Took me so long to realize this was modeled after that scene from episode 10 of Cowboy Bebop

@Baskerville3  
If you had nothing relevant to say besides tl;dr, what was the point in dragging me back into to this pointless line of questioning?
 
Remember when I said
 
“Seriously? Are you still hung up on this? _Ughhh “
 
Honestly, what was the point? If your so insecure in your beliefs that you’d say something as pathetic as  
I didn’t even bother to read it and No one reply to this, what was the point in continuing this conversation at all? You like arguments? I like actual discussion! The least you could of done was just agree to disagree, but your petty attacks on the artist and people who like his work and his world has practically become a self-parody on this site. Its seriously juvenile. Grow up.

@DAPLR
 
@CronoM
 
Actually, imma just end it here. crono, i didn’t even bother to read it, cuz i’m starting to see it as pointless. It’s another universe that i just can’t accept. (universe being an artist’s world and their creations and views). PRobably half the lovers of Sundown’s work can’t accept. I try at times to accept it, but i can’t because i make it feel official and canon. And plus, i just love arguments. This started with why Sundown couldn’t just put Twilight in a group image. Then it turned into us discussing a character. i’m ending it with this comment: “Sundown can do whatever he feels. Whatever makes sense to him makes sense to him. It’s his universe. It’s his vision. It’s his fantasies. Let an artist create.”
 
No one reply to this

@CronoM  
@Baskerville3  
Would you two mind settling this in private messages?

@Baskerville3  
Heck even you admitted she has not connection to real life issues.
 
“and as for not working, technically the library would count, but it wasn’t evidenced as much. plus she only studied. in fact we were never even given a look at what she did prior to studying. For all we know, Celestia probably just gives her a certain amount of money to live there.”

@Baskerville3  
Seriously? Are you still hung up on this? _Ughhh
 
“ AJ and barely Rarity”  
“ but Twilight made them accept their differences.”
 
They already knew each other’s habits and what each of them could do like the back of their hand. They were the young female versions of ‘grumpy old men’ right from the start. And if you remember, they mostly ignored Twilight because she was completely clueless socially back then, and they eventually sorted their differences on their own while Twilight was distracted with protocol.
 
“RD and Rarity”
 
They don’t share many common interests, but they know each other well. Rarity made that abundantly clear at the beginning of Sonic Rainboom, while Twilight remained mostly clueless. (Even before that Rainbow Dash was willing to put on a frilly dress for Rarity even though she’s more a tomboy then AJ)
 
“Fluttershy and Rarity”
 
Fluttershy may not be as close with Rarity as she is with RD, but they have long been friends in feminine activities.
 
In fact, none of the new relationships between the 5 had anything to do with Twilight. RD and Pinkie? Pinkie and AJ? They happened completely independent of Twilight.
 
Twi’s connection with the rest of the 6 is as loose as AJ’s connection to Fluttershy, which the exception of RD and Twi of course. A lot of fans have noted that as much as she values her friends, she doesn’t really respect them. Dash is the only one willing to get in her face when its necessary, and that’s actually a sign of strong connection, even if its one-sided in recent seasons.
 
“is that they weren’t truly a circle of friends”
 
They were a circle of 5 friends as shown two times before Twilight became a part of their group. In fact, who did Dash call on when investigating the newcomer, Twilight Sparkle? Her circle of friends. Facts, man. Use them.
 
“their stupidest move in the beginning of season 4?”
 
Are you referring to the episode where the other 5 not only gave up after 2 tries….but the writers SOMEHOW didn’t know a thing about AJ, when AJ thought magical artifacts were more important then their actual bonds of friendship.
 
Think about it logically. When a character’s personality’s do not fit with 99.9% of their normal personality, and is in fact the exact opposite, its simply something to discard. Its not like it was a credible episode or anything like that. The difference in writing quality between Princess Twilight Sparkle, and Rainbow Rocks, despite it both being written by Meghan, is so drastic its insane….Of course, editorial Hasbro mandate is often to blame for botched episodes, cause we know how damn good DHX are. They are really, REALLY good.
 
“ A scope they use to keep their attention on what must happen.”
 
She is at best a good organizer. However, her observational skills are shite. Remember, Chrysals intentionally acted that way to discredit Twilight, who she knew would shrug off her friend’s opinions once she got fruestrated, (pull AJ’s hat down her head), and make it known how right she was, falling right into the trap of Shining Armor’s double-layered brainwashing giving a perfect alibi. Remember, while Celestia was organizing the wedding, Twilight also knew the real Cadence.
 

@CronoM  
on the first two quotations i was a little tired back then and meant to say “she doesn’t pop” and on the other i meant to say “fact”
 
and as for not working, technically the library would count, but it wasn’t evidenced as much. plus she only studied. in fact we were never even given a look at what she did prior to studying. For all we know, Celestia probably just gives her a certain amount of money to live there.
 
“they were friends or acquaintances before Twilight, BOTH when they did a surprise party for Twilight in episode 1 and when Rainbow Dash noticed Twilight and, along with her 4 friends, investigated Twilight and stopped her from going into the forest alone and getting herself killed. Maybe you should rewatch the older episodes, refresh your memory.”
 
btw, the word i was looking for was acquaintances. i just forgot it somehow.  
the thing i was saying about their friendship, is that they weren’t truly a circle of friends. Like I said: RD and Shy, AJ and RD, Pie and everybody, AJ and barely Rarity. those were the friends. Rd only knew rarity but could only barely be considered acquaintances. Fluttershy barely knew Rarity either. The same goes for shy with AJ. (i know that Shy was barely explored at all, but the point still stands, that her interaction with others was low) this was before twilight popped up. twilight is the one friend they have that truly connects all 5 of them with her and make a full circle, because of the same reason they stopped her from going into the forest. Because she met them first. That’s the only reason. at first the ones that conflicted could only tolerate one another, but Twilight made them accept their differences. remember the sleepover episode AJ and Rarity had with twilight? they could barely stand each other at all. Sure twilight didnt stop truly solve anything, but she did start the spark that would get them to notice what was wrong. As for not getting killed, remember when for the first time, the Mane 6 decided to try to solve a major problem, on their own, without Twilight? their stupidest move in the beginning of season 4? they thought they knew what to do, but they screwed up in a heartbeat. The same goes for their winter wrap-up. They were poorly organized. Twilight is a best a silent leader. She’s not as developed or explored, but we know she can lead and get ponies to work together.
 
The sad thing about this to me, is that the more i think about it, Sundown’s vagabond mane 5, are completely unorganized. I mean look at mane 6 image sundown did that shows twilight and the others, but in a similar one he did, twilight is removed because of an edit. they’re going at it right there! At best the group probably couldn’t get very far. due to opposite views, and wasting time! Twilight is at best a scope. A scope they use to keep their attention on what must happen. She even spots things that the others miss. Like that wedding episode (WHICH I HATE WITH ALL MY LIFE!!! FOR CHANGELING QUEEN, SHE SURE DID SUCK!)
 
also, i got to know. You reference Rainbow Rocks and Sunset. what’s going on with that? What did you mean?

@chaos15  
Heh, true XD
 
Of course, Amelia may be royal, innocent and helpful, but one could hardly call her life truly pampered. Twilight’s life was such that even before she was a princess, she never had to deal with normal problems or form strong opinions of her own. Amelia, on the other hand, has very strong moral and personal opinions of her own not limited to rules or expectations, and is far more developed then Twilight is currently. IDW Comics 17 through 20 tried to give Twilight some Amelia-like development for her personal opinions and morals, and they did pretty well, but since Hasbro doesn’t allow characters to gain more development then the show-current, they had IDW just reset her personality to match the end of the season.
 
To say the least, getting show-Twilight to the point where she could fit in naturally with unbound protagonists is a long road. However, Rainbow Rocks was the first to give a large hint of a seed of healthy doubt and change, and maybe after the third movie, Sunset can be the Lina to Twilight’s Amelia. I certainly wouldn’t mind that at all :)

@CronoM  
Continuity is iffy in the show anyways.
 
And royals can totally work with vagabonds heroes.  

@Baskerville3  
“he doesn’t pop up at all with the princesses. i mean she does in one”  
“ it’s the face taht he doesn’t include her in group shots
 
And considering how rarely he draws Twilight, how is that not an example? Sundown’s Mane 5 are a bunch of vagabond heroes , Twilight’s life couldn’t connect to that if you tried. Heck it barely fits in the actual show, nobody’s pointed out she doesn’t have to work to live even before she became a princess.
 
Heck, even Jim Miller pointed out her role as ‘leader’ was more akin to Cyclops from X-men then a traditional central-focus main character. I don’t know what you want me to say if even some of the writers say that.
 
“ before twilight even popped up, rarity, AJ, RD, flutter, and Pinkie, never really were “friends””
 
Not sure where you got your odd info, they were friends or acquaintances before Twilight, BOTH when they did a surprise party for Twilight in episode 1 and when Rainbow Dash noticed Twilight and, along with her 4 friends, investigated Twilight and stopped her from going into the forest alone and getting herself killed. Maybe you should rewatch the older episodes, refresh your memory.
 
The only reason Rainbow Dash didn’t know Pinkie Pie well is that until recently, both of them were off-and-on residents of Ponyville, while AJ and Rarity were raised there(we don’t know the whens and hows of after Fluttershy got her cutie mark, her backstory has sort of a blank spot). Rainbow Dash became a permanent resident only after she dropped out of the later years of flight camp(otherwise people would of known about Gilda), and Pinkie was raised on a rock farm, but was schooled in Ponyville and eventually got a job in Ponyville. The only part of the equation of Rainbow Dash getting to know Pinkie Pie was time living together, Twilight had nothing to do with that. And Rarity and AJ were always like that.

@Background Pony #3A4C  
“..Because she’s more part of Celestia’s princess group then the Ponyville group as of late? And even in the long run? The mane 5 were friends long before Twilight, and it wasn’t even Twilight who formed the new group with Twilight. It was Rainbow Dash initially, and Celestia cemented there roles as elemeents.”
 
when ya think about it, Twilight is part of that princess group, but it’s not even shown or evidenced by sundown’s work. she doesn’t pop up at all with the princesses. i mean she does in one, and it’s her being upset about her breast size, but that’s like the only one. plus, she doesn’t really even hang with the princesses at all. and as for friendship with the other girls, when ya think about it, before twilight even popped up, rarity, AJ, RD, flutter, and Pinkie, never really were “friends”. i mean they were, but look at like this. dash was friends with fluttershy and applejack, applejack and rarity not really, pinkie with everypony, and rarity and dash no. basically what i’m saying is, Twilight connects all 5 girls, instead of the 5 only having one or two friends. In a sense, they were just ponies that knew each other aside from Pinkie who was friends with everypony. basically, colleagues.
 
“Besides Rainbow Dash, who forms a unique bond with everybody of the main group”
 
and as for that part, some may not remember, but she avoided pinkie a lot and even considered her annoying in that episode with Gilda. Even to rarity, the two would rarely be seen together. there’s really no bond there at all. They differ too much. the only main dynamic twi would even have is with Dash and books.
 
i don’t mind that he doesn’t like Twilight. I mean if i got better and people wanted me to draw chrysalis, i’d nope out of there. Hate her with a passion. but to reiterate what Background Pony#9012 said, it’s the face taht he doesn’t include her in group shots. the only i’m really even commenting, is because a thought occurred. the more i look at sundown’s work of the mane 6 without Twilight, the more i start to accept it not as him disliking Twilight. But as simply this is the Equestria Girls universe where Twilight isn’t really present. and in a more battle sense

So it looks like Sundown’s giving them more and more “character” with each new piece of art.
 
… I look forward to seeing new things.

While it would be nice for him to draw Twi again, I’m just glad seeing a drawing where everybody has varying body types. I thought were stuck with Thunderthigh Jack and big hip ladies.

@Background Pony #9012  
Heck, I bet if he drew his characters with a sundown version of reformed Sunset Shimmer, nobody would give a shit cause people would go “ah, he likes that group. That’s fine then.”

@Background Pony #9012  
“The power ranger example is fucking perfect. Why draw a mane 6 scene and not include THE main character from that group?”
 
..Because she’s more part of Celestia’s princess group then the Ponyville group as of late? And even in the long run? The mane 5 were friends long before Twilight, and it wasn’t even Twilight who formed the new group with Twilight. It was Rainbow Dash initially, and Celestia cemented there roles as elemeents.
 
She’s the least emotionally involved character in the Mane 6, and she doesn’t even have to work for a living. Besides Rainbow Dash, who forms a unique bond with everybody of the main group, does Twilight have any unique dynamic with the other main characters? She doesn’t, even her relationship with Spike hasn’t evolved since episode 1, which is extremely odd. That and her cultist-level hyper-dependency with Celestia that supersedes her friendships.
 
That doesn’t sound like a central Red Ranger, that sounds like a replaceable Red Ranger, like Rocky. Why do you think the role of main character was so easily tossed to Sunset in the eyes of the audience and fanbase?
 
People mention his removal of Twilight so often because they are uncomfortable addressing the concept that became real in Rainbow Rocks, that Twilight was becoming either a distraction or a pragmatic character. I personally want to see Twilight written well, but that hasn’t happened for many in like 1 or 2 seasons, mileage may vary of course.

Love the style. :3

@DAPLR  
TL;DR at the end.
 
See, the reason people complain so much about Twilight in Sundown’s work isn’t because he doesn’t draw enough of her. That’s not it it. If Sundown doesn’t like Twilight, he has every right to just NOT draw her!
 
However, the reason people bitch about Twilight not being there is because Sundown deliberately draws the entire mane 6 group in a scene, and purposely secludes Twilight from it. If he was just drawing one character per picture, or a pair of characters in a picture, no one would ever bitch. But Sundown draws the mane 6 doing something, and just doesn’t include a member of the mane 6.
 
The power ranger example is fucking perfect. Why draw a mane 6 scene and not include THE main character from that group? Why even bother drawing the mane 6 doing something if you’re only going to draw 5 of them? The reason people (like my dumb ass) care so much, is because this is a multiple occurrence type thing with Sundown.
 
I get he doesn’t like drawing her, whatever. But check out most of his recent Mane “6” pictures. Out of 12 of his Mane “6” pictures, 3 include Twilight. One of them even goes as far as to include 5 of the mane 6, and fucking Spike. He included Spike instead of Twilight. Like, really? If all 12 were missing Twilight, I wouldn’t even bothered typing this out, as clearly Sundown doesn’t include Twilight in “his” mane 6. But no, he’s totally capable of drawing her in, he just doesn’t. Because shes a mary sue or whatever bullshit reason he said. He’s being a baby.
 
But what the fuck am I talking about, it’s his work and he can do whatever the fuck he wants. Yeah he’ll get constant bitching and moaning but he’ll have to deal with it, because he’s purposely putting himself in a situation where it will come ot him. But hell, here I am, bitching about a character not being in my high quality, free porn pic. Sad, eh?
 
TL;DR It isn’t about people being upset Sundown doesn’t draw Twilight, it’s people being upset Sundown draws the entire mane 6 and just deliberately removing Twilight just because he doesn’t like her.

@chaos15  
Think of a character, in any media, that you don’t like even to think about. For me, it’s human Flash Sentry(my blood is boiling at the thought). Anyway, imagine that, and you have a large fanbase of people who love your drawings of lots of other characters, but they continuously ask for you to draw that character you outright dislike. You’re Power Ranger argument, sure, makes sense, but from Sunny’s point of view, that SUCKS!

@Background Pony #85EC  
That’s what leaving her out means!

@Background Pony #85EC  
@DAPLR  
Because it’s like if I drew the Power Rangers but left out the Red Ranger.  
Or if I drew the Straw Hats but left out Luffy.  
Or if I drew the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles but left out Leonardo.  
Or drew the Maximals but left out Optimus Primal.

@Jofca  
bet if it was Aj or rarity they wouldnt even notice

@DAPLR  
Or maybe it bugs them not seeing the entire main cast.

@Background Pony #85EC  
I guess some people can’t handle him disliking a character they like so much, and that seemingly everyone else likes at least some.

@PonyPon  
He doesn’t leave her out, he’s stated clearly he doesn’t like her and doesn’t want to draw her.

Rarity: ‘I’m trying to get her to quit….she’s trying to ignore me…’