@The_Mungoman
 
Well, again, as ive said. You dont matter, the religion does. Your own anti-homosexual stance doesnt matter to me. But the religion has one, and is therefore ethically unsound and open to be criticised.
 
It was never about you. It was about you claiming that a religion that clearly considers homosexuals immoral is in some way perfect or all-inclusive.
 
“Obviously all religions are incorrect scientifically”  
“Smarter men than you or me have been unable to prove that statement.”
 
Actually… literally anyone with access to a dictionary is able to prove that statement. The scientific method, properly carried out, does not demand a high IQ. And thats not me trying to be mean, or insult, its simple fact. To simplify, the scientific method demands repeatable controlled experiments in order to verify something being correct or existing. We know the force of gravity exists, because it can be tested by dropping things from a building. We know evolution exists because we can make living organisms change in front of us. W
 
Because no religion’s supernatural elements can be proven correct, and a handful can be actively disproven, they are not scientifically valid and are therefore incorrect until proven otherwise. Its a nice, simple system.

@The_Mungoman  
I’m not saying you should denounce it if you genuinely believe in it. I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy in calling it tolerant when it outright states “Homosexuality is wrong.”

@DudeManGuy  
Pff, I’m not gonna denounce my faith just to win a little internet argument.

@The_Mungoman  
Probably should’ve pick a different religion to represent yourself with in this thread, then, considering the one you did pick has a very clear anti-gay stance.

@clockworkinsomniac  
“ just tell us you want to mount homosexual skulls to the front of your car”  
Made me chuckle.
 
“you can have all the disapproving thoughts you like in the privacy of your own mind”  
That is exactly my point. What I think doesn’t really matter, what I do does.
 
Not all people who are religious were religious since their childhoods, you know. Not all people are bullied into religion. Sadly, some are, but I wasn’t. The Baha’is I know weren’t. One has the free choice to be a Baha’i or not to choose the religion. I thought long and hard before becoming a Baha’i, and I do not regret my choice.
 
“Obviously all religions are incorrect scientifically”  
Smarter men than you or me have been unable to prove that statement.
 
All in all, I nothing more to say. I simply promise that I shall follow my faith peacefully and shall not bother anyone or cause anyone misery.  
And if that’s not okay with you, I am at a loss.

@The_Mungoman
 
Oh come along now. Have some damn backbone and just tell us you want to mount homosexual skulls to the front of your car. I miss the days when people were out and up front with their own particular hatreds.
 
Anyway, on a more serious note, this really isnt about you personally. Essentially, no one is saying you personally need to 100% approve of gays. Provided you dont treat them any differently from others, you can have all the disapproving thoughts you like in the privacy of your own mind. Thats fine. And if you want to feel the same about blacks/women/the french/daleks etc. thats also fine. It doesnt really make you a great person, but its fine.
 
(Though i dont honestly understand exactly what you mean by ‘disagreeing’ with homosexuality if you dont judge it poorly on moral grounds.)
 
However, there is a difference between tolerating but not agreeing with something when its a religion doing the tolerating.
 
@The_Mungoman  
@The_Mungoman
 
The root of the problem here seems to be that you think this religion is okay because while it says being homosexual is wrong, it doesnt actually discriminate against them. And you dont seem to understand why this is a problem.
 
Essentially, you need clarification on why this particular attitude is fucked up.
 
So here it is.
 
A religion is different to you personally. Because religion has a position of power. Children growing up will look to their religion for guidance, because thats what they will have been taught to do by their parents. They trust it absolutely, placing illogical reverence in its words. And some of those kids will grow up gay. And theyll see that their religion disapproves of the scary new thoughts they find coming up in the time where they are at their most vulnerable. And they kill themselves. A lot.
 
Catholicism has been having this problem for a while.
 
Obviously all religions are incorrect scientifically, but mankind has the capability to come up with its own codes of ethics without requiring religions anymore. And this religion happens to violate the parts of mine and DudeManGuy’s ethical codes that say claiming homosexuality is wrong based on an unspecified position of nonfactual dogma is - in a word - bollocks. This religion doesnt have the moral right to make that claim unchallenged, because no one does.
 
While again, no one gives a damn about your personal opinions while they are located safely inside your head a religion wears its opinions on its T-Shirt and spreads them to people following it. And if the best you can claim about your religion and gays is that it doesnt actively kick them out of the sermon despite how disgustingly immoral they are - you arent looking at an ethically sound religion and certainly not one which could be considered nondiscriminatory.

@The_Mungoman  
…sounds pretty gay bro

@DudeManGuy  
I can’t do more than say what I think.  
I will not mistreat or hurt or hate on anyone. That is all.
 
My personal opinions are secondary. Our actions are what truly matters in this world, not our beliefs or our thoughts.

@The_Mungoman  
“That religion accepts other faiths, respects people who don’t agree with them, believes that all of humankind should live as one, is structured democratically, has no clergy or people who ‘interpret’ the words of the prophet, does not feel the need to mock dissenters, says religion should coexist in harmony with science and that every human being should independently search for the truth and say that man and woman are equal.”
 
And then outright says homosexuality is wrong. Your claim that the religion is accepting of everybody dies a loud, painful death right there.

@The_Mungoman  
It’s homophobia. There is no argument. That passage Mephistopholese quoted is outright saying that being gay is wrong. I don’t need to argue a damn thing.

@Background Pony  
Isee what you mean, but doesn’t discrimination imply that you actually discriminate people? That you treat them differently? That you dislike them and want to segregate them from society?
 
Tolerating others isn’t enough. Tolerating merely means coexisting. But I think one should not only tolerate others but love others, as one would love oneself. And if you can love someone like that, it doesn’t matter what their sexuality or their gender or the colour of their skin is.
 
I personally try to have no hateful feelings towards anyone. I do not think that gay people should be treated any differently than any other. And isn’t that enough in this life, that you act respectfully and equally with everyone?

@The_Mungoman  
How about that it’s still incredibly discriminatory? It’s like saying you don’t condone women but you’ll still tolerate them, or you don’t condone black people but you’ll still tolerate them. Saying that being gay is wrong is a huge problem, no matter what your attitude towards gay people are.

@DudeManGuy  
All you’re saying is that the outlook is “horrible”, but there’s no argument backing it up. I would like to hear why you think so.

@The_Mungoman  
It’s still a religion that outright says homosexuality is wrong, which is a horrible attitude no matter how you phrase it.

@clockworkinsomniac  
I probably should have chosen my words better, condone was not the best term I could have used.
 
But to bring my viewpoint across, let me use a very crass example: I don’t condone lying. But do I hate liars? I try not to. I try to love everyone equally, no matter what I think their flaws are. I mighteven be wrong about their flaws, what do I know.
 
Now do not get me wrong, I am not trying to say that homosexuality is as bad as lying, that would be awful and wrong. Heck, I personally wouldn’t even say homosexuality is bad per se, it’s just that I do not agree. Besides, I haven’t had the chance to meet many people who are outwardly homosexual, but I would not have a problem doing so, I bet they can be just as kind and thoughtful as any other individual can be, and I would not morally judge them for being homosexuals, for it is not my job to morally judge anyone.  
But just because you don’t agree with someone does not mean you cannot live peacefully by their side. Isn’t that the key to a peaceful life, loving and accepting one another despite us not agreeing?

@Background Pony
 
Pretty much this. You cant use ‘condone’ in a positive way, though people often forget the definition of the damn word.
 
To give a primer. To condone something is to accept something with reluctance, generally the thing being in some way morally questionable.
 
To not condone something is basically say its wrong and you dont accept it, but saying it in a way that avoids basically saying ‘yeah, we hate the fuckers too’. Its the cowards way out. “Whats your opinion on homosexuals?” “Well, we dont condone homosexuality.’
 
At least if they put it flatly like the catholics do i could respect sticking to your guns. But i always feel people who use that ’ we dont condone ’ phrase are trying to hide their own disaproval behind people who dont read dictionaries.

@The_Mungoman  
Oh please. “Not condoning” homosexuals is horrible, and just as bad as hating them. It’s a disgusting viewpoint.

@The_Mungoman
 
You have a great deal more confidence in humanities good points than i do. Our ‘current time’ is pretty nightmarish by my eyes. Not necessarily much worse than the past, but the horrors and evils are instead of the more mundane hidden sort than out in our face.
 
Plus, its all well and good saying lots of those things. Actually practicing it is a different manner. The religion and science side by side thing comes across as the most difficult one, since by nature they destroy one another when they meet. You can use all the pretty words you want to describe yourself - mostly all religions claim themselves to be peaceful for example - but that doesnt actually make it true.

Don’t understand the downvotes, lets all just imagine it’s a hoodie with floral fluttershy print. That being said the face and hair are funky.

@Mephistopheles  
BUT there is no hatred towards homosexuals. They are not shunned.
 
Just because one does not condone homosexuality, does not mean one hates homosexuals. Homosexuals are human beings like any other and should definitely be treated as such.

@The_Mungoman
 
Hate to burst your bubble, but…
 
“No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong. To say that it is ideal is no excuse. Immorality of every sort is really forbidden by Bahá’u’lláh, and homosexual relationships He looks upon as such, besides being against nature.”
 
Lights of Guidance, p. 365, #1223

@clockworkinsomniac  
I strongly disagree.
 
Take a look at the Baha’i faith, for instance.  
That religion accepts other faiths, respects people who don’t agree with them, believes that all of humankind should live as one, is structured democratically, has no clergy or people who “interpret” the words of the prophet, does not feel the need to mock dissenters, says religion should coexist in harmony with science and that every human being should independently search for the truth and say that man and woman are equal.
 
If that is not appropriate for our current time, I don’t know what is.

This is why I like taking art at a superficial value. If you try to figure out meaning beyond how pretty it looks, you’ll just come up with a bunch of crap.

This is muslim? Muslims can be blonde?

@Background Pony  
Unfortunately, it would appear that those of us that think this way are in the minority. :I