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separating morality from legality requires an understanding of what those actually are.
saying its my legal right to steal peoples intellectual property is dubious at best.
That’s within your legal right as none of those OCs are trademarked. People are still going to think you’re scum regardless.
And the big difference is that OCs are actually original to their creator. Fighting is Magic used characters trademarked by Hasbro, which nullifies Mane Six’s right to use them as they please as much as almost any mod that’s been released. Well, except for all the crappy OCs some modders put into the game, those weren’t owned by Hasbro.
i have been contemplating over the past few hours to find oc’s of people and use them, post pictures of them doing stuff i like, and refusing to take any of it down regardless of what the owner wants. i might go to character auctions and use those without buying them, or just grab them from here.
they should be grateful that im making them more popular. i may even take their own art, recolor it and post it with my own name attached to it!
wow that’s genius, i wonder why more people dont do that?
I really wish you didn’t have such a negative view of these creators who have spent countless hours for the community.
That said, I too am glad about leaks as it is a shame that all their efforts and time into this was scrapped barring their spin off Thems Fighting Herds. It’s nice that others can play this now assuming this is the most complete option and becomes more readily available and I feel they’re just pretending to be upset because doing otherwise might spell a lawsuit if Hasbro learns it’s intentional or if they are upset because they’re now at risk to be sued which they don’t deserve.
Edited
you have quite a few problematic ideas about how intellectual property works
Again, I can’t tell whether Mane Six’s annoyance about the leak is genuine or a white lie that disassociates them from the Tribute Edition and later mods to avoid culpability following the C&D from Hasbro. It certainly is convenient for them to say it and I do not blame them for it. But if it’s causing them emotional problems even now, that is unhealthy.
And they really don’t have anyone to blame for this but themselves when they released the test version to a small group whose non-disclosure relied solely on the honour system. It was guaranteed that this was going to be passed around by people who were hyped and knew all their friends were as well. And in a way it was a good thing they did because otherwise, nobody would have been able to play it at all because the danger of Cease & Desist was real and it did happen.
I’m also not swayed by the arguement that this was their project and other people have no right distribute or alter it. Modding games has been a tradition ever since the earliest days of gaming and if you put something on the internet, it becomes everyone’s property. Including your home adress and credit card number because it is practically impossible to control the sharing of information and data once it’s released. Mane Six should have known this before they gave the files out to people they ultimately couldn’t trust. And ultimately, they don’t own any of the properties that comprised Fighting is Magic. Not the characters, not the brand or the engine. The Tribute Edition and its like are fanmade games of a fanmade game of a Hasbro property.
That is not to say I subscribe very strongly to intellectual property rights in the first place, I’m more sympathetic to the Confusian ideal. Ideas should not be owned, but passed around. I understand that inventors and innovators need an incentive to operate within a free marketplace of ideas and they should reap some benefit from it, but it’s given rise to some very unhealthy, creativety stiffling practices and Mane Six itself was a victim of that. For them to throw that back in the face of the modders who kept working on the beta version after the C&D just seems disingenuous and it isn’t like they have a legal position to stand on this.
before they switched websites there was a page dedicated to the response to the CnD and how they felt about the stolen files. i talked with one of the developers of the game and they were
veryclear on how much it hurt them, so much so that they could not talk about it without getting overwhelmed with negative feelings.the people using the stolen files pretend its a tribute and lie about how much the original creators benefit from their stolen stuff being used against their wishes.
none of the creators of fighting is magic want them working on this stuff. i have on several occasions asked the people that made this “tribute” to contact the Mane6 to ask, none have done it. ive contacted Mane6 myself and they didnt want this being made.
every time i see this stuff getting boosted due to a new animation coming out, or a new update i get anxiety knowing its going to hurt the original developers again. and every single time the people that push the content hide behind the idea that its harmless or that the Mane6 somehow want this stuff.
if they took 5 minutes to ask them they would know they dont want this, but none do it. that is what bothers me the most.
The actual cause for Fighting is Magic being shut down is not so much the leak, but most likely the attention it was getting for its nomination to be presented at EVO 2013. The game to be given presentation was decided by a charity drive, and Fighting is Magic was getting an insane amount money from its fans to a point where the organization basically had to remove it from the contest and give it a ‘honorary presentation’ due to backlash. This was unmistakeable proof that Fighting is Magic was very profitable if monetized and forced Hasbro’s legal department’s hand.
The leak happened before the EVO 2013 controversy and wasn’t the catalyst. While it was frustrating at the time for Mane Six that some tester shared the files against their wishes, this was a self-inflicted wound. After the C&D letter, the leaked versions became a liability in case the lawyers believed Mane Six was continuing work despite the warning, so Mane Six were compelled to denounce it just to avoid any ambiguity that would get them in trouble for a leak that occurred months ago. What the developers really feel about the Tribute Edition is probably going to remain unclear for a long time, because their statements must be filtered through the lens of ‘this is what Hasbro wants them to say’.
Mane 6 may have tried to prevent the appearance of the Tribute but I believe that it would not prevent the emergence of others that neither announced in forums or videos were
If you think I DO NOT UNDERSTAND what happened to the Mane 6 team this is your opinion and I respect. So if you have conclusive arguments to speak against what was right or wrong, I have mine
You have the right to be against the game being stolen to continue “alive” after
You have the right to say who is right or wrong to accept the game to be supported or not
You have the right to feel the pain and frustration of the team for the game to have been continued even though Mane 6 asked with education not to continue and seeing some of them getting recognition, even those versions mentioning the game was originally based by the team
I already said before that I did not want this “discussion” because of an image of the game and as much as you have gone to talk directly with them, I understand the loss of work however what was done with the game after does not have why discuss because it is not relevant
there are several moments where fighting is magic were mentioned, especially at conventions, and it was gaining popularity, but hasbro made no legal move against them until it was entered into a game competition. the absolute exact reason is never explained, im going more off the timeline i built trying to figure it out.
ive talked to one of the members of the mane6 directly about this, and i spend hours digging up all the information while the leak was happening, i knew about the leak before my friend did and was actively fighting with him to stop it.
i tracked down one of the original leakers. not the beta tester but one of their “friends” who they had shared a copy with and who then posted it all over the place. took forever to find them but they were stupid and were bragging on a forum about it. when i confronted them they poofed and since this is the internet i couldn’t find them again.
and later the day the CnD was publicly mentioned by the mane6 i spent hours just trying to calm my friend down, and we talked about the mess and the stuff leading up to it in detail, trying to figure out a way to fight it.
i admit there were several flags that hit hasbro on starting the CnD but they did nothing until after it was entered into a competition with a prize. aka making money off of licensed material.
you could be right, maybe the timing was just off on my timeline. i admit im not infallable, i make mistakes too. if you are right you are right.
either way stealing it and spreading it around did nobody favors and may still have been a major factor in its shutdown.
actually fighting is magic was shut down because it was mentioned on a live camera at a convention with hasbro staff attending
which really was inevitable
the makers of the tribute edition were TOLD BY THE CREATORS TO NOT MAKE IT.
ill say it a bit clearer for you. hypothetically so you understand the comparison.
let me steal your oc, and then just pretend its mine. ill open blogs with it, ill post art of your oc doing whatever I want them doing. you can tell me to stop, and ill just add “this is a tribute” to everything i use it for. and then…THEN if you complain ill just block you, and tell everyone you wanted me to make all that art so now everyone will think you are totally ok with all this new stuff i’m doing with it. i can even say its mine now and use it to make money.
oh and the kicker. if YOU use your OC anymore youll get sued by Hasbro. so all you can do is cry because you legally cant use your oc anymore but i can.
that clear up anything for ya?
@Background Pony #B9E4
ill say this…im 99% sure you just called the mane6 greedy intentionally. but there is a very slight VERY slight part of me that thinks you meant to say it ironically, to say the opposite of what you meant to be funny…but i dont think thats the case so ill say this….
yes the mane6 are evil. they made a game for free, spent 2 years developing it, and when it was stolen from them, all they did was try to prevent their work from being spread around because it would get them in TROUBLE…
truly heartless monsters trying to prevent the CnD they knew would come if it got spread around outside the 6 or so testers they were working with.
they should be punished for all their evil evil transgressions. what do you suggest? destroying 2 years of their life? oh wait…that already happened.
i VERY rarely insult someone because usually its easy to make mistakes and everyone deserves to explain themselves. but you called some of the nicest people i know greedy because they wouldn’t give you a finished game they legally couldnt complete because people like you STOLED IT FROM THEM BEFORE IT WAS DONE.
you are the WORST kind of person, you small minded, petty, greedy, entitled piece of garbage. how dare you insult a group of people you know nothing about, to insult them when they were trying their best to create something beautiful? you and people like you are the reason fighting is magic was leaked and eventually CnD’d. people who justified the leak and spread it around without caring who it hurt.
the people that leaked fighting is magic and the people that refused to listen to them BEGGING for it not to be spread around, you hurt them, you nearly destroyed them, stealing 2 years of their life and causing such trauma that they almost gave up entirely.
great job, if you actually called them greedy then i actually hate you now.
hey MODS!
why dont you do your job and add Fighting is magic to the DNP already? the original creators said they wanted the spread of that game removed. seriously email them and ASK.
keeps people like this from making money or getting popularity off others hard work.
and yes i insulted another person directly, if i broke a rule fine, punish me for it ill accept that because rules are rules. though id like you to also look at people slandering a good companies name like that too. seriously.
if people actually listened to what the original creators wanted none of this would have happened, instead we have a bunch of idiots running around justifying theft and calling the original creators greedy for not being happy about it.
Exactly. The game could be tested by someone on the team rather than trusting the wrong person but I understand that not every bug will happen to the developers themselves
Fighting is Magic Tribute Edition which is considered the best version of all, has no “tribute” in the name for nothing and I believe that it would be part of the result that Mane 6 wanted for the final version of them
Tribute Edition was only born because it was developed in the shadows and therefore Hasbro did not cancel it and between several subsequent versions
Edited
Well, can you blame the #339A for defending the greedy Mane6 over their game?
They could have finished the game in secret and could have doubts about allowing fan games at EVO without cease and desists.
The intention of my post was not to start any of this, after all I know that the game has a side that loves it to be revived by fans and the other who hates it for being leaked by a tester or someone inside the team and being relived by others.I do not care who it was
I support the game being continued by fans yes, but after I understood what really happened to the original version (the famous Leaked Edition from where it all started), I wanted it to be completed by the team who were thinking of creating 17 characters in the final version that would be of better quality than so many random versions created
Either you love and tolerate the game, a “brony motto” that has never served anything I’m seeing, or you ignore it at one time, after all, what happened years ago can no longer be corrected except with the successor Them’s Fightin’ Herds
Edited
ill reply to a bunch of the things you said in parts.
it was leaked by a tester. not one of the Mane6. and the new testers for the new game have VERY strict non-disclosure agreements that if you break get you immediately removed from the project. its a legal document, they are not fooling around anymore, they also have a lawyer to help prevent that same issue happening again. its not a drama. it was someone stealing 2 years of work and leaking it online.
yes stolen. it was stolen. not just the sprites, not just the idea. they spent 2 YEARS of development. literally a group of 6 people working every day for 2 year. someone else downloading the files and adding a few hours of work of recolors and sound effects is not even remotely the same. if they wanted to fight with ponies so badly they could have just used mugen and imported an applejack sprite, but no they are using stolen property instead. do you see the difference at all? stolen. stolen.
having trouble understanding what you mean here. are you saying that importing a sprite to mugen is the same as using a stolen program? mugan is designed to be free, its a sandbox fighting game. FIM was owned by someone and it was VERY CLEAR they did not want anyone stealing it. these 2 things are nothing alike. you have justified stealing because its the same when it isnt.
i didn’t say that? but sure pretend you are quoting me i guess? i think you were trying to say…. that the mane6 don’t get paid? you are confusing me on that though, i didn’t talk about them making money at all. the FIM game was always meant to be free, and actually interesting point. the reason they got CnD’d was because the leaked game was entered into a competition. so someone tried making money off the stolen game. so your quote was wrong, your argument was odd, and i have no idea why you brought this idea up.
i have no idea what this means. are you saying the mane6 DID want more versions? i seriously cant understand this.
never said they wanted paid. still cant understand why you brought up a thing i never said. not distrubute grace in some way? what?
seriously i cant understand this statement. elaborate?
it was not being put on steam, it was going to be a free download, even for free steam does not allow trademarked items being used by other groups, thats literally their rules. thats why you see newgrounds with a billion pony games but not steam. steam is a lot more official, so yeah hasbo would CnD it if steam tried to allow it, but steam itself wouldnt allow it anyway, its against their rules.
ill say this clearly so you can understand.
the CnD was because someone entered the leaked game into a competition. it was not because of the Mane6 advertising their game. no idea what the last half of your statement means though. that the mane6 isnt legally responsible for the future games? another thing i didnt say anything against. i did say however that the constant updates on the game bothers the mane6 because its like their dead son being dug up and paraded around, its rude, its hurtful, its traumatizing for some of them.
yes. 1000 times yes you are wrong.
the process of making a new game was not BECAUSE the leak. it was not to prove they were better than the leak. every one of the mane6 reacted differently to it but the leak BROKE them.
the entire group was going to disband until lauren faust literally came in and saved it. the new game was made because they wanted to make something beautiful, thats it.
its not some glorious climb to the top despite hardship, they lost everything and someone else saved them.
you are acting like if they were actually hurt by the leak they should have given up forever? that by overcoming the horrible traumas they faced it somehow makes the act of it being leaked and them getting CnD’d not so bad?
what?
all the what. seriously.
Well, thanks for doing a semi-rebuttal.
But if he is right then I wish an MLP fighting game would exist, and I don’t mean a beat-em-up, I mean a 2D fighting game similar to MvC and KOF.
Uuugh…As much as you’re right about most of your text I disagree with some
The Fighting is Magic updates died in february this year so now he only has random videos of him and Mugen
The game was yes to be withdrawn from the internet which I agree but if it was leaked, it was by someone from within the team itself years ago that possibly can not even be in the current team but I say it is unnecessary this whole drama just because the game has been continued to this day
Fighting is Magic may have been stolen but most versions after the leak hardly have the original team name and the warning “based on Mane 6’s work” before the main screen
Which animated TV series character is not in several Mugens?They would have ponies in them one way or the other and that’s what happened to the Street Fighter attacks on Aj and Rarity before they updated 100% to the Fighting is Magic sprites
This is where I see so much plothurt with who it is only remembering of the team not wanting more versions of the Fighting
I understand that the game would be free when it was finalized by the team,so HOW could they get some money later? Of course they would not distribute grace in some way
If the game were for Steam even if it was free, Hasbro would surely sue them to remove the game from there
About the C&D, it was by carelessness of the own team that made videos of the production and was what could be found much easier by Hasbro so if the game revived with the fans the fault is not theirs and neither of Mane 6,after all they would not even suspect the project is prevented
If the team were lamenting that Fighting is Magic still live due to “fans who did not respect their choice to stop with new creations”,THEY WOULD NOT HAVE STARTED TO CREATE A BETTER GAME,am I wrong?!
Them’s Fightin ‘Herds when it’s finally released will not only be for everyone to forget Fighting is Magic but also to show that they can outperform all versions created by fans of their old project
Edited
What are you even talking about?
fighting is magic was leaked by a tester, posted on 4chan, spread around while the mane6 begged them to stop, then it was CnD’d by hasbro because of the leak.
a fighting game with ponies is fine, im talking about a pirated, edited, and reposted game that the mane6 (the company that spent 2 years making it) completely wants eradicated from the internet.
what does that have to do with hasbro making their own game?
if this game was 100% removed from the internet the mane6 would be happy. that has nothing to do with future productions, it has to do with the idea that the fans of fighting is magic, the people that continue to support the editors and give them money, and tell them to continue are all pieces of garbage.
they dont care about the mane6 they just want a free game, which is ironically what the mane6 planned all along until the leak.
i dont care about hasbros projects, i dont care about this collective feeling of spoiled pretentious “i deserve this because i want it” idiocy.
the mane6 made it. it was stolen from them and their 2 years of work was completely destroyed in a wave of their own fans not caring at all about them and complaining when they didnt finish the project.
this post, this game, the youtube videos, the editors making the game after the mane6 told them to stop. all of them are garbage, they dont care about the mane6. this isnt a tribute, this isnt continuing their legacy, they told them to stop!
and their “fans” just dont care. self-serving garbage that dont care if they hurt the people they claim to care about.
“good luck not wanting a fighting game with magic.” dont put words in my mouth
“everyone will be unhappy” everyone except the people that spent 2 years making the game. and the vast majority of people that dont even care about this.
imagine.
someone steals your project. gets you in trouble legally, gets your entire company almost shut down, gives you no end of stress, then for YEARS they continue to milk your project for money and attention while swearing its all for you.
that is what happened to the mane6
every one of those game modifiers that say this is for the original creators are liars and deserve to be shut down.
Okay, good luck not wanting a fighting game with ponies.
Because if you really want that, that’s how you’re gonna get.
Unless Hasbro does truce with Mane6 to revive their fan game and do the same thing Rooster Teeth is doing with the makers of RWBY: Grimm Eclipse, an MLP fighting game will never exist and everyone will be unhappy and if you are fine with that, good luck.
Edited
do i want fighting is magic to what?
it wont cease to exist because its out there already, it has been leaked, then spread around like wildfire by people the mane6 trusted not to spread around. that is what got it CnD’d in the first place.
leakers, hackers, and ten thousand people that didn’t care about the company all spreading it around got it shut down.
the reason fighting is magic stopped is because it got leaked. it is still being edited and every time its posted it hurts the company.
not legally, but mentally. this was what got them to lose 2 years of their work, a companies sole project stolen by their fans and spread around after they begged them to stop. it messed them up. one person quit, another had a mental breakdown.
i have tried talking to them about it, they cant talk about it still because it gives them horrible anxiety.
do i want fighting is magic to exist? not anymore. it is the bane of the mane6. a reminder of when their friends betrayed them and their fans were so selfish and petty that they didnt listen to them.
“its fare use, i downloaded it so i can do whatever i want with it”
“you should be happy we edited it! we made it better!”
“why are you mad at us? im just enjoying what i found!”
a thousand excuses that dismissed the people that created it. they still want this stuff shut down entirely 100%.
and since i actually care about the mane6 i do want fighting is magic to stop existing.
Do you want FiM to cease to exist?!
whoever made this stole it and modified it, both against the wishes of the original creators.