[Closed] /pol/ Thread Simulator - 2016 Edition

@Cirrus Light
 
Sometimes it is necessary, when all other diplomatic channels are exhausted; i think of revolutions as some sort of last resort for when things are bad and the government is either making things worse or won’t listen to such concerns; which is why i think that the student movement in my university should either tone their rhetoric down or start going for their weapons: their predictions of a different government are completely apocalyptic and yet they won’t do anything more than just do weak protest that no politican will take seriously. desperate times call for desperate measures: if that’s all they’re doing to fight, it, then things can’t be as bad as they claim.

@Mildgyth  
I agree, but I caution this one bit of advice; would this ultimately save more lives than it would cost? That can be the only true justification for any lethal violence instigated.
 
Though it’s worth noting that someone need not die for a life to be lost. So it gets messy, involved, complicated, but at the end of the day you have to remember what you’re getting into. You have to remember how horrible and atrocious war is; that young men who otherwise may have been friends, will fight eachother to the death. To put this close to home for a hardcore brony, is what you’re doing worth making reality a place where Applejack murders Rainbow Dash? Is the cause truly that important? When you face the broken body of your best friend, your brother, or even your own mother - the corpses of those you love - will your cause have been so great that you can truly say “it was worth it”?
 
If so, then proceed at your own peril. It is not merely your own life you risk, but the lives of those you love, and inevitably, it will be the lives of many loved ones, of many people. Everyone is a person, who is just as lovable as the person you love most, when known in the right way. And many of them will be denied such knowledge, and hell will come on earth. Will your cause be worth it? Are you ready to deepen your understanding of what suffering and pain really are, and explore horrendous depths you cannot now comprehend, for the name of your cause?
 
There is some time for revolution, certainly. But don’t foolishly underestimate when that time comes, nor the depth of what has been asked for.

@Cirrus Light  
This again? Look man, I’ve said before that you’re definition of marriage is all good and well but we live in America and America is supposed to be a secular nation where laws are not supposed to be ripped straight from a book of fairy tales. You wanna live by God’s Law? Convert to Islam and immigrat to Saudi Arabia.

@neutralgrey  
As for the “Book of fairy tales”, that is an incredibly ignorant statement of someone who either knows nothing about religion or is willingly spreading lies or is willingly self-delusional and has chosen to forget the complexities of it. If you’d like a reminder, there’s an entire thread for it. People far smarter and far wiser than yourself have believed far more. Unless you think you’re better than all of the greatest thinkers to ever live, I suggest you at least be respectful with the same respect that others afford you.
 
As for the “secular nation”, America is a land founded on principles of religious freedom and representative government. That means we do not force people to believe a certain way, or even encourage them to believe any particular religion by law, but that doesn’t mean that the people can’t derive their moral beliefs from their beliefs, and then, by representative government, pass laws based on their moral beliefs.
 
I want to live under a system of laws that I believe is moral. That is the sovereign right of every American citizen - to have some say and influence in what those laws are.
 
I don’t want to live under laws where women get half inheritance, their testimonies count less than men’s, and nuances of “confession” and “adultery” laws mean that they can be executed if they try to report a rape.

@neutralgrey  
If we are a secular nation then why even have a religious ceremony in our laws at all?

@Background Pony #4641  
More importantly, what is meant by a “secular nation”?
 
If “no official state religion” means that, then yes.
 
If “nothing about it can ever be influenced or have anything to do with religion”, then that’s impossible and would be terribly oppressive to anyone other than atheists, if you don’t consider atheism a religion, which by some definitions, it is.
 
It would also fundamentally violate the respect and tolerance in the American principles of allowing people to live by their own beliefs and not forcing your beliefs on them, since it would force atheism on everyone by scrubbing religion from all public spaces.

@Cirrus Light
 
And also considering that some atheists treat their atheism almost as a religion…

@Mildgyth  
…And proceed to go on a self-righteous and zealous crusade to cleanse all other “unholy” religions from the country and all public spaces, yes… Unfortunately the U.S. has listened to those evangelical atheist crusaders far too much, and seems to be forgetting that religious freedom means tolerating different peoples’ beliefs, even in public spaces.

I’m not trying to ask a dumb question, but if I wanted to ask what marriage is, what would be the best forum/thread to do it in?
 
Is it a societal construct? A religious thing? A legal term? One of those traditions that humans still have?

@Cirrus Light  
First off, lemme just say that I believe in a god but I also believe that anyone who claims to know what his “laws” are is full of shit. I believe that God gave us reason and not religion.
 
As for your other claims let me say this. There was a time in America where it was illegal for a black man to marry a white woman, now thankfully this was ruled unconstitutional in 1967, but you know what the justification the bigots gave? “IT’S MUH RELIGON!!! GAWD AND JEEZUS SED SO!!!” And they had a point, in the bible it mentions there is to be no marriage between tribes, the KKK loves to bring that fact up. And there’s backing up in the bible for an anti-gay position as well, but you know what else you can’t do in the bible? You can’t eat shellfish, you can’t wear a mix of two fabrics, you can’t shave, women aren’t allowed to speak in church, and if your wife is on her period she’s not allowed in your home. But I digress, lemme just point out how what you believe is moral may not be so to other people.
 
@Cirrus Light  
“Unfortunately the U.S. has listened to those evangelical atheist crusaders”
 
Uh…no, they haven’t. Atheists are fucking shunned in this country, in some states atheists aren’t allowed to run for office. The majority of people in this country are religious, mainly they identify as Christians. So take your Alex Jones talking point and put them where they belong, in the trash.

@Tragiclady  
This thread would probably be good enough I suppose.
 
And it’s sorta all three of those things, for most of human history single-pair bonding was fairly rare until religion got into the mix and made it more widespread, then it was codified into (religious) law and since the church kinda got really spread out everyone sorta adopted the law and then it just eventually became a traditional thing that nearly all countries have but it is sometimes the domain of the state and sometimes the domain of the church and occasionally the domain of nobody, that’s the best I can explain it at least. :I

@Tragiclady  
Strictly and most unarguably, a tradition.
 
But beyond that, some say it’s nothing more than a societal construct. Others, such as myself, believe it to be a sacred thing instituted by God.
 
Whomever you ask, though, if they’re being honest and fair, the best unquestionable definition is “it’s a tradition”.
 
Beyond my personal beliefs, I’d also add that it’s a tradition warranted greater validity due to how it fits with human nature. Humans want companionship, particularly of one they love. Marriage is a natural result, thus the “tradition” continues, and can be a great source of happiness to those who do it right (not making some crack here about gay marriage - I mean “right” as in they’re loving, respectful, best friends in addition to romantic partners, all of that. To those people it is the most rewarding).

@neutralgrey  
Why is marriage even still a legal thing at this point? We should have just done away with it when we separated church and state.

@Background Pony #4641  
I appreciate the explanation :D
 
If I ever got really serious with someone, or ended up having kids with someone, I’d probably marry the person because that’s what I’ve seen other people do, and I wouldn’t want to hurt my partners feelings.
 
I’d still have to have a long conversation with that person about what it means to them.
 
@Cirrus Light  
Thank you for your explanation as well. If I asked my folks why they got married, it would probably be some variation of “tradition”. Seeing your definition reminded me of why its important to ask :3

@Background Pony #4641  
Because it’s now not exclusive to people who are religious, atheists can also get married and have a secular wedding.
 
@Background Pony #4641  
As for this question, could you specify what ceremony? Also it should be worth noting that the idea of a secular government is fading since we now have a bunch of religious nuts like Ted Cruz holding positions of power within our government.

@neutralgrey  
It shouldn’t have the capacity for exclusivity, the fact that the government is the grand arbiter of who you can and can’t marry is sickening to me.
 
And I was talking about marriage obviously, if you were to take away all the government nonsense than you would be left with a purely religious or spiritual ceremony.

@neutralgrey  
Actually, those things are in the mosaic law, which was “fulfilled” in Jesus, and no longer to be enforced, so much like your own objections, their objections were based on a lack of understanding of the scripture. Furthermore, those laws were particularly prescribed to those people at that time, not to humankind forever in general. The bible isn’t the human race’s guidebook, it’s a record of prophesies and religious events among the ancient Jews, and a testament of Christ - at least the old testament, the object of interest, here. Since mainstream Christianity does not believe in more modern revelations, they’re stuck with trying to extrapolate this, which is unfortunate and the cause of much contention and divisiveness.
 
Fair enough on your beliefs, though, but I think God has given us a bit of a lifeline - giving us lifelines all the time, whether we recognize them or not - and in particular, one with hints of truth that can help us if we listen. But that’s for each person to discover, and they must listen, ask and search to hear and find.
 
As for your message in general, it’s a good thing people wisened up and became more tolerant, but the problem isn’t democracy, and I doubt you meant to insinuate that, yet what you presented is an unavoidable result of representative government: the people will vote their beliefs. Others will disagree, no duh, but you can only hope the majority will be right - or, from your own view, that they will agree with you. I’m sorry this seems to trouble you.
 
As for atheism, movies and tv scarcely paint religion in a positive light, prayers aren’t allowed in schools, they don’t even say the freaking pledge anymore because it says “under God”, and public nativity scenes had their drama war. If atheists are hated, they got it in a crusade that has earned the ire of the people in general. Using law to keep the school choir from singing their favorite and traditional, beautiful Christmas hymn because it mentions God will earn their ire. This and nativity scenes are just the tip of an enormous iceberg of evangelical atheists trying to shut people up and making enemies.

@Background Pony #4641  
Agreed on the first point.
 
As for the second point I also agree and say that there are plenty of good things about religion, like taking care of the sick, the poor, the downtrodden all that good stuff I’m just against the shit that says you can’t worship other gods, you can’t wear this, you can’t eat that, you know stuff like that.

@neutralgrey  
Well I was talking about marriage specifically and not the other parts to religion.
 
@Cirrus Light  
I wonder why God even had to make a second set of laws in the first place honestly…

“Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.”-A Great Man(Karl Marx)

@Commune  
Strange, that quote could also almost perfectly describe communism…

@Background Pony #4641  
But Communism is the Weed of the People  
Cause it dank

@Commune  
Can we just go back to talking about Star vs The Forces of Evil and some Indomie?

@NotYourAverageLurker  
You know what thread we are in Bucko  
The Drama threa

@Commune  
I thought it was the shitposting thread?