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This aged well.Sorry about that. In all fairness, there are a lot of people to keep track of on this site, and I really didn’t want to risk going off on that specific tangent.
@Alexlayer
Honestly, I’m not entirely sure I’m really feeling Big Mac and Sugar Belle. I mean, they kinda show what she likes so much about him, but what it is about her that has him so smitten is basically left open for interpretation (unless I’m missing something).
@Alexlayer
In all fairness, she has probably the strongest magical powers of the group, so it’s not unreasonable to see her as a valid source of protection. Still not the best way to handle the situation (especially for an alleged lifeguard), but it’s not “Eat her, not me!” either, so let’s focus on the bigger issues instead of stuff like this that’s easier to address and could be used as a way to dodge more important concerns.
No, but when there’s a power imbalance like that, it’s just wrong. Not that you can’t have or write a romance with some power imbalance, but you shouldn’t portray it as perfectly innocent and idealized when that’s the case. Imagine young girls seeing this and reading it as “it’s okay to flirt with the camp counselor (who in real life might be many more years older than you) and it’s also fine when he flirts with you!”
Then he should have tried HARDER or seek other means (and, y’know, NOT cover up for her), not just give up, turn around and scoff at the situation.
This just goes back to my point of the writers acting like he’s the best thing since sliced bread. That “trying to be funny” was cringy as hell, but they try to present it like actually funny by having Twilight be their intended audience surrogate there and then. It’s just that much more annoying when you find something dislikable (and you’ve got more than enough reasons for it) but the show keeps on hammering on it that you should like it.
I don’t like Timberlight either but some of these points are just ridiculous
And she went along with it! What’s your angle for complaint here? He’s about the same age. Flirting is something late teens do, you know. Is this about “a guy on duty should do nothing but his duty”?
He TRIED to reason with her but she wouldn’t listen.
He was trying to be funny, and Twilight actually liked that
Let’s see:
• Flirt with a student under his charge.
• Let that distract him from watching over his sister’s gradual descend into madness.
• Trying to cover up for what she was doing rather than actually get her to stop or seek help for that.
• Being a self-centered jackass.
• Acting, in Legend of Everfree, like the day was saved thanks to him.
• Being so full of himself that he disses Applejack – a far more competent individual – when she tries to help as beach watcher.
• Cowering behind Twilight and using her as a shield against what appeared to be a threat.
But honestly, the worst part is not even all that, or something that can be accounted to his actual character. The REAL problem is that all these flaws are outright ignored by the writing team and they expect us to take Timber like some awesome guy who’s totally compatible with Twilight (which he’s not, as two of the EqG shorts have painfully illustrated), when he’s anything but that. It honestly makes me wonder who the hell in the team lacks this much self-awareness.
I… suspect you are confusing me with someone else? I mean, I love how they’ve handled Sunset for the most part (the most I’m NOT enjoying is the hints that they want to hook her back with Flash…), and I’m inclined to agree Flash could be made into a more enjoyable character if they’d stop playing it so “safe” with him, which I suspect must be the reason for which they made him so generic. Heck, I’ve even made my own characters for the guy as to how I’d write him in a more interesting light (or at least, what I’d personally find more interesting) while still more or less staying loyal to canon as it is.
@Scrounge
Yeah, I’m inclined to agree too.
@Scrounge
Yup. Like the BP above me said, though, the Perfect Pear is the most prominent exception, second one probably being Big Mac/Sugar Belle.
“Honestly, though, G4 doesn’t really do a good job of handling romance in general. Particularly when one of them is a major or semi-major character.”
True. Perfect Pear being one of the prominent exceptions
It doesn’t help that most of Flash’s screen time was in the first movie, which was kind of a mess in general. I can’t help but feel like if they’d tried, they could have turned around the general opinion on him like they did for Sunset Shimmer.
(Please note that I said general opinion. I’m aware you personally don’t care for how the whole thing was handled (unless I’m mistaking you for someone else, which I admit is possible), but you can’t deny that in general, opinions of Sunset as a character was more positive after Rainbow Rocks.
@Alexlayer
I’ll agree to that, with the caveat that I still think Flash, as a blank slate, would be easier to fix than Timber, who’s done things that actively left a bad impression.
Honestly, though, G4 doesn’t really do a good job of handling romance in general. Particularly when one of them is a major or semi-major character.
I mean, I think you’ve got a point. The problem with Flash is that he was incredibly generic and bland and the show never did anything to present him past any of that. With Timber, they clearly intended to make him more distinguishable and have more of a personality, but as it is, he came out as incredibly unlikable.
They’re still both characters who could be written better but just aren’t getting that, though. The only real difference is what’s the actual problem behind their bad writing.
But yeah, Raggamuffin is clearly just meant as a joke, probably a trolling to Rarijack fans too. ^^U
I honestly don’t think Timber and Flash are on the same level. The only real strike against Flash is that they had material there but didn’t use it. In other words, the problem is what they didn’t do. (And no, this doesn’t make him a good character, but it doesn’t necessarily make him a bad one either.) Timber, on the other hand… Let’s just say there’s plenty about Timber to not like. As for Rags, I’m leaving him out because he was obviously meant as a joke.
Well said. Still curious how/if that will be brought up again, as there’s supposedly at least one more cruise short
Word.
I mean, yeah, he could (really need to some something about the generic blandness, thouugh). Timber and Raggamuffin could both also theorically and by all means concievably be interesting and likable characters as well, but the point is that, ultimately, they aren’t. We can’t really judge something by what it could be over what it actually is. We may see potential in it, but unless that potential is met, there’s no merit to what could be.
Rarity having a brief crush on a one-off joke character whose main trait is being superficially similar to Applejack seems to have “trolling the shippers” written all over it.
@Alexlayer
In all fairness, I feel like Flash could have been an interesting character if they’d just done something with him. His history with Sunset, in particularly, seems like it was supposed to wind up being important and just never did.
@Background Pony #E685
Back in the early days, Big Mac and Spike were pretty much the only male characters to have gotten more than two minutes of screen time, and most (probably all, but I can’t say for sure that there weren’t a few stragglers) ships between two members of the Mane Six got their start around that point as well.
your current filter.Someone tell that to the writers of EqG…
That’s pretty much one of the big reasons for all the lesbian ships: There’s just next to no interesting stallions around, why would we waste a good character on a shitty male partner :D
Applejack: “Have you looked at the stallions around here lately?”
I’ve learned my lesson. I’m not gonna change anyone’s mind here, specially not the Starlight fanboys or whoever actually believes Flash and Timber to be good characters, nor is it my job, duty, or even business to do so. It’s why I’ve been avoiding getting into arguments as of late.
I’m simply advising you to follow this example because if I’m honest, from where I stand, this just looks like you’re being a dick towards people who just want to have fun shipping their ships. Now, if per chance that’s exactly what you want to be doing, then I ain’t gonna do anything to try to stop you, but if this perspective serves you in any way, you might want to reconsider your stance and attitude.
In canon, most ponies just plain don’t show any interest in dating. Other than the married couples (most of whom were introduced as somepony’s parents), there’s one couple, two guys with crushes that will never happen, two girls who are likewise unlucky in love (one of whom loves a guy who isn’t even in the same dimension as her), and I’m pretty sure that’s about it. The deepest and most passionate love displayed is Trixie’s love of herself.
That still doesn’t make “conservation of detail” what you claimed it was. Stop trying to weasel out of admitting you were wrong.
I assumed we were discussing canon.
You seem to think “unlikely” and “impossible” are the same thing. They’re not. Even if there’s just a 1% chance of something happening, it can still happen. If I was saying “Rarijack is canon”, I might get why you want DNA evidence, but “not specifically disproven” is good enough for art or fanfics. People ship Rainbow Dash with Zephyr Breeze, and she hates him, which to me seems like it would be a better argument against the ship than “they’re both girls”; how about you go bug those guys for a bit?
I cannot point to a specific scene where two ponies (or EqG humans) of the same gender clearly and unambiguously making out with each other. If you wish to believe this proves conclusively that homosexuality does not exist, so be it. I could insist that you find me a scene where somepony, anypony, says they only date the opposite gender, but you’d miss the point entirely.
You play what games you like I’ll be done at this table pretty soon.
But first, I demand that you admit, here and now, that “conservation of detail” does not mean what you claimed it did. I know it says weird things about my priorities, but that’s the part that really pissed me off.
OK then, my answer is yes, but I could ask you the exact same question.
@Scrounge
True, but heterosexuality is more common then just 51%, and probability is nowhere close to being meaningless, as you seem to imply. Besides, Rarity has only shown interest in stallions, which increases her likelihood of heterosexuality even further.
First, writers and animators are two completely separate teams. Second, that assumption seems more like a post hoc argument then actual conclusive evidence. Third, none of those instances are explicitly romantic, personal interpretations are not evidence.
You did not counter my point about those being out of context, you just stated that they weren’t because you say so.
@Ihhh
“More likely” and “guaranteed” are nowhere near the same. 51% would be enough to count as “more likely”.
If you wanted to argue about Applejack, I might budge, but only because I wouldn’t be shocked if she was actually asexual.
@Ihhh
They may not be married or anything, but the writers have been purposefully including moments between them that could easily be interpreted as romantic since season 2, specifically as a response to the brony community shipping the two of them. That’s as close as you can get on a show like this.
@Ihhh
I wasn’t. I was using the actual definition. If you object to the manner in which I corrected you, that’s something else entirely, but, and I quote, “you do not get to choose your own definitions”.
@Ihhh
The cheek kisses were obviously platonic and I just put them there for my own amusement and because you’re starting to annoy me, but some of these things really don’t change much in context. In particular, that sign on the booth; DHX had to know damn well how that would look.