"goth" vs. "gothic"

Tagging Discussion » "goth" vs. "gothic" Search Posts
Background Pony #6C12
Note: “goth” vs. others like “emo”, “punk”, “metal” isn’t in the scope of what I’m posting about in this thread.
goth (3878), a subculture, also attitude or fashion/appearance in varying degrees.
gothic (706), pertains to several historical things - ancient cultures, architecture, fine art. Modern “goth” is sometimes also called this. I get the sense that people also sometimes use it for more elegant variations of dark-and-moody fashion, but I don’t have any source to back that up.
In use as tags, there’s a lot of overlap. Could we figure out a guideline for when one or the other (or both) should be tagged?
Select samples:
>>2884820, >>2751934 probably should be “goth” instead of “gothic”
>>2353225 probably both “goth” and “gothic”
>>2340603 I’m not sure whether both, or just “gothic”
>>2264824, >>2681174 probably just “gothic”
Then, also, there are tags that include these terms.
  • gothic lolita (225), a subtype of lolita fashion (505) - but does it need to stay its own tag, or is tagging one of “goth” or “gothic” along with “lolita fashion” better? For reference, Wikipedia redirects “gothic lolita” to “lolita fashion”.
  • gothic fashion (3) alias-> goth IMO has been done
  • goth pony (96) seems unnecessary to me, in either of two ways I could interpret it:
    • you want to find goth ponies only? goth griffons need not apply? or
    • a super-tag for ponies whose default design is goth: Inky Rose, Snow Hope, Moonlight Raven, Funnel Web, a few people might include Gloomy Sonnet.
    • I think this might have initially been a tag used to identify Moonlight Raven before they were given a name.
  • gothic eyeliner (17) 16 of the 17 uses were tagged by one user.
  • goth girl (2) pointless? has been aliased to “goth”
  • goth girls (2) has been aliased to “goth”, goth trio (2) both tags used for the trio of Fluttergoth, Inky Rose, and Moonlight Raven. Pointless?
  • goth unicorn (2) actually not pointless, as long as it’s specific to screenshots of the Gameloft game calling Moonlight Raven “Goth Unicorn”
In combination with characters:
Should they get consolidated into one phrasing or another?
Character “goth” “gothic”
Applejack gothjack (1) x
Cozy Glow cozy goth (1) x
Discord gothcord (5) x
Fizzle x gothic fizzle (2)
Flutterbat goth flutterbat (1) <-> gothbat (1) x
Fluttershy fluttergoth (1358) a specific design from the show; goth fluttershy (0) gothic fluttershy (17)
Butterscotch buttergoth (2) x
Starlight Glimmer glimmer goth (37) (almost complete overlap with edgelight glimmer (200) which itself has inconsistent tagging vs. teenage glimmer (86)) x
Izzy Moonbow goth izzy (263) x
Marble Pie goth marble pie (1) x
Maud Pie goth maud (1) x
Octavia gothtavia (1) x
Pinkie Pie goth pinkie (4) gothic pinkie (107)
Princess Celestia “gothlestia” is aliased to “punklestia” gothic princess celestia (1)
Radiant Hope radiant goth (1) x
Rainbow Dash rainbow goth (11) gothic rainbow dash (5)
Rarity gothity (28) gothic rarity (6)
Shining Armor shining goth (1) x
Sonata Dusk x gothic sonata (1)
Sunny Starscout goth sunny starscout (2) x
Sweetie Belle sweetie goth (2) x
Twilight Sparkle goth twilight (0); ask-gothtwi is a specific design from an ask blog gothic twilight (11)
Yona goth yona (2) x
Dragonpone
Unamused - Derpi Supporter
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Flower Trio - Helped others get their OC into the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Elements of Harmony -
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Philomena - For helping others attend the 2021 community collab

Moderator
Badge Dragon
Splitting up replies for easier organization:
Note: “goth” vs. others like “emo”, “punk”, “metal” isn’t in the scope of what I’m posting about in this thread.
goth (2697), a subculture, also attitude or fashion/appearance in varying degrees.
gothic (534), pertains to several historical things - ancient cultures, architecture, fine art. Modern “goth” is sometimes also called this. I get the sense that people also sometimes use it for more elegant variations of dark-and-moody fashion, but I don’t have any source to back that up.
In use as tags, there’s a lot of overlap. Could we figure out a guideline for when one or the other (or both) should be tagged?
Select samples:
>>2884820, >>2751934 probably should be “goth” instead of “gothic”
>>2353225 probably both “goth” and “gothic”
>>2340603 I’m not sure whether both, or just “gothic”
>>2264824, >>2681174 probably just “gothic”
I agree it would make more sense to have a dividing line between “goth” and “gothic”, especially when the latter tag is often used as this:
I get the sense that people also sometimes use it for more elegant variations of dark-and-moody fashion
Mind, because of that use I wouldn’t be surprised if 90% of its use cases are just goth, and that’s what many people use the tag for. For this in particular I’d like to wait for a little bit in case others have an opinion on which way is preferred. If not, I’ll clean up the tags to the best of my ability. If you have any preferred description for either tag I could add it as well.
Dragonpone
Unamused - Derpi Supporter
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Flower Trio - Helped others get their OC into the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Elements of Harmony -
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Philomena - For helping others attend the 2021 community collab

Moderator
Badge Dragon
Then, also, there are tags that include these terms.
I wouldn’t mind keeping both tags around and adding the implication.
Agree.
  • goth pony (77) seems unnecessary to me, in either of two ways I could interpret it:
    • you want to find goth ponies only? goth griffons need not apply? or
    • a super-tag for ponies whose default design is goth: Inky Rose, Snow Hope, Moonlight Raven, Funnel Web, a few people might include Gloomy Sonnet.
    • I think this might have initially been a tag used to identify Moonlight Raven before they were given a name.
Using the 2nd interpretation is the best way I see of justifying the tags purpose, were it to be cleaned up, I wouldn’t mind it’s continued existence.
Yeah, probably just alias into eyeliner.
  • goth girl (2) pointless?
  • goth girls (2), goth trio (2) both tags used for the trio of Fluttergoth, Inky Rose, and Moonlight Raven. Pointless?
Probably alias into goth.
  • goth unicorn (2) actually not pointless, as long as it’s specific to screenshots of the Gameloft game calling Moonlight Raven “Goth Unicorn”
I suppose.
Background Pony #6C12
For this in particular I’d like to wait for a little bit in case others have an opinion on which way is preferred. If not, I’ll clean up the tags to the best of my ability. If you have any preferred description for either tag I could add it as well.
Same, I’d hope for more feedback; I’m no fashion or subculture expert, I just noticed at least partially the same meaning being divided between separate tags, making it harder to follow.
Dragonpone
Unamused - Derpi Supporter
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Flower Trio - Helped others get their OC into the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Elements of Harmony -
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Philomena - For helping others attend the 2021 community collab

Moderator
Badge Dragon
In combination with characters:
Should they get consolidated into one phrasing or another?
Character “goth” “gothic”
Applejack gothjack (1) x
Cozy Glow cozy goth (1) x
Discord gothcord (1) x
Fizzle x gothic fizzle (2)
Flutterbat goth flutterbat (1) <-> gothbat (1) x
Fluttershy fluttergoth (1013) a specific design from the show; goth fluttershy (1) gothic fluttershy (15)
Butterscotch buttergoth (1) x
Starlight Glimmer glimmer goth (34) (almost complete overlap with edgelight glimmer (168) which itself has inconsistent tagging vs. teenage glimmer (81)) x
Izzy Moonbow goth izzy (68) x
Marble Pie goth marble pie (1) x
Maud Pie goth maud (1) x
Octavia gothtavia (1) x
Pinkie Pie goth pinkie (1) gothic pinkie (90)
Princess Celestia “gothlestia” is aliased to “punklestia” gothic princess celestia (1)
Radiant Hope radiant goth (1) x
Rainbow Dash rainbow goth (9) gothic rainbow dash (1)
Rarity gothity (26) gothic rarity (3)
Shining Armor shining goth (1) x
Sonata Dusk x gothic sonata (1)
Sunny Starscout goth sunny starscout (2) x
Sweetie Belle sweetie goth (2) x
Twilight Sparkle goth twilight (1); ask-gothtwi is a specific design from an ask blog gothic twilight (9)
Yona goth yona (2) x
I wanna say most of these don’t really need to be tags, but at the same time, goth izzy just became a big thing, and I already gave implications to that…
In general, gothic -> goth
Specific designs can maybe imply general “goth X” tags.
More specifically:
Gothic pinkie cleaned up and merged with pinkie pie’s boutique, since it’s supposed to be a specific design. Goth pinkie can exist for other stuff.
Maybe Goth/Punklestia should be split? There is a specific goth Celestia design in any case.
Background Pony #6C12
I wanna say most of these don’t really need to be tags, but at the same time, goth izzy just became a big thing, and I already gave implications to that…
Yea, that’s why I thought it was time to make this thread. ^^;
Maybe Goth/Punklestia should be split? There is a specific goth Celestia design in any case.
Well, that’s what “punklestia” is for. I think it was aliased because people wouldn’t consistently use one or the other. emolestia is another tag for the same thing. (I didn’t want the thread to be about gatekeeping “what is goth”/“what is punk”/“what is emo”, though.)
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