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“Much of Oceanic society is based upon the USSR under Joseph Stalin—Big Brother; the televised Two Minutes Hate is ritual demonisation of the enemies of the State, especially Emmanuel Goldstein (viz Leon Trotsky); altered photographs and newspaper articles create unpersons deleted from the national historical record, including even founding members of the regime (Jones, Aaronson and Rutherford) in the 1960s purges (viz the Soviet Purges of the 1930s, in which leaders of the Bolshevik Revolution were similarly treated).”
Whatever you say, Comrade Benito…
Of course not.
The closest we have ever gotten to 1984 was the Soviet Union.
Nazi Germany as definitely Authoritarian but it was sure as shit not Totalitarian, there is a difference.
If we do not do what it is that you seem to hate so much, then eventually we will get a totalitarian communist society.
The other end doesn’t even want communism, the only time you ever find pure totalitarianism is in communist societies.
If we allow a general free for all, in the end the communists will win because as of right now they have more money, resources, and power on their side.
We have to educate society and ultimate establish a governmental system that makes it flat out illegal to do the things that these people are trying to do.
I don’t know what else to tell you.
Especially since your saying you’d rather live in Somalia than in the US if Somalia had 100% total personal freedom and the US had anything less than that.
It’s a good episode. Lots of great gags, and a good message that you’ll probably hate. Have you actually watched most of this show? I mean, that was an early season one episode, so I’m just curious.
Anyway, to answer your question - Freedom. I would absolutely choose freedom over subordination. No surprise though; American culture highly values individualism over collectivism, so it’s probably fair to say I’m at least somewhat a product of the society I grew up in. I also grew up in a pretty racially-diverse town, so maybe that’s colored (heh) my perception as well. The bottom line is this: I know all too well that there are good people of all backgrounds, and I see no reason to separate myself from them on the basis of race. Haven’t done it so far, and won’t be doing it in the future. If you want to do it, that’s your prerogative, but kindly leave other people out of it.
I said it before, but trying to police other peoples’ behavior and personal associations for the so-called “greater good” is pretty much exactly an SJW’s M.O. It may be from the opposite side of the political spectrum, but it’s the same approach and - tying this all back to the image post that started this comment thread - pretty much the same kind of anti-individualism that Starlight Glimmer was all about. The far-left and far-right are two sides of the same coin, and both are ideologically incompatible with personal liberty.
“what you want has no realistic chance of happening”
Actually, my general views on things are on the rise in 1st world countries around the world.
Its the response to the extreme far left and SJWs and such.
Eventually people get fed up with their bullshit
Even though everything I am saying is based on facts and I have not insulted any race even once
inb4 you called them uncivilized
Well you go look up pictures of Somalia and other sub-saharan african countries and you tell me with a straight face that they look civilized to you
Oh and before anyone says “no everyone doesnt have AIDs thats a stereotype”
You wanna make a bet?
http://www.avert.org/hiv-aids-sub-saharan-africa.htm
And the Europeans were trying to deal with it, but now there are no Europeans to deal with it anymore.
“Apartheid was bad. And it was bad most of all because it told grown adults who they could and couldn’t associate with. It flew in the face of personal freedom, and that kind of overreaching governmental control isn’t worth any end result.”
Dude, fuck personal freedom.
Sub-Saharan Africa has looked like pic related since forever
It looked like that when the Europeans showed up, and then they turned them into semi-modern places. Yes, semi-, because it was still a work in progress.
But then all the blacks said “days raciss”, and due to the European empires collapsing from the wake of World War II, they were not powerful enough to maintain what they had and were forced out.
South Africa was the greatest country in ALL of Africa, not just the sub-saharan part.
And then the whites were driven out, and yeah they ended the segregation, yeah the blacks were treated a little worse, mostly due to them being uneducated and kinda uncivilized, so that all stopped, but then what were they left with?
Poverty, plague, drought, famine, warlords, corrupt government officials, AIDs fucking everywhere.
Song related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yC7HwPh6Es
Would you rather be slightly subordinate to much more advanced, civilized, yet benevolent people, and have a WAAAAY higher quality of life?
Or would you rather be 100% independent and now your living in a hut made out of straw and animal shit?
And I haven’t seen bridal gossip so I dunno
Alright, so it’s pretty clear the reason we disagree on the issue of racism has more to do with the fact that we disagree on the fundamental principles of how much individual freedoms people should have. This is one of those situations where neither of us are really going to convince the other, but I do wonder if you really view your ideal as a realistic goal or as the pipe dream that it actually is.
In any event, I promised I’d touch on this, so I will - Apartheid was bad. And it was bad most of all because it told grown adults who they could and couldn’t associate with. It flew in the face of personal freedom, and that kind of overreaching governmental control isn’t worth any end result.
Furthermore, the black citizens of South Africa were demonstrably treated worse than the white citizens were; “Separate but equal” didn’t happen there, it didn’t happen during America’s segregated period, and it wouldn’t happen in any hypothetical segregated future country either (not that that’s the point, since mandatory segregation - equal treatment or no - still utterly destroys personal freedom). As someone who thinks, “Hey, treat all humans with basic human decency,” that’s another valid reason to turn up my nose at Apartheid and snub it for the clearly racist tripe that it was.
Anyway, it looks like we’re at an impasse. All I can say is that I hate your philosophy, your views on race, and your desire to impose those views on others through force of law. But eh, I don’t hate you personally. I see you as misguided and a little on the deluded side since - as established - what you want has no realistic chance of happening, nor should it.
Somewhat lighter question though - as a fellow MLP fan, what did you think of “Bridle Gossip,” it being the show’s “racism is bad” episode?
Some level of authoritarianism is needed. If not then people can subvert the society and degrade it like what they are doing now.
All societies finally end in one extreme or another, at the very ultimate far left or far right, and with some level of authoritarianism paired with it.
If you have a society that isn’t at one of those yet, then the cultural marxists will do everything they can to try to push it towards the ultimate left until finally you get countries like the Soviet Union.
The only way to stop subversion and cultural warfare is to make it flat out illegal.
“your side of the political spectrum is usually all about keeping the government as miminally-involved in peoples’ lives as possible”
I’m not a libertarian, try again
Still sounds crazy-authoritarian to suggest that the government should regulate romantic relationships between consenting adults in any way whatsoever, grandfather clause or no.
I think that’s my biggest issue with you; It’s not even your personal views, but that you think you would force society to comply with those views if you had the power to do so. And yes, I’m aware there are liberals, moderates, conservatives, and everything in between who’d do the same thing - but I’m not one of them. In the same position of power, I wouldn’t force people to accept interracial relationships, or force people to befriend people or what-have-you if they don’t want to; They can go on publicly disapproving of whatever they want, shunning whoever they want, etc. as long as they don’t force me to do anything.
I believe strongly in freedom of association, so your contention that the government should tell adults who they can and can’t be with flies in the face of personal liberty and freedom, something I think most of us here are ardent supporters of.
I mean, it’s a good thing you don’t actually have any realistic chance of enacting those kinds of regulations, and we’re just speaking in hypotheticals here. But the fact that you genuinely would regulate who adults can and cannot date is kind of weird, especially since your side of the political spectrum is usually all about keeping the government as miminally-involved in peoples’ lives as possible (which is, incidentally, one of the right-wing tenants I do believe in; I’m fiscally conservative, even if I’m socially liberal).
“But see, that kind of rhetoric doesn’t sit well with me because I’m in one such relationship already”
And there’s the problem, you are not willing to look at this and deal with it rationally because you are letting your emotions rule you. Because you’ve already gotten yourself into an interacial relationship, you automatically jump to defend it against all arguments because its personal to you.
But the truth is you made a mistake.
Now I don’t know what the others think, but if I could control it, and somehow stopped all the cultural marxist stuff, I would allow interacial relationships that already exist to continue as normal, but no new ones would be allowed.
So you would be grandfather claused in basically.
Although breaking up would be strongly encouraged, there would be no penalties for not doing so.
And no, none of this sounds nuts to me, because I am actually trying to preserve diversity, not destroy it.
But see, that kind of rhetoric doesn’t sit well with me because I’m in one such relationship already; So to take your statement to its logical end, if you somehow succeeded at “banning” it, as you want, what would happen to relationships like mine?
Would happy interracial couples be forcibly separated in your ideal world? I dunno, man, doesn’t that sound even the least bit nuts to you at all?
The interacial stuff needs to be banned because so many people are doing it that it makes a bad situation (multiculturalism and mass immigration) even worse.
You said it yourself, your not trying to wipe out OR preserve any race or culture or whatever, and that’s the problem. Your apathetic towards it, me and a lot of others are not.
But what about when two people fall in love? Serious question here - To you, should such people throw up their hands and go “Welp, even though we enjoy each others’ company and have tons in common, I guess we can’t, because genocide”?
Surely you can see why a lot of us aren’t really feeling that. I’m not trying to actively preserve or wipe out any kind of ethnic purity here. That’s not a motivator for me one way or the other. I just date people I like because I like them.
Nobody’s saying you have to go find yourself a non-white girlfriend/boyfriend or anything. If you have personal hangups about interracial relationships, I’d just leave it a “You do you, I’ll do me” kind of thing. I think the issue here is you condemning others for doing it (or even just being okay with it). And make no mistake, you have the freedom to condemn whoever you want for whatever you want (even supposed genocide), but it doesn’t mean I won’t feel compelled to criticize you for it or vocally disagree.
As for apartheid, I’ll respond later in depth. Right now I’m on my phone and have too much to say for this touch-keyboard. I’ll get back to you because you specifically asked.
For now at least, I’m standing by my “Any two adults who want to be together should be free to do so” stance though, and am leaving this here in the meantime.
It’s not that the different races cant be friends or interact with eachother. It’s that they need to make sure that doing so doesn’t cause them to lose what makes them unique.
That is the general point. If all cultures blend, all races merge, then eventually we will all be one big blob that speaks the exact same language, and has a weird culture that is a blend of all others.
It would be very boring, and it would be terrible for people, like me, who don’t want to see individual cultures, especially European culture, dissapear.
And the races dissapearing is even worse than the cultures, that’s called genocide.
“Oh but genocide is intentional”
Yeah, and so is what all of the politicians are doing, encouraging and aiding all of this cultural and racial destruction. Because it makes it easier to control and exploit everyone.
And you could try responding to stuff like my comments on apartheid and such.
I responded more or less by saying those points didn’t really matter. You can talk about trends and generalizations all you want, but at the end of the day, it does come down to individual differences between individual people.
Your end goal is basically “People of other races shouldn’t be allowed to be friends, romantic partners, or essentially meaningfully interact with each other at all anymore,” yeah? So as someone who already has a number of positive relationships with people (many of whom aren’t white) that I care very dearly about, I think your ideal segregated world sounds both unappealing and unrealistic.
You didn’t actually respond to any of my points you know.
And I never said I blamed everyone but white people, none of us do. We are just realistic enough to know that multi-culturalism is bad and creates bad results.
Addendum: You may wanna go back and rewatch “Bridle Gossip.” Pretty relevant message there. :P
Bah, I don’t care about any of that.
I have wonderful friends, many of whom happen to not be white (which includes my wonderfully sweet significant other). What of it? The people I associate with, I do so for who they are on the inside, not because of how much they physically resemble me. There are good and bad people of all racial backgrounds; I choose my company based on A.) common interests, and B.) how well we get along. So if you’re a nice person who likes the same things I do (say, MLP for example?), you’re aces with me.
I dunno, people like you strike me as the opposite (yet just as ridiculous) extreme of SJWs. Like some kind of social injustice warrior (is that a thing?).
Anyway, I’ll say it again. Whether you’re blaming all white people (i.e. SJWs) or blaming everyone but white people (i.e. you) for the world’s problems, you’re being equally ridiculous. Define a person by who they are, not what they are. Define people individually. My whiteness doesn’t make me who I am; My individual experiences and choices do. Same for you, same for anyone. Makes a lot more sense to look at people that way.
But hey, I’m just a crazy SJW for even entertaining the idea that you should just treat people equally regardless of race/gender/orientation/etc., so what do I know.
“Oh but your still wrong, they don’t need to assimilate, yadayadayada”
Just look at what Sweden has turned into. The worst country in Europe.
Loads of crime, poverty, and racial, religious, and gender conflict. And not just between whites and other races, its everyone fighting with everyone.
That’s what happens