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I just thought he looked exhausted from concentrating on the book tower and stuff, then sort of shoved past her as he darted out to his family due to sheer excitement. I dunno, I didn’t get that she was a “bad kid” from just that short bit.
Anyway…
I’m feeling that I missed something
Maybe they mean the way Sunburst didn’t look all that enthused to be playing with Starlight?
It wasn’t shown how much else she had happen in childhood. She wasn’t a very pleasant child to begin with or that kid wouldn’t make these sort of faces and then run away ASAP.
Maybe she was spoiled and equally weak for that to affect her so. Maybe she didn’t get hugged enough and thus multiplied the force of it in her mind until it could affect her.
I do agree it’s absolutely garbage character treatment. I also think it’s an insult (both how she got evil and how she was “redeemed”) to everyone who suffered childhood abuse - in reality consequences of which, regardless of whether the abused grew up into an abuser themselves or just into extremely damaged regular person, take DECADES to resolve.
A proper leader would be the approachable sort
Oh, I’m not disputing that she was a terrible leader– or a terrible person– it’s just that the villagers seemed more afraid of rebuke than of a beatdown; it was part of what made
No Name CityOur Town so special creepy, because the residents were acting more like a bunch of whipped dogs than prisoners in fear of the truncheon. Getting scolded was more frightening to them than getting their faces lasered off, and that’s just… disturbing.holy crap is her reason for turning bad weak
I don’t think that her reason for starting down the path of villainy was weak at all, bigger monsters have been bred in the real world from lesser slights; it was the complete and total lack of followup that made it weak to me. Star/Twi/light’s exchange of “You don’t know anything about me!” and “I don’t know what happened that led you to make your village without cutie marks” could have sold the character and her Heel/Face Turn completely if it had come five or six minutes earlier in the episode and been followed by a How I Turned Evil In Ten Easy Steps montage. If I hadn’t been watching the clock with growing horror at how little time was left in the episode at that point, I would’ve honestly expected a “Do You Want To See The Moon Rise?” kind of song where she recounted all the failures and frustrations that spun out of losing her BFF as a child and slowly drove her to the kind of madness that sees starting a cult town in the mountains as a good idea. That could have been brilliant, starting out singing soft and sad and confused and getting harsher and angrier with each stanza until she was yelling out the last lines in rage.
I’m seriously hoping we get some kind of exploration in the S6 Premiere of the steps in between her neigh-bro moving away and the Mane Six moving in.
There are also people who use what you’re doing to deflect an argument they have no answers for because not once in my entire post you’re responding to ever hinted at what your talking about had me accusing you of.I never accused you of ever stating that either. I specifically said you’re implying that all her issues that she had was being sourced from this one event but with how you’re justifying it it sounds like multiple sources which is impossible as her personality change would make zero sense. Twilight solving this one problem apparently was her only problem all along which is contradicting with how she was portrayed in the premiere.
“Your assertions of Starlight listening to Twilight being unrealistic and impossible rely on the assumptions that Starlight was irredeemable and Starlight dealing with the fact that her actions would lead Equestria to ruin shouldn’t have mattered, which is ridiculous.”
I’m sorry what? Did you honestly just state that Starlight would listen to Twilight because she’s not irredeemable? WHAT!!???? What kind of retort is that? She flat out insulted her reasoning and that alone would’ve destroyed any reason for her to listen to Twilight. By the way I’m not disagreeing with your statement about her possibly listening to Twilight. Twilight however fucks this up completely by saying
Twilight Sparkle: That’s ridiculous. A cutie mark can’t take your friends away.
After her conflict with Moondancer even the little details of Starlights backstory should’ve hit home for Twilight with how they were separated due to OR from a friend due to destiny should’ve been more than bit home for Twilight to empathize with. Such as she didn’t because of either bad writing or she wasn’t open minded or enough which makes the Moondancer parallel they’re trying to do with Starlight’s redemption fall even flatter and makes it even worse in that regard.
Your are implying that something significant has to be similar to their backstories to be able to empathise. That can’t be farther from the truth. You can also empathize with smaller details but as such Twilight didn’t at all which means any words she said to Starlight would’ve had no impact on her morality. If anything Twilight is in a worser spot than she was in the premiere.
Of course she can’t apologize in Sunburst place. That would just further insult Starlight. Honestly though if you ask me despite her backstory being weak she has more parallels to AppleBloom than anyone else.
“After Starlight and Twilight returned to the event of Raimbow Dash’s race for the final time and Starlight began ripping the scroll, Twilight admits that she didn’t know what Starlight went through. In fact, she didn’t know how important other ponies’ friendships were to Equestria until Starlight showed her backstory to her.”
Your statement and whatever the episode is talking about completely contradicts with what the episode showed. The wasteland scene literally tells us that only Mane 6 friendships are the only ones that matter. Every other friendship is irrelevant because they are literally so important that they cause a dead world. If anyone else’s friendships were ever important then surely ruining their friendships causes a dead world too but nope it doesn’t
@The Smiling Pony
Yeah I liked Glimmer alot better when she was a normal unicorn that was intelligently and manipulative but now she’s just a Twilight reject who’s selectively stupid.
OK, first of all, nobody except you cares about all this “accused of being another anon” malarkey. And I’m not really reading Pagan’s posts to begin with, so… take your “facts” and shove ‘em.
@TexasUberAlles
Ignoring how cults work to begin with (massive amounts of peer pressure and self-reporting, enforced from the top ie. Glimmer), three of the “Equal Four” made it clear that they don’t want to go against Glimmer, don’t want her to know they have doubts, or that they told the main six about the vault. Why? If Glimmer’s not the “bad” sort why would they care so much to not have Glimmer specifically know? A proper leader would be the approachable sort that you could discuss your worries with, not fear their disappointment or ire. Then when Glimmer’s asking Flutter’s to expose them, they’re clearly afraid of being named out, to the point where one of them sacrifices himself to save the others. Why, if they don’t expect actual punishment? You can even see the guy sweat when being interrogated to give up his co-conspirators. Then speed up to Party Favour calling her out; she turn to him in rage and fires up her magic… for what? He already doesn’t have a cutie mark, what other magic could she have been about to cast at him? Would she have a history of such outbursts when questioned or confronted?
Whether or not Glimmer believed in her utopia or not is a moot point; plenty of wackos in positions of power were true believers. She certainly knew she was going at it “the bad way”, between her admitting her ideology didn’t work without magical and physical enforcement and her list of lies. Plus how any time a character wasn’t looking at her she’d be giving off one of those evil smirks, angry smiles, or distrustful glances.
See, here’s the thing; I liked s05e01-02/25-26(-4 minutes) Glimmer. She was a normal pony that for some reason went wrong and did evil. Real, scary, evil, not just bully someone or try to pull off a scam. Not an ancient horror, demi-god or holding an powerful cursed relic, but just a pony.
And then the story just killed that character off. Glimmer wasn’t bad, she was just hurt and misguided. She gave a meek “sorry”, and since Twilight declared her to be so sorry and that she was so ultra powerful (ie. no longer normal), she should be her special pupil. And then montage of everyone so happy to be friends with someone that just months ago kidnapped them, locked them in a room and tried to brainwash them; that just hours ago had spent a day playing time lord and attacking Twilight specifically to ruin their lives. All crammed into a 1-2 minute montage. What took Twilight half a season to accomplish, starting off from saving the world, Glimmer managed in a shoddy montage.
I have weak hopes for what is to come regarding her. Maybe the old character comes back, maybe something triggers her dark side again, we get a “lesson” in “not everyone can be saved” or whatever. More likely than not we’ll get another a main 6.5 and she ends up appearing more than Spike or Zecora. And certainly more than Celestia.
And on a sidenote, holy crap is her reason for turning bad weak. She lost one childhood friend when she was, what, 6? God damn, woman. I was a military brat, I never lived in the same place form more than two years until I got my second job after uni. I can’t even count how many close friends (and more) I’ve lost and the worst I’ve done is host this place. Jesus, Equestria has a postal service, use it.
Show me where all or even most of the villagers were afraid of her
You’re kindasorta highly obnoxious so I assumed you were just blowin’ a lot of air here, but going back and looking at the episodes again… for all their pained smiles and shifty eyes, the villagers actually do seem more nervous about the possibility that the ideology they’d all bet their personal destinies on might be massively flawed than they are that Starlight will Soylent Green them if they step out of line. I think he’s overstating it out of hatred for SG, but TSP still has a point in that they also seemed afraid of being publicly thought-shamed and sent back to the Re-Education Room. After everything fell apart they didn’t rush to attack her or imprison her or anything like that, they just stormed the cave to get their cutie marks back; the Equal Four only chased her because they were trying to get the Mane Six’s marks back.
For fucks sake I already said Discord should have gotten some kind of consequence for his betrayal no one is ignoring that stop trying to use it as proof of something cause it’s not and she wasn’t exiled she left to escape with the cutie marks and get revenge on Twilight she was accepted back the next time she went back and seeing the future she would cause did nothing that’s not a consequence she ignored it.
Yeah anons look the same you all are just talking numbers who hide their identity so they can shit talk without anyone knowing who it is and I’ve been here long enough to know that’s the majority and it’s why I won’t ever click the coward out button.
And no I didn’t lie I thought it was you cause it was an anon I even admitted to that cause unlike you have humility and can accept when I made a mistake but please keep shit talking.
Something tells me they aren’t just going to make Starlight some VIP Background Pony. If they’re serious with this whole ‘teaching Starlight friendship’ idea then I doubt they’d just not have her appear for half the season. Of course I could be wrong and the S6 premier could just end with Starlight and Sunburst running off and eloping.
Show me where all or even most of the villagers were afraid of her. You’re restating your points because you can’t substantiate them. Also, she decided to forcibly take the Mane Six’s cutie marks because she deemed them to be a threat for seeming to encourage dissent in her village. Your excuse for claiming things that you can’t adequate prove is that you think that those can be safely assumed.
What about the fact that you’re trying to make excuses for Pagan stating that another anonymous poster and I were the same person without any proof? You seem to think that you’re justified in doing so because I’m an anonymous poster, which is fallacious reasoning.
@Pagan
Then Discord betrays the Mane Six and Equestria in the season 4 finale, Tirek betrays him, he reforms, then he doesn’t receive a punishment. Starlight received the consequence of being practically exiled from her village after her actions in the season 5 premiere and she witnessed one of the bad futures in the finale.
Oh, anonymous posters are apparently the same to you. Basically, you admit to lying by stating that you didn’t accuse me of being the same as another poster.
Agreed, like I said I’m not against her being reformed I just think there should be consequences for her actions because people like to forget that this show actually teaches lessons many of which even adults can relate to and this was just not a good a message.
wondering about the purpose of this ship
The lavender-hot goodness of pink-on-purple action, obviously.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ no idea, mate, it makes no sense
@The Smiling Pony
Come on, Boss– if you keep being so sour and bitter at the same time you’re gonna start foaming at the mouth like a science fair volcano.
I think fears of “The Mane Seven Featuring STARLIGHT GLIMMER and some other dumb horses i guess” will probably turn out to be unfounded, given how loathe the Story Editors have proven themselves to keep up a season-long arc; one of the regular complaints about Season 4 and 5 was that there weren’t enough Key/Map episodes to make them feel like coherent ongoing storylines. We hardly saw any weeping and gnashing of horseteeth about Friendship Princess’s new role in Equestria outside of the S4 Premiere and Finale, and I honestly think Starlight will be treated the same way; a Big Deal in the opener and closer, but an occasionally referenced afterthought in the 22 eps in between. If she does end up being a Big Deal all the way through, that’s gonna suck bugs for everyone who hates her and wants her to melt, sure, so… sorry in advance if I turn out to be wrong, I guess.
willing to do anything
I still don’t think she was a murderer, though, mostly because she seemed way too egotistical for that; just vorping somepony outright would be tantamount to an admission that she wasn’t capable of converting (or at least breaking) them, and she was way too invested in her wackadoodle social engineering mad science experiment to admit that kind of ideological defeat. She was clearly all effed up, but I just cannot agree with the characterization of Starlight as nothing but a Crazy-Ass Psycho Villain; her “My village was a sanctuary of equality!” tirade in the S5 Finale didn’t come across at all like a looneybin villain trying to justify their villainy, it sounded exactly like what it said on the tin– that she was a nutter who genuinely believed in her nutter ideology, and was willing to go to villainous lengths to preserve it (and, yes, get looneybin revenge for being thwarted in that preservation).
@Pagan
he didn’t get off scott free like Starlight
I reeeaaalllly hope we get to see some of her former villagers straight telling her to GTFO when she approaches them asking for forgiveness, and I hope that her Crazytown Days are the reason for the SEASON 6 SPOILERIFFIC failed attempt at reconciliation with Sunburst from the second episode, because yeah, she definitely does need to suffer through some kind of consequences for her crapulosity in the knowledge that she deserves it and that those who don’t want to know her anymore aren’t wrong for it. It’s a lesson I think the show needs to teach more often– as in, “more than just that one time in S1”– that if you screw up badly enough it can cost you friends you won’t be able to get back, so, uh, try not to screw up that bad okay.
What if the show did an epilogue set some years down the road where a more grown Spike and Rarity ended up together?
It’s fiction, people can headcanon whatever ships they want however they want. I just won’t.
So what do you think of people who ship the two together despite the age difference?
Again I never stated that being punished made them BETTER I just told him Discord didn’t get redeemed for less cause he didn’t he wasn’t trusted right away by everyone and in the end he had to make sacrifice to be their friend THERE WERE CONSEQUENCES FOR HIS ACTIONS he didn’t get off scott free like Starlight which the other person was trying say didn’t happen.
… Oooooooooooooooh I’ll admit I thought you typed that you anons all look the same.
You said that in response to someone else who stated “Discord was redeemed for less.” You stated that at least Discord was punished by being imprisoned in stone and that only Fluttershy trusted him as if it would make his reformation after his actions in the Season 4 finale more justified just because he was punished before.
Next time, pay attention. Another anonymous poster who responded to one of my comments argued that Starlight’s reformation was instant while justifying Discord and Sunset Shimmer’s reformations by stating that they “suffered the consequences of their actions”.
Explain to me how this
@Pagan
was not an accusation of the other anonymous poster and I being the same person. You’re trying to make excuses.
And yeah, I’ll assume things that seem safe to assume. The villagers were terrified of her, they followed her every order, they cowered at the thought of displeasing her, they were more than ready to physically capture, restrain and imprison the main six, they had a room with loudspeakers giving off “you are worthless” voice clips on repeat. Assuming that Starlight’s playing the role of a sociopathic manipulative cult leader willing to do anything is as safe an assumption as thinking that the hydra intended to eat Twilight way back when, even though we never saw it eat anyone or do more than chase and holler at our heroes.
But hey buddy, don’t worry, 3 weeks from now your waifu will be in the M7 and we can all see how fantastic she is and how absolutely nothing from her S05 opener character is retained or mentioned.
I didn’t say it helped him I merely stated he was punished but you left out the bit where the other person said discord was never punished and was accepted immediately which he wasn’t I at no point said it helped him or was justified but please keep putting words in my mouth.
@Background Pony #A9B5
Bullshit.
You directed that at me and can’t be a general statement since no one else mentioned it but me.
What the fuck are you even talking about? I never claimed anyone else was you my gods are you just going to keep making shit up and putting words in my mouth? Cause that’s all you have done.
Also nice job taking 3 days to come up with a retort.
So, is it okay for you to make assumptions and treat them as fact? Did all of the other villagers show that they were afraid of her? Was the usage of the brainwashing room ever referenced in regard to any of the other villagers? If you do not have a definite answer to any of those questions, then you shouldn’t claim otherwise.
I didn’t even need to go through Pagan’s posts. I saw his post when I looked at the respective picture. The fact that I post as an anonymous poster is meaningless in regard to the statements that I make. Also, he accused me of having an account on this site and not using it, which I guess that you agree with only because he shares your opinions.
The villagers were terrified of her, the room already existed with speakers blaring her recording on repeat, and Double Diamond didn’t have a second’s doubt in attacking Twilight when given the order. It’s pretty clear she had this brainwashing cult leader thing down pat, including all the sinister and dark elements that role carries. That she didn’t do this or that, at least on screen, doesn’t take away that that’s her character.
Also I find it kinda shitty that you post as anon, go look through named users’ posts for “dirt” on them, then on top whine that people are confusing you with other anons.