Its an interesting topic, one I wouldn’t mind necro-posting to.
I feel a lot arguments in the comment section kind of got a tangent that missed a lot of obvious points. Is Luna a masochist?
Well….in a way. However you describe it, pleasure or guilt driven justice, at the end of the day she was using the tantabus to put herself through a debilitating sort of nightmare where she is punished for her wrong doing….and the act, while certainly unhealthy, was actual a relief to her mental state. And in its absence, despair. Until she was literally forced to change her mindset about her trauma.
She was using the tantabus, not to inflict self harm and spiral into more misery (she was using it for way too long without any worsening mental state), but to pep her up for the coming day. She was getting gratification out of it. It was a need that she wanted fulfilled to pep herself up for day.
Whether it was sexual in nature or not is irrelevant. The fact remains her method she chose to deal to function normally during the waking hours, and instead of going to a therapist, she came up with this messed up method of happily being defeated.
Another tangent was too much talk of endorphins. Well, there are plenty of masochists that don’t take pleasure from physical pain. Some people take pleasure and relief in emotional degradation. Some people enjoy being called worthless, enjoy being called weak, some people enjoy being overpowered and being defeated and being called bad or naughty.
These are ‘kinks’ some people develop just out of preference or due to trauma. And with what Luna went through, she would easily be the poster child for the latter.
Whether you label her reasons for doing so pleasure or justice is a distinction with no difference. She didn’t start reverting into Nightmare Moon when the Tantabus abandoned her, in the end the Tantabus was simply created to fulfill a personal need, an emotional experience she personally desired. Non-masochistic self harm is not used to relax oneself, which she used the Tantabus for.
For the longest time, she got gratification and relief from experiencing a degrading experience to her psyche, and thus created a construct to help her experience that gratification every single night. It was certainly not sexual in nature, but it was very telling of what her mindset got gratification from at the time. So in a broad sense, she technically was masochistic.
So who else think Luna was lying about Celestia being unable to help? Took the whole ep for Luny to own up to the real nature of the Tantabus, she easily could to have been trying to hide the whole thing from her sister too.
@SuperDEF: I brought up The Journal of the Two Sisters as counterpoint to anyone that says that “If it didn’t happen in the show, it’s not canon.” Given what that book in particular says, or its purpose in some way, I would actually be surprised if it wasn’t canon in any way. Same goes for other chapter books such as Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Heart Spell (which gives some backstory on Cadence), or Pinkie Pie and the Rockin’ Ponypalooza Party (which does reference Maud while not dropping any names). Both of which were written before Season 4 even aired. As for whether the comics expanded on the Princesses, that did happen. Maybe not insight to their past in some case, but their character was expounded upon. As a matter of fact, the 2nd comic story arc is the first we hear of Luna feeling remorse for what happened during Nightmare Moon’s first appearance 1000 years prior to the start of the series.
@Ihhh: That link only talks about what’s primary in regarding what’s canon and what’s not, and doesn’t show me specific examples in regards to the comics contradicting the show in some way as described in the third bullet. I’m talking about something like Chrysalis being born from a magic plant and pony corpses while the show says something different about her backstory. (Which the show didn’t BTW.) I, for the life of me, can’t find anything like that within the comics. Considering that, I would find it a safe bet that the show, the chapter books, and the comics are all written around one another to at least some extent.
@Background Pony #DFF6
Regarding the “Journal of the Royal Sisters”, I was under the impression that the journal was suppose to give Celestia and Luna a lore and a much better insightful backstory about who they are, how they earn their cutie marks (they had a group of Unicorns raising and setting the sun and moon before them), what they learned, and pretty much what livelihood was like during the Old Times over a thousand years ago before Discord came in existence.
The show itself gave little information about their past. Not sure about the comics, maybe a little more or less, depends on the story.
@Ihhh: The show contradicted itself too at some point or another, don’t forget. And what instance in the comics are outright contradicted by the show itself? The only instance in that regard that I can think of is a minor instance with misinterpretation in the 2-part arc focused around Shining Armor. Same goes for the chapter books. And there was one chapter book that was written by someone on the show staff: The Journal of the Two Sisters.
As for NMM returning for a 3rd time, I don’t see why it wouldn’t happen at some point in the future. But given how things are set up at this point, only the comics would seem to tackle subjects the show might not. I guess it would all depend on whether or not there would be some poor unfortunate soul for NMM to take advantage of. Though I will admit, there does seem to be some connection with their powers, seeing as Luna was weakened when NMM made her return after being exorcised from Luna’s body. Don’t know how that would affect Luna upon returning another time, though.
Unfortunately, there’s no outright reformation by the primary villain involved with what I described about the comic arc in question. However, we do find out that Luna does want to answer for what NMM did, even if it was just indirect involvement. And we also find out that Rarity does have self-esteem issues. In fact, it’s those self-esteem issues that made NMM want her for a vessel in the first place.
@Background Pony #DFF6
the comics are contradicted by the show all the time, and they are made by different people than the show, while the movies are not. the writers have stated that they are b-canon, meaning that show canon takes precedence over comic canon, and i would assume the books are same. As for nightmare moon returning without luna, that may have happened in the comics, but we don’t know if it can happen in the show. also, that synopsis kinda sounds like the plot to past sins.
@Ihhh: It happened in the official comics’ second story arc. Where Rarity is kidnapped by NMM’s remaining henchmen to turn her into NMM’s vessel.
And before anyone even implies that whether some events have to happen on the show in order to matter, I would like to point out that such an implication would be like saying that the EQG films or the chapter books didn’t happen because the show didn’t cover their events. Never-mind the fact that at least one of the chapter books is directly referenced in the show in the form of Maud Pie.
@Ihhh
Then don’t. The definition of the word is not up for debate. Try educating yourself instead. And don’t presume to command me. You have no authority.
@Background Pony Number 17
Emotional masochism and physical masochism are different things, but both feed on variations of the same notion: that the masochist feels the need or intense desire to suffer. I think physical masochists do it because they were raised in a spoiled life and it makes them feel detached from reality, and the emotional ones do it because they can’t stop blaming themselves for something.
@Amethyst_Crystal
Many are screwed up inside and feel like they won’t know true happiness. It’s nothing to be ashamed off and is just the human condition for some.
I feel a lot arguments in the comment section kind of got a tangent that missed a lot of obvious points. Is Luna a masochist?
Well….in a way. However you describe it, pleasure or guilt driven justice, at the end of the day she was using the tantabus to put herself through a debilitating sort of nightmare where she is punished for her wrong doing….and the act, while certainly unhealthy, was actual a relief to her mental state. And in its absence, despair. Until she was literally forced to change her mindset about her trauma.
She was using the tantabus, not to inflict self harm and spiral into more misery (she was using it for way too long without any worsening mental state), but to pep her up for the coming day. She was getting gratification out of it. It was a need that she wanted fulfilled to pep herself up for day.
Whether it was sexual in nature or not is irrelevant. The fact remains her method she chose to deal to function normally during the waking hours, and instead of going to a therapist, she came up with this messed up method of happily being defeated.
Another tangent was too much talk of endorphins. Well, there are plenty of masochists that don’t take pleasure from physical pain. Some people take pleasure and relief in emotional degradation. Some people enjoy being called worthless, enjoy being called weak, some people enjoy being overpowered and being defeated and being called bad or naughty.
These are ‘kinks’ some people develop just out of preference or due to trauma. And with what Luna went through, she would easily be the poster child for the latter.
Whether you label her reasons for doing so pleasure or justice is a distinction with no difference. She didn’t start reverting into Nightmare Moon when the Tantabus abandoned her, in the end the Tantabus was simply created to fulfill a personal need, an emotional experience she personally desired. Non-masochistic self harm is not used to relax oneself, which she used the Tantabus for.
For the longest time, she got gratification and relief from experiencing a degrading experience to her psyche, and thus created a construct to help her experience that gratification every single night. It was certainly not sexual in nature, but it was very telling of what her mindset got gratification from at the time. So in a broad sense, she technically was masochistic.
![](/images/tagblocked-7b05ae50e1f6b0f784fc7d2200ce2bd8.svg?vsn=d)
your current filter.@Ihhh: That link only talks about what’s primary in regarding what’s canon and what’s not, and doesn’t show me specific examples in regards to the comics contradicting the show in some way as described in the third bullet. I’m talking about something like Chrysalis being born from a magic plant and pony corpses while the show says something different about her backstory. (Which the show didn’t BTW.) I, for the life of me, can’t find anything like that within the comics. Considering that, I would find it a safe bet that the show, the chapter books, and the comics are all written around one another to at least some extent.
http://www.equestriadaily.com/2015/02/clarification-on-mlp-comics-vs-show.html
i don’t see the comics as canon myself, you do, that fine, but don’t assume either to be true.
Regarding the “Journal of the Royal Sisters”, I was under the impression that the journal was suppose to give Celestia and Luna a lore and a much better insightful backstory about who they are, how they earn their cutie marks (they had a group of Unicorns raising and setting the sun and moon before them), what they learned, and pretty much what livelihood was like during the Old Times over a thousand years ago before Discord came in existence.
The show itself gave little information about their past. Not sure about the comics, maybe a little more or less, depends on the story.
As for NMM returning for a 3rd time, I don’t see why it wouldn’t happen at some point in the future. But given how things are set up at this point, only the comics would seem to tackle subjects the show might not. I guess it would all depend on whether or not there would be some poor unfortunate soul for NMM to take advantage of. Though I will admit, there does seem to be some connection with their powers, seeing as Luna was weakened when NMM made her return after being exorcised from Luna’s body. Don’t know how that would affect Luna upon returning another time, though.
Unfortunately, there’s no outright reformation by the primary villain involved with what I described about the comic arc in question. However, we do find out that Luna does want to answer for what NMM did, even if it was just indirect involvement. And we also find out that Rarity does have self-esteem issues. In fact, it’s those self-esteem issues that made NMM want her for a vessel in the first place.
the comics are contradicted by the show all the time, and they are made by different people than the show, while the movies are not. the writers have stated that they are b-canon, meaning that show canon takes precedence over comic canon, and i would assume the books are same. As for nightmare moon returning without luna, that may have happened in the comics, but we don’t know if it can happen in the show. also, that synopsis kinda sounds like the plot to past sins.
And before anyone even implies that whether some events have to happen on the show in order to matter, I would like to point out that such an implication would be like saying that the EQG films or the chapter books didn’t happen because the show didn’t cover their events. Never-mind the fact that at least one of the chapter books is directly referenced in the show in the form of Maud Pie.
Lies! There’s no such thing!
Then don’t. The definition of the word is not up for debate. Try educating yourself instead. And don’t presume to command me. You have no authority.
I don’t want to start another debate. Don’t reply to this comment.
Please refer to my post. Masochism is a rather broad term. Like ‘back’.
When the hell did that happen in the show?
Make sure you bother reading the comments before lecturing others.
It just sounded cooler that way. :/
Emotional masochism and physical masochism are different things, but both feed on variations of the same notion: that the masochist feels the need or intense desire to suffer. I think physical masochists do it because they were raised in a spoiled life and it makes them feel detached from reality, and the emotional ones do it because they can’t stop blaming themselves for something.
sigh
Okay, so.
I’m not making any statement about whether anyone is bad or good depending on their emotional and psychological situations.
I am saying that what Luna has is a serious self-harm problem though.
That’s all.
Many are screwed up inside and feel like they won’t know true happiness. It’s nothing to be ashamed off and is just the human condition for some.