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barefoot Appledash :3
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@Thrond
Aye, that’s the problem. I look for entertainment in fics too, sure, but if the characterization isn’t there, if I don’t believe in what I’m seeing, if the ship doesn’t feel believable… it won’t be entertaining at all.
But then, it’s as you said. We won’t convince each other.
I don’t really see these values you’re talking about beyond very, very broad things. All I know is that I see Rarity and Applejack as only being able to tolerate each other in small doses, while I see RD and AJ as getting along far more, and being able to relate to each other way, way more. I’ll take something others find boring over something I don’t find believable any day.
For one on fan fiction, yes you are right there remains a large overall AppleDash lead but again that is mostly because of the lead overall it had in the PAST, again in the last 2 years the upload rate of Rarijack and AppleDash fics have been about the same, before that AppleDash greatly outpaced Rarijack you can’t just look at overall numbers because these things change over time . Currently TwiDash (Which I have to mention got popular off literally nothing) and FlutterDash outpace them both by a lot. If the AppleDash and Rarijack groups had been reset around the start of 2014 they would currently have very similar numbers THAT is what I mean by trends, a change compared to what was before. I don’t Deny that TwiDash has basically been consistently the most popular ship fic wise since 2012, that’s indisputable, it gets fic and it gets more views than AppleDash, FlutterDash or Rarijack. But again that’s largely a symptom of character popularity. If you cleared the slate now within a year again you’d have AppleDash and Rarijack about equal, FlutterDash above them to an extent and TwiDash well above all of them. And everything else basically irrelevant.
Sad to say but that is what determines ship popularity to a large degree, that’s why no one other than Twilight has popular ships OUTSIDE of the Mane 6 and Spike while Twilight has Twixie, Sunlight, TwiLestia, TwiLuna and more. Why a Mane 6 ship like TwiShy which really has no more support than say AppleShy will have like 3 or 4 times the amount of fic the one involving a less popular character will have. And in both the cases of AppleDash and Rarijack, it’s largely the popularity of Rainbow Dash and Rarity driving the ship. It sucks but that’s the way it is.
For another smaller example look at the Japanese portion of the fandom art wise. Currently out west Id say Rarijacks lead over AppleDash in art is actually pretty small but in Japan it’s absolutely massive, you wanna know why? It’s because in Japan Rarity and Applejack are the two most popular characters. Id actually say that if you searched Rarijack right now a good 4 or 5 images on the first page would be of Japanese origin while maybe 1 for AppleDash would be. So I just need to point out to a large degree all the crap we are debating is irrelevant basically next to the ebs and flows of character popularity (for more evidence here you want to know what Rarijacks rise in popularity runs co-current with? That’s right the rise in popularity of Rarity in general that came with Season 4! Conversely Rainbow Dash is not quite as popular as she once was, while Applejack has stayed about the same!
Im tired so this might be shorter than it should be. So here’s the ultimate difference between us, you guys are obsessed with “believability” “is it realistic” crap that is utterly irrelevant when it comes to fiction. No what matters when it comes to fiction is “is it entertaining” “is it compelling” “do the two characters have dynamic and chemestry” And I don’t see a single one of those for AppleDash. But I will say I certainly don’t see them as remotely similar personalities, Applejack, Rarity, Rainbow they all have vastly different personalities but they are all courageous for one. But I certainly don’t think Rainbow values Honestly more than Rarity does, she is often more honest but that doesn’t come from a place of value as much as it does from a place of not thinking before she speaks. Both of them are perfectly willing to lie when they realize it suits them. but I hold values as being more important than interest. And again I hear all this “They have so much in common they would work so well!” from you guys but you can’t prove that because they don’t talk.
You see “familiar (and by the way I think TwiDash and Rarijack are much more Romcom Sitcom than AppleDash is) and I see “boring and uninteresting” and you call our reasons shallow while we see YOURS the same way. On a fundamental level we approach this stuff from a completely different perspective and completely different ideas on what makes a good ship and I Doubt we’ll ever convince each other otherwise. Though ultimately for most who aren’t heavy old guard shippers none of this shit matters.
I’d actually argue that Dash shows a fair bit of irritation towards Pinkie. Rolling her eyes and grimacing at her antics, especially when it’s just the two of them (walking to griffinstone for example).
And yes, that’s a shorter version of what I was trying to say! Though I think Rarity and AJ do more than tolerate each other. They’re definitely friends, but that is in spite of their differences. As a couple, though, those differences would have a much greater focus, and the clashes they would bring would be near endless.
TL;DR: They make great friends, but would make for a terrible long term romance. Short term, or a fling? Possibly. Long term? Never. Would lead to a murder. :P
Others have articulated better why AppleDash works better, but you have to realize that much of the conflict between AJ and Dash has been relatively light-hearted, and they’re not wholly at odds with each other as AJ and Rarity are. While the two have bickered, it’s been over silly things that they’re usually able to get over, and that’s reflected in the decrease in drama between them.
AJ and Rarity, however, have zero patience in each others’ lifestyles. Their overlap in personality traits is largely superficial. Even five seasons in, they show a deep level of irritation for each other that no other main six pairing really shows. There is very little understanding or common ground between the two.
Applejack and Rainbow, meanwhile, share not only their rough personalities and competitive spirits, but a general enjoyment of each other’s presence which doesn’t have the same reservations of Applejack and Rarity. They’re often shown to have a synergy-better explained below-which translates well to writing them as a couple. Most importantly, though, they don’t seem to just barely tolerate each other, and that’s the key thing. Enjoy whichever ship it is you prefer, however.
The reason it got popular is the “It’s a rarity” line. It had a small following before that, and exploded afterwards with people latching on to a single line, which is pretty sad if that’s all it took for people to ship them. It’s incredibly shallow. RariJack Daily just made it that much more visible on derpibooru, gaining more attention than before.
Ficwise, rarijack really has not seen a substantial increase in fics at all. It’s still at around 240ish, while AppleDash is at 580, and TwiDash is still far ahead at 840. TwiDash has always been the most popular ship, and honestly still is a contender, art-wise. The recent RariJack surge has chipped away at that, though. And no - the reason for the still low amount of fic is that it’s damn near impossible to make a ship with the two appear believable - not without a long, massive change to their situations or characters, which would take far more effort than most writers seem to have. As it stands, they’re sooner likely to kill each other if they were together for an extended period of time.
I won’t argue that there’s been less appledash fics - but that’s only because of the lack of real focus in the show, due to them not needing constant drama and conflict - which, as I said before, is the ‘entertainment’ factor of the show.
This is AJ’s look every time she deals with Rarity’s exaggeration and drama - which is an integral part of Rarity’s life. No one can show the same level of contempt for Rarity’s shit as AJ can.
As for understanding each other… what you listed for RariJack’s “values” being good for a ship? ‘hard working’ and ‘being an entrepreneur’? That’s entirely superficial. All six of them are hard working, and all are heading to their individual goals - they’re just taking different paths. If you want similarity in goals, actually, you’d see more between Rarity and Dash. AJ has what she wants, work wise, and simply works to keep it like that. Similar to, say, Fluttershy.
AJ and Dash, on the other hand, are more similar personality wise, while not being clones.
They both value courage, physical prowess, honesty, and straightforward solutions. They call it like they see it. Their approach to solving most problems will be the same, or at least totally understandable to the other, building a deep mutual respect between them. But at the same time, Applejack is an earth pony’s earth pony, tied to her land, focused on family and community. She’s a nurturer at heart, and steeped in responsibility and personal honor. Dash, on the other hand, is the model of pegasi ideals; she’s ambitious and focused on individual excellence, with a taste for grand adventure. She’s also a dreamer who easily gets wrapped up in any amusement or novelty that strikes her fancy.
This means that as a couple they can have a strong core built on values they share and an understanding of the other and how she thinks. Applejack might not want the adventure of being a Wonderbolt herself, but the goal fits in with the deeper values she holds so it would seem undeniably worthy to her. Similarly, Dash might never want to be a farmer herself, but it’s simple and straightforward enough that she can understand the reasons AJ would want to do it.
RariJack doesn’t have that. “OMG THEY BOTH HAVE SISTERS! OMG THEY’RE BOTH HARD WORKERS!” is an oft touted argument, and that’s not enough to build a relationship on. A healthy, stable relationship needs more similarities (and yes, I know there are working opposite attract relationships, but they’re exceptions to rules. RariJack is not one of them).
Applejack and Rainbow Dash make a stable-but-messy couple who can take what life throws and come back for more. AJ and Dash are a couple you’d want to invite to a barbeque, because they seem fun and relaxed and might butt heads in a snarky way, but not end up flipping tables at each other.
So, AJ and Rainbow Dash are a couple that finds themselves in minor conflict again and again, but will undoubtedly return to a core understanding to patch things up before moving on to the next petty squabble. They’re the least likely to show a “romantic” side in the traditional sense, and most writers have to content themselves with a kiss and some private cuddles in the apple orchard or barn to show the loving side of the couple. That’s cool and all, but we’re talking about romance. How is that romantic?
AppleDash is really the ultimate sitcom-style couple. Like any couple on a long running TV show, they have their frequent ups and downs, but they settle easily into a loving relationship. They’re a great comedy duo, and a couple you want to watch having conversations and arguments about little things, reacting to each other with a mixture of love, friendship, and teasing.
AJ can easily fall into the role of stoic, dry-witted, long-suffering anchor for Dash’s antics, and Dash is the best character on the show at both going over-the-top and then realizing that she went over the top and coming back, slightly embarrassed, for some cuddles and reassurance that their love will always be there anyway. Or you can play AJ’s love of tradition and more country mannerisms off of Dash’s more urban coolness and modern attitudes. In any case, teasing will be a major part of any dynamic; both characters are thick skinned, understand each other enough to both dish it out and take it without really hurting each other, and flawed enough for the audience to enjoy a joke at either’s expense.
I think this might be one of the reasons for AppleDash’s continued popularity: it’s a very comfortable ship both to read and write. Most of the serious AppleDash fics are tempered with humor, and you probably already know how the character’s interactions will play out. In the same way it’s always nice to catch an old episode of a sitcom you like, picking up (or writing) an AppleDash fic is unlikely to be a new and exciting experience, it’s more likely to be checking in with old friends and remembering how well this works.
No it’s one of the reasons why it finally broke into the top tier, it was ALWAYS the only kind of popular Mane 6 ship not involving Twilight or Dash, Like even when it was basically a mid-lower high tier ship it had like 3 or 4 times the content of every other not-Twilight or Dash ship it just got more popular During and after Season 4 and Rarijack daily helped a lot with that but it’s upward trend started months before Rarijack daily even got going when the dynamic got lots of spotlight and moments in S4 (that and Rarity’s popularity in general began to go on the rise, sad to say but in both ships Applejack is basically the junior partner as far as the fandom is concerned).
As for the forums, the general shipping thread there hasn’t been active in a while so whatever.
@Mojo
I agree with you saying it is a ship that breaks the mold of the more popular ships. still, the Rarijack daily blog is still the reason why this ship is popular. the last post involving Rarijack daily was 10 days ago and the tumblr was updated twice last week… that’s certainly not a semi-hiatus in my opinion.
Rarijack Daily has ether been on hiatus or in semi-hiatus for pretty much the last 7 months, and Rarijack continues to gain images at a faster rate that AppleDash and shows no signs of stopping that. Yeah it made the ship more popular, it helped us a lot but now we get more art without it posting every day anyway. Even then Rarijack being the one not-Twilight or Dash ship among the Mane 6 that actually has a fanbase has pretty much always been the case.
@Background Pony #317B
You flavor of the month and I say a trend, which has been visible since late 2013 or so. And it IS indeed visible in Fan fiction to an extent, If you go through their groups you’ll notice AppleDash and Rarijack have actually been pretty even at getting fic for the last 2 years or so, AppleDash still has a large lead overall but that’s mostly because through 2011-2013 it WAS the much more popular ship, it had a direct competition with TwiDash for THE most popular and that showed in art as well I think it had almost 500 more images than Rarijack at one point. (regardless ficwise they both have been getting their asses kicked by TwiDash and FlutterDash in number of fic still being uploaded at least even if seemingly no one actually reads that mass of FlutterDash) Actually if you go look it up, id say about half of all Rarijack fic is from the last 2 years, while less than a third of AppleDash is, they get similar view counts too. To me pretty much all the evidence points to AppleDash as a ship in decline, maybe not in the kind of bad death spiral out of relevance PinkieDash eventually found itself in but well off of it’s peak.
And as another note on fan fiction, you have to realize any ship involving Dash or Twilight is going to have a much easier time getting fic than those that don’t, more than any other place in the fandom those are the top 2 on FIMfiction. And funnily enough if ANY ship has really gained in the last year there, it’s RariDash. But yeah the only reason Rarijack is relatively low in fic compared to some other big ships is that nether character is the sort of fic titan Dash or Twilight are.
@Background Pony #317B
How do Dash and Applejack understand each other? What values to they share? They both like sports and are competitive? That’s about all I can think of. As for being Prideful, Applejack, Dash and Rarity ALL Share that trait and can relate on that.
Rarity and Applejack on the other hand share VALUES, hard work, entrepreneurial spirit things like that. Im not the best at articulating all of this, but I actually think the biggest challenge both relationships would face is the same, Rarity and Rainbows ambitions and big dreams against Applejack’s contention in her current life.
As for all the other stuff, that’s the drama that needs to be overcome, I see that as a strength because it is a more long term preposition, so even once they are stable enough for a long term relationship they’ll have to keep working on it. Which means a lot more room for comedic antics. Which is another thing you guys miss by the way, the importance of entertainment value and character dynamics. One of my biggest problems with AppleDash personally is that I feel if they overcame their need to compete and stuff it’s just a totally empty and boring dynamic. I’ll admit your points on Trade Ya are interesting and I had not thought about them though.
Because it wouldn’t? AJ and Dash understand each other, though they might not always agree on one thing or another.
Rarity and Applejack come from such different worlds they almost can’t understand each other at all. She even hates nature. , which is at the core of Applejack’s life. Applejack might understand Rarity to a degree, but Rarity would constantly try to change things here and there to better suit herself - and even if she gets yelled at… she’ll still try to do so. It’s just in her nature. She can’t stand the very things Applejack surrounds herself with.
The difference between AppleDash and RariJack is communication. Applejack and Rainbow Dash fight from a clash of pride and ego– one of them blames the other for something, and the other can not or will not admit that she’s wrong, so she escalates. They both understand what the other is saying, it’s just wrong. This means the fights usually remain verbal and/or sane– the fights in Over A Barrel and the S4 premier were heated words and narrowed eyes, while the fight in Fall Weather Friends was (logically) supposed to be settled via competition, and only escalated within the competitions.
This is not the case with fights between Applejack and Rarity. All the way up to Trade Ya, one or both of them has no idea what the other is even saying. They think they know, but if asked to summarize what the other was mad about, or what she wanted, they’d be way off. This results in situations that keep escalating in almost random directions as one or both of them tries to grasp at or show what’s really wrong.
You can see this in play even when they’re making up in Trade Ya– each gets the other a peace offering based on what she thought the other wanted (a rusty pan, a piece of jewelry just like ones she already had) and not what they really were looking for (a more efficient pan, a more prestigious piece of jewelry.) They only hear what they want to hear, even when they’re trying to do something nice. This comes from a lack of understanding of each other. Rarity and Applejack aren’t even fighting with each other, they’re fighting with their own image of the other and what they’ve imagined she’s thinking, which is usually revealed to be demonstrably wrong.
I love you for that comment. You are right in so many way! I don’t hate the ship, but it is so stale over the past months and very much overused
What are you smoking?
Glad death-is-death is back!
Rarity and Applejack would just get to a point where they wouldn’t be able to stand each other at all, I think.
The AppleDash Every Day artist is actually back! Had some RL issues for a while, but they’re around again :). Artist tag is death-is-death.
And yeah - they’re constantly at each other’s throats. I can see them as friends, and perhaps even a passionate fling type of thing - short lived romance. But nothing with stability, nothing that has a long term staying power. They’d just constantly find faults in each other until it explodes.
Don’t see how “Appledashers did it too” makes it any less obnoxious.
@RainbowDash69
Pretty much this. That one blog alone provides Rarijack fans with a steady, reliable deluge of pictures. Sorta jealous, to be honest. One artist tried an AppleDash Daily thing for a bit but it never went anywhere.
@Background Pony #317B
I really do loathe the whole “opposites attract” idea. AJ and Rarity are CONSTANTLY bickering. I can see well enough why they’re friends, but lovers? Naw, they wouldn’t be able to stand each other.
Pretty much this. At some point, the rarijack pics had increased by 300 in the span of 3 months… and an entire third of those was from the rarijack daily blog, with a large portion of the other two thirds being ‘inspired’ (directly mentioned as such by the artists) by said blog.
The increase only seems to be in art, too - fics, for example, which tend to look into the character’s personality a bit more (characterization, hooo!) has not seen any increase in the popularity of RariJack at all. That increase is purely in art.
I was bored yesterday and went through the latest 20 pages for the ‘shipping’ tag, counting the number of pics for a mane 6 ship - just a 2 character ship, not 3+, nor am I counting any m6 shipped with some random other pone (no sunlight, no flashlight, no m6 with an OC, etc etc).
1 twipie, 1 pinkiedash, 1 raripie, 1 raridash, 1 appledash
3 twijack, 3 appleshy, 3 flutterdash, 4 twidash
6 TwiShy, mostly of Twi waving her but at Shy’s face.
And 14 bloody RariJack.
I then counted the next 20 pages:
1 RariTwi, Twipie and Raripie stay at 1, Raridash goes 1 to 2, pinkiedash 1 to 3, AppleDash makes the biggest leap going 1 to 7.
TwiJack and Appleshy go 3 to 6, flutterdash 3 to 7, twidash 4 to 7
TwiShy stays at 6
And Rarijack goes to 25.
It’s an utter plague of RariJack, which seems to just be the flavor of the month (year, really).
@Background Pony #F114
“made it lose the “looks realistic and plausable” luster it once had.”
Ahahahah, no. Sure, I’ll give you that there’s less interaction between them in the show, but that’s because their interaction isn’t full of drama. Drama is entertaining to most, hence it gets screentime for our amusement. AJ and Dash? The last on-screen interaction we had that focused on them to a degree (as in, not ‘them being in the episode, but not being the subject of it) was Castle-Mania. And all we saw there was the two enjoying a friendly challenge. None of the argumentative behavior from season 1 - it was clearly two buddies seeing who was bravest (and in the end, it was neither).
Other than that? They don’t argue, they aren’t at odds… unlike what happens in almost every AJ and Rarity interaction.
People just very much latch onto the “OMG OPPOSITES ATTRACT” idea, which is a terrible dynamic.
you know, the only reason rarijack is more “popular” is because of that “rarijack daily” blog?
that means it was only that one artist (who happened to be extremely popular, unfortunately) who made it have more images here.
What can I say, I like the Apple, I don’t like the Dash.
Well that’s what happens when a ship gradually slips out of the top tier. You know there was a time when Rarijack pictures dealt with the same thing, and people coming in going on about how Rarijack would never work. Then it got more popular. AppleDash just had the opposite happen to it, it went from maybe the biggest ship in the fandom to one clearly in decline. Probably because the lack of interaction and dynamics between the two of them in the two caught up to it, made it lose the “looks realistic and plausable” luster it once had.
Oh look, a rarijack comment on an appledash pic. How typical.
@YateTiemeng
She looks pensive. She’s just thinking/distracted.
Probably thinkin’ she’d rather be with Rares.