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Champions of Equestria

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semi-grimdark37190 artist:wadusher0347 garble2256 princess cadance41308 princess ember8865 princess flurry heart9947 spike93946 oc977346 oc:arcane46 oc:jewel132 oc:shine bright17 oc:taryan5 changeling68467 dracony9278 dragon89494 hybrid32759 comic:time fades39 g42093527 angry37765 blood32422 canterlot7429 comic138617 dead5480 death6301 decapitated2264 decapitation537 discussion in the comments836 fire16386 force field893 implied murder1273 interspecies offspring10144 magic99808 offspring51092 parent:garble173 parent:oc:gale flower10 parent:princess ember458 parent:spike3081 parents:canon x oc2375 parents:emble61 severed head1909 sword15211 war1664 weapon42636

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Travis Touchdown

@Background Pony #AA3B 
You’re missing the point. Shine Bright didn’t simply want power. She wanted absolute power, in essence everything that Twilight had. Shine Bright feared that, even under Twilight’ teaching, she would never be able to reach the same heights as she did. Therefore, she decided to murder Twilight, thinking that with her gone, there would be no one to match her in power.
Spiritus Arcane
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I can all too easily see Shine Bright look at history, see Twilight got wings after learning under Celestia, and feel she should be due the same thing.
 
You do realize you just basically described the origins of Sunset Shimmer right? Who’s to say that they weren’t trying, but considering Shine decided to brainwash her teacher’s son and have him help her murder his mother, I rather doubt she would have proven worthy…again, like pre-EqG Sunset. The difference being that Celestia caught on to Sunset’s power craving before she resorted to murder…Twilight unfortunately didn’t.
Background Pony #F967
I’m still utterly baffled by one thing: Shine Bright had to kill Twilight Sparkle to gain power, apparently?
 
Like, did Twilight Sparkle and Cadance just decide not to raise any more regular ponies to alicorns in the however long period it was since they had peace? Did they not even try? I can all too easily see Shine Bright look at history, see Twilight got wings after learning under Celestia, and feel she should be due the same thing. Historical context matters, yeah, but considering it’s actually possible for non-alicorns to become alicorns, you would think Twilight and Cadance would try something to work towards that. Instead, they apparently both stopped having kids after one foal apiece. No mention of Flurry Heart having kids, and with Arcane being gay, to a biased observer at least it looks like the alicorns are trying to maintain a monopoly on themselves.
 
But yeah, I think the plot of this comic derailed awhile ago.
ExistenceNull
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@Background Pony #69B0  
Ones removing a threat from without and insuring the safety of an empire from said threat, Celestia and Luna were the straw that broke the camels back in this case.  
The others destroying a nation from within to get revenge.  
Theres a difference but it’s more so in both intent, which I rarely care about in the long term for things like this, and the actions all leading to the end result.
Vaidelot
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Humble Dash-worshipper
Some say that revenge is a dish best served cold… but revenge that served in blood and fire is MUCH more satisfying!
Background Pony #E5D1
@PonyPon
 
And that excuses it? That makes it ok to also cause the deaths of thousands because it was in another nation? Yeah no, that’s not how it works
Background Pony #E5D1
You know the ironic part. Twilight led a similar war against the Changelings to get justice for them murdering the royal sisters and no one bats a eye about the deaths caused by her and yet Spike does a similar thing to get justice and everyone labels him as the fucking villain. Where’s the logic in that!?
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@Background Pony #F65F  
“HE AVENGED HIS SISTER, ALL THOSE WHO NOW HAVE THE SAME PAIN CAUSED TO THEM BY HE OF THE GILDED CROWN SHALL NOW PRAISE HIM, THE SOULS LOST FORGOTTEN!” Cried the zealot to the stars.  
I don’t care about what a single individual wanted. He is partially responsible for thousands of dead who didn’t even know the truth, when he had more then enough options to end this without bloodshed save the Brat Shine Bright.  
This isn’t justice, It’s a noble upstart decidig the rest of the world isn’t worth the dirt he stands on so he can avenge a loved one who wouldn’t stand by him in his crimes
Background Pony #753F
@ExistenceNull
 
Your villainizing someone who wanted justice done. Hell, honestly if spike didn’t do this who the fuck knows what would of happened. We saw how power hungry Bright was, enough to brainwash Twilights son and have him murder her who the fuck knows what could of happened. She could of started countless wars with anyone that isn’t under her hoof, oppress the citizens of equestria, wage mass genocidal campaigns against races that won’t bow to her. She is a power hungry brute who wouldn’t just stop at sitting upon the throne of Equestria.
 
Hell if anything the events in this comic is just like how real life shit like war occur and if we followed your logic in real life as you try to put in this comic a lot of worse shit would happen
Ignorance
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@ExistenceNull  
Oh I agree with you there. I really dislike stories that do this to canon characters I like (Spike is my favorite character on the show, even before Season Six happened). The author isn’t really portraying Spike, he’s just projecting his own fantasies into this and using Spike to disguise his self-insert.
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@Background Pony #F65F  
Who gives a crap whose praised when half the nation isn’t dead?  
I’d defecate on this mans grave three hundred years later after learning about this because he’s still a horrible, selfish, apathetic animal who threw a country under a bus for his own ends.@Ignorance  
Thats what I’m arguing at.  
Everyone wants to say I’m trying to give Bright an out when I’m not. I’m pointing out how utterly Mary Sue-ish Spikes actions are.
Background Pony #753F
@PonyPon
 
And a innocent person is labeled the bad guy, while the real bad guy who murdered a princess is praised. Yeah Total Win-Win Even more Heavy Sarcasm
Ignorance
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Alright, let’s calm all the drama here. Both sides of the argument have points.
 
First off, Spike is most definitely under no responsibility to let a villain get away with her villainy. Especially when said villain threatens his family. There might have been better ways to go about it but as far as attempting to publicly oust her and fleeing to someplace where he and his daughter could be safe then I’d say he did nothing wrong there. Some folks call that backing Shine into a corner, but the comic did mention that Equestria was pretty much split on its opinion on whether Spike’s story was the truth or not. Shine escalated the conflict from there by opting for executions of those questioning her rule over countless other possibilities such as, I don’t know, forging evidence that would have disproved Spike’s claims. She was the one in power and Spike was a thousand miles away and opting for a smear campaign. Shine must have had tons of options that didn’t involve murder and chose to go with that regardless. In good conscience, it’s hard to hold Spike accountable for the fact that Shine Bright was a monster that decided murder was the most effective way to silence her detractors over any of the non-violent and not-obviously-evil ways to do it.
 
But, on the other hand, Spike is totally in the wrong for escalating this to a war. It once again comes down to options here as, between his alliances with Changelings and the Crystal Empire, there was ample opportunity for Spike to build and present a case. Gather proof and support and get enough folks onto his side that eventually the rest of Equestria and probably even the army has to realize he’s right and turn on Shine Bright. Especially given the executions should have pretty much swayed anyone that had any doubts over whether Spike’s story was true. Granted, as powerful as she was, there’s a chance Shine was using magic to keep the ponies of Canterlot on her side. In which case that makes the war even worse as Spike and the others would be killing soldiers that aren’t in control of themselves. Besides, the infiltration powers of the Changelings would make getting to Shine Bright and kidnapping or (if it came to it) assassinating her a piece of cake, Cadence’s word as an actual alicorn and princess should have carried way more weight than some upstart student that’s murdering her subjects left and right…
 
And all this boils down to one major problem: Mass executions to silence detractors and starting a war to kill one individual are not actions taken by actual sensible individuals. The problem is less the characters themselves (as the Spike presented on the show would never carry things this far, especially not in Twilight’s memory or name) and more the fact that the creator of this comic obviously really wanted this war to happen and didn’t think about whether it was truly in character. Given the presentation in the comic I’m guessing the creator is trying to make Spike look like a bad-ass, but has fallen into the trap of a Protagonist Centered Morality where it’s okay for Spike to trigger a massive war because he’s the “good guy” in the story. And for any fanwork for any character in any fandom that’s doing them a massive disservice.
Background Pony #753F
@ExistenceNull
 
Ah yes, then with no one knowing of her crime, Spike and his family get labeled as traitors for assassinating the princess and have to run for their entire lives with everypony believing the Usurper was the good guy and spike is the bad guy. Yeah great plan, oh so great. Heavy Sarcasm
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@Psyga315  
On what grounds? That was horrible and a cruel thing.  
Good lord people like to assume you hate a specific character.  
I treat all of them in the same critical fashion so you can bugger right off with that flimsey straw-manning.
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@Starswirl  
The only namecalling is the character in the comic, I didn’t say a thing about you.  
And as it stands, their the same guards, under a different crown. And we’ve seen how utterly worthless they are in kidnapping and infiltration tactics.  
Spike has Changelings, who in thos have already killed people behind closed doors, people who shouldn’t have been on the list in the first place.  
Why didn’t he have her put down or kidnapped like every other ruler, why kill thousands over petty revenge?