Newspapers are Magic!

@Justice4243  
WELL, I NEVER

@DiscipleOfAndrewRyan  
Your point was continuously asking for context after we had already given it to you, Decrying everything you disagreed with as fanon, despite it being backed up by the characters action and words and posting a link I can only assume led to someone else’s argument.

@DiscipleOfAndrewRyan  
Honestly, the jackass part comes from you dropping memes and rather insulting pics while claiming some sort of conversation high ground in lieu of trying to engage or even really kicking off a civil debate.

@NovaQuill  
I don’t have to because you won’t listen; there’s no point in wasting my breath further with you guys. I might as well talk to a brick wall at this point.  
 
you probably think I’m some sort of jackass just because (1) I don’t like Sunset and (2) I am actually making some reasonable (albeit few) points. well, see you on the highway to hell stairway to heaven.

@DiscipleOfAndrewRyan  
Heh. I think Trixie’s rap sheet is far less impressive than Starlight’s or Sunset’s if one at least if factor in intent, but she’s certainly not really set on improving herself. At least Starlight is trying… or trying to try?

@DiscipleOfAndrewRyan  
Quality? Bigger picture? It’s a Kids movie designed to hock toys. What Sunset says and how she reacts to what happens to her are all the context the scene needs.

@DiscipleOfAndrewRyan  
You know, posting the same link over and over doesn’t help your argument, it just proves you have no further points to make.

@Azyrite  
 
oh good Lord, you too?! *sigh*  
are your standards for quality storytelling that low?! damn.
 
@Azyrite  

that’s bull – you’re just taking bits of scenes out of context instead of looking at the big picture. guess I’ve no other choice.

@Justice4243  
Truly, Trixie is a far greater monster then either Sunset or starlight.

Bleh. Forgot to log in. I’ll claim the below. Also… Green hair?

@DiscipleOfAndrewRyan  
She literally transformed into a being of evil and it’s not like there’s a rulebook saying you have to show outward signs you’re fighting a complete transformation to prove you’re not actually evil. I mean, if you think the below is the face someone makes when all is going ‘according to plan’, there’s just not much merit in this conversation.
 
>>350425
 
Honestly, I like the idea that Starlight is really figuring out what being ‘good’ means and is struggling with the idea that the ends don’t justify the means. I find her more compelling in that case then I would if someone suddenly just flipped a ‘good’ switch on her as her actions don’t really lend themselves to that where’s a Sunset whose motives are more spoiled rebellious teenager in nature. But the picture above is in regards to an episode where Starlight actually mind controlled the cast in the name of friendship. Offhandedly comparing Starlight to a well-liked historical figure and Sunset to a whose policies resulting in a death toll in the tens of millions isn’t exactly a great way to kick off a debate anyone would expect to be all that mind opening.

@DiscipleOfAndrewRyan  
The tears, her insisitsance that she isn’t a monster, The surprise on her face when the transformation began And her immediate remorse and horror at what she became is the context. More then enough visual and behavioural clues to come to the conclusion that her worst behaviour was due to being mind screwed. It’s a visual medium.
 
If I remember correctly however, Starlight never showed any hesitation when it came to violence. The earth shaking laser she fired at her followers, blasting filly dash out of the sky and so on. She even doubled down on her actions when showed the horrific consequences they would cause.

@DiscipleOfAndrewRyan  
I’ve read it, interesting take, but I don’t agree.
 
You’re also implying I don’t see the merits of your argument. I do, I just don’t agree with them. My eyes aren’t shut, they just see differently than yours.

@NovaQuill  
if what I say won’t open your mind to another perspective, then maybe this will (though I doubt it).

@Justice4243  

because she didn’t see herself that way – she felt justified in her actions and believed she could do no wrong. a lot of scummy and seedy people think that way.
 

okay, now you’re just fucking with me! you can interpret that scene (read: take it out of context) however you want, but if you’re gonna make a good rebuttal, do not bring your fanons/fantasies into the conversation. the most logical interpretation would be that her transformation was too painful at first. if she regretted all the bad things she’d done or realized her plan backfired, then tell me why was she so happy when she became a demon? why didn’t she become petrified when she saw herself after transforming or fight against it?? your fanon makes no sense in the slightest.

@DiscipleOfAndrewRyan  
For someone who you say wanted to kill Twilight, she had ample opportunity (including having a sledgehammer in her hands-which she promptly dropped) she did nothing with it, and was immediately repentant upon her defeat.
 
And by ‘slight Twilight’ you mean utterly destroying her future. Heheh, yeah sure. She’s a true upstanding citizen.
 
Ok, I got my cult leaders mixed up, I will admit that. I was thinking Jim Jones (Jonestown) but Manson was what came out, my bad, sorry. But a surprisingly large amount is the same regardless.
 
I think the comparison is more on the nose than you are willing to admit. She either coerced or brainwashed dozens if not hundreds of others into going to a remote location, removed from the contact of their loved ones and the control of the government, used tactics like social shunning and isolation to make sure that they obeyed, lied often, and made sure she had all of the power at any given time.
 
A lot of that does apply to Sunset during her bullying times, but not nearly on the same scale or severity. I’m sorry, neither are saints, but Glimmer is hardly in anything resembling a position to be put on a pedestal.
 
Either way, looking up cult leaders killed my mood, and the conversation isn’t fun any longer, have a good one!

@DiscipleOfAndrewRyan  
Sunset literally said she wasn’t a monster and had no real intention of harming anyone. Sure she made a few threats and got into a kinda sad nerd fight with Twilight, but the evidence seems to point that she probably had something to prove to Celestia. Subtle stuff like the tear she drops before she transforms and the fact she turns so readily suggests her plan backfired at worst.
 
I’ll grant Glimmy didn’t mean to almost destroy the world a buncha times, but she engaged in forced impressment, brainwashing, stalking, intentionally attacking Twilight (possibly accidentally Spike), and she kinda continues to show maybe doesn’t get this whole “ethics” thing ponies keep going on about even when reformed. I mean… Calling Sunset Moa is pretty rich considering the show went out of their way to show Sunset is basically Communist Dictator pony.
 
I mean, if we can overlook Starlights accidental world destruction as part of her evil plan, it should be fair to overlook the demon thing. Just that Sunset’s evil is pretty much cinematic high school bullying coupled with theft of a magical artifact, while Glim-Glam was an actual dictator.

@NovaQuill  
Sunset wanted to kill Twilight for her crown; Starlight went beck to the past to get rid of cutie marks and slight Twilight for destroying her utopia.
 
and bad comparison, bro – if anyone’s the Charles Manson around here, it’d be either King Sombra, Queen Chrysalis, or Lord Tirek.

@DiscipleOfAndrewRyan
 
Heheh, I’m not always sure why people turn stuff like this into “My waifu is better than your waifu!” But it’s entertaining.
 
To use a comparison, you are saying that Charles Manson(Glimmy) is no worse than someone who steals a puppy for all of two minutes.

@NovaQuill  
pretty much what you’re saying about Starlight also applies to Sunset as well.  
kidnapping – she had Spike held hostage to force Twilight to relinquish the Element of Magic.  
brainwashing – she used mind control on the entire school to do her bidding.
 
and I know that Sunset has done much worse than just mere rebellion – you just don’t want to see it.

@DiscipleOfAndrewRyan  
I… What? Yes she stole a crown, and acted like the supreme queen bee of a highschool for several years, was a extreme bully, and destroyed a wall, but I’m uncertain how what could equate to a “I’m mad at my mom.” Rebellion is worse than stealing a town’s worth of people’s livelihood, brainwashing, kidnapping, and later being the catalyst to multiple dimensions utter destruction (at worst) or years worth of war, pain and death at best.

@redweasel  
@Starswirl  
okay, now you guys are just comparing Franklin Delano Roosevelt (Glimmer) to Mao Zedong (Shimmer). >:/

@redweasel  
Against what Starlight did?
 
Hoh… I’d say Starlight’s actions are worse.
 
Second episode, if at all. Plus after they rejected Celestia, I don’t think anypony considered them hers anymore.

@Starswirl
 
okay yeah that is kinda evil.
 
so… how does it stack up against stealing cutie marks, then imprisoning the ponies in a tiny shack so you can passive aggressively bully them into joining you?
 
technically twilight did steal the elements of harmony, in the first episode…