is the witches’ explanation, which comes in two forms, depending on the age of the witch. Older witches hardly put words to it at all, but may suspect in their hearts that the universe really doesn’t know what the hell is going on and consists of a zillion trillion billion possibilities, and could become any one of them if a trained mind rigid with quantum certainty was inserted into the crack and twisted; that, if you really had to make someone’s hat explode, all you needed to do was twist into that universe where a large number of hat molecules all decide at the same time to bounce off in different directions.
Younger witches, on the other hand, talk about it all the time and believe it involves crystals, mystic forces, and dancing about without yer drawers on.
Everyone may be right, all at the same time. That’s the thing about quantum.”
― Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies
Then again, “It’s very hard to talk quantum using a language originally designed to tell other monkeys where the ripe fruit is.”
― Terry Pratchett, Night watch