I hate twilight because of the brony marry her

They hate you because you’re a princess now

Poor Twilight. Don’t listen to the anti Alicorn people, they’re just upset that status-quo changed.

She could ask Rarity to teach her make better nests for birds. It isn’t a hopeless case. All she needs is little practise.

@Background Pony  
And? As I stated, Twilight has done absolutely nothing since becoming an alicorn that she couldn’t do before. She flew. So did Rarity. Having a hunch or gut feeling is not sufficent evidence to claim she’s a Sue.
 
I have a gut feeling Dash’ll become OP’d in season four, therefore she’s a Mary Sue. That doesn’t make any sense. So why would it if you replace “Dash” with “Twilight”?
 
As for Starswiral, canon is a blank regarding the timeline. We don’t know if Celestia and Luna were there or not. Based on Luna’s comments and Celestia’s info of his personal life, an assumption can be made that they knew him, but don’t mistake that assumption for fact.

@Suineder  
An alicorn itself, nothing intrinsically if they’re common to a setting. Here, they aren’t, and until they slapped wings on Cadance, there were 2. The jarring change in the lore is pretty bad, but again, nothing intrinsically sueish about alicorns, just Cadance or getting the “extra specialness” of being one.
 
It’s the Royalty bit that’s got to do with being a Mary Sue. Twilight especially, with a case of “Wow, look at my crown-shaped birth mark!”. It’s especially bad if a series likes to go on about destiny… and unfortunately in S3 we got a LOT of that.

What do Mary Sues have to do with being an alicorn? “Alicorn” is just a synonym of “winged unicorn”. I mean, shit, even e621 knows that.

@xTSGx  
And that’s where we disagree.
 

 
“Einstein Sue definition: “A Mary Sue that is a genius underdog.” On countless occasions (“Swarm of the Century”, “A Canterlot Wedding”, “Lesson Zero”, “Return of Harmony”, “Too Many Pinkies”, “Magic Duel”), Twilight has no idea what the solution to a problem was and had to rely on others (Pinkie, Cadance/Shining Armor, Spike, Celestia, Pinkie again, and Zecora repsectivally) to either solve the problem or giver her the solution. She’s also not exactly an underdog given her position as Element of Magic and the Princess’s student.”
 
Notice how in Swarm of the Century, one of her ideas actually WOULD HAVE WORKED if it WEREN’T for Pinkie. A Canterlot Wedding, she’s the one who is “right all along” and is “wrongfully accused”, which is a Sue trait. Lesson Zero is a lesson quickly forgotten, and the only problem WAS her.Too Many Pinkies was her giving the solution, Pinkie just happened to manage not to get sent back. Hell, that solution was borderline creepy, considering the copinkies showed emotion (such as fear), sentience, and sapience. “Magic Duel”, nopony straight up told her to trick it. I’ll give you that she isn’t an underdog at most points.
 
The entire world has repeatedly been turned on her ear in the Black Hole definition of “sue” making “WHAT THE?!” moments common. The “super specailness” itself, the way she rewrote reality in the latest episode, the way she could use some magic spell to cancel Discord’s ill advice, a LOT of stuff is Deus Exed for the girl. If that isn’t a Black Hole Sue, I don’t know what is.
 
“Twilight has numerous flaws, including: OCD, anti social tendencies, self esteem issues, and, of course, a tendency to panic” Her OCD has been a quirk that hasn’t bitten her more than a lecture in Lesson Zero. Antisocial Tendencies? Maybe in E1, since then she’s the literal Element (recently Princess, gag) of Frienship, so that’s a load of crock. Tendency to Panic? The entire setting has a tendency to panic, and unless this tendency has consequences, even if nopony else did, it’s a quirk, not a flaw.
 
Twilight just got an upgrade into at LEAST being a sort of Duchess-In-Training, if not the prospect to take over the reigning monarch (“Meant to rule together”? Pfft, yeah, right, sorry Luna, guess that meant “past tense”, or is it a case of “I didn’t say for how long”?)
 
 
“The only major powerful act Twilight has performed was the Ursa Minor lift in season 1. She wasn’t able to perform age spells, struggled with both teleoportation and the “Flutterwing spell””
 
There, full stop, end this. The Age Spell perhaps was beyond her, but she was countering every other trick Trixie was pulling with her Artifact of Doom, and literally just finished a spell and surpassed the most powerful Unicorn known to the entire setting, past or present. There is NOBODY ON HER TIER, or anywhere near it. That’s God Moding, or is being superior to everybody else ever in terms of power not enough?
 
Sympathetic Sue you may be right about her not being one, though she’s certainly very moody at times for somepony with her background.
 

 
This is all BEFORE the transformation as well. Afterward, well, I don’t have a good feeling. She was popping loop-de-loops at Day 1 in flying skill, Scootaloo being unable to fly despite having been a pegasus since BIRTH.
 
Now as for “generalized sue”? That’s a Sue with a lot of traits of a Mary Sue that come from a number of different sources but doesn’t add up to one of the lesser tropes. In other words, somepony with 120 points in Sueniversity but with an undecided Major, though she minored in Einstein, Black Hole, and God Mode.
 

 
 
Unless the timeline is more screwed up than we think it is, Celestia and Luna were nowhere near that close to Starswirl. The Founding of Equestria took place during Clover’s time, and Celestia and Luna weren’t there. While Luna did seem to have been there (“You even got the bells right!”), that throws him into being a very old pony by that time.

@xTSGx
 
Wow, thats… wow. I need to copy that somewhere for the first time somebrony calls Twi a Mary Sue once S4 starts. :D

@xTSGx
 
Good counterpoint…and you put it better than I could regarding the ‘sue-ness’ of alicorn Twilight :)

@Background Pony  
Princess =/= Mary Sue. Just because she may have a few characteristics of one does not mean she is one. “Fluent in other languages” is another common characteristic, that doesn’t mean that the entire UN is filled with Sues.
 
Einstein Sue definition: “A Mary Sue that is a genius underdog.” On countless occasions (“Swarm of the Century”, “A Canterlot Wedding”, “Lesson Zero”, “Return of Harmony”, “Too Many Pinkies”, “Magic Duel”), Twilight has no idea what the solution to a problem was and had to rely on others (Pinkie, Cadance/Shining Armor, Spike, Celestia, Pinkie again, and Zecora repsectivally) to either solve the problem or giver her the solution. She’s also not exactly an underdog given her position as Element of Magic and the Princess’s student.
 
Black Hole Sue: “A Mary Sue that makes Characters/Events/Reality bend towards their will.” Given Celestia forced her to make friends in Ponyville, Her attempts at fixing things (Parasprites, failsafe spell, time travel, Sombra’s evil door) have failed, and characters act perfectly normal around her indicates she doesn’t “warp” the story. Just because good will always win in MLP doesn’t mean there’s a black hole. Using the logic that bucking up reality constitutes being a Black Hole Sue means Discord, Celestia, Luna, Cadance, Trixie, and Pinkie are all sues as well.
 
Purity Sue: “Incorruptibly Pure Mary Sue.” Twilight has numerous flaws, including: OCD, anti social tendencies, self esteem issues, and, of course, a tendency to panic (which seems to have mellowed out, a good sign of Character Development). TV Tropes also notes that these tend to be “soft-spoken, have a pleasant voice, and be mild-mannered”. Twilight most certainly isn’t soft spoken, her voice is a matter of personal preference, and she isn’t mild-mannered. Fluttershy fits a better definition of this than Twilight ever will. It’s also with noting that Purity Sues almost never overlap with God Mode Sues.
 
God Mode Sue: “Ridiculously overpowered Mary Sue.” The only major powerful act Twilight has performed was the Ursa Minor lift in season 1. She wasn’t able to perform age spells, struggled with both teleoportation and the “Flutterwing spell”, and has yet to defeat a villain using only her “OP’d abilities”. As she has yet to cast a single spell as an alicorn, no information is available to determine if her power level has significantly increased. To argue it has is absurd given the lack of data.
 
Sympethetic Sue: “A Mary Sue who is a Woobie.” Twilight has had a fairly non-tramatic life. Her friends and family love her, she hasn’t suffered any traumatizing experiences that’s had a lasting impact, she’s rarely angsty or depressed, and her hometown and loved ones are perfectly fine. In short, she lacks the tragic backstory, and angst one needs to be a Sympathetic Sue.
 
“Generalized Sue”: “A name created by a commentator on Derpibooru to describe a decision s/he didn’t agree with by the writers.”
 
“You have a very special gift. I don’t think I’ve ever come across a unicorn with your raw abilities.”  
–Princess Celestia.
 
Presumably, Celestia knew Starswiral (how else would she know he never had friends?) and says in season 1 Twilight has more power than him, a full six episodes before his first reference (where I might point out, he’s regarded as “obscure”). In MMC, Twilight didn’t invent a new spell, she invented a new type of magic. Who invented the other types? Well, look at who has wings and a horn for the answer. This also doesn’t discount the possibility of other alicorns (Saddle Arabia has to have a leader), or dead ones (nowhere has it ever been stated, in either canon or Word of God, that alicorns are immortal). I also love how the act of being able to fly suddenly qualifies her for all those Sues.
 
TL;DR: You don’t like Twilicorn. Sorry to hear that. But she doesn’t fit any of the TV Tropes definitions for Mary Sue because she isn’t one.

@Background Pony  
Indeed it is. Are you sure you don’t care? You seem to be lurking a lot for somepony who doesn’t care.

@Background Pony  

@Ebalosus  
Thank you for understanding that some people not only don’t like it, but have sound reasons not to.
 
Do note that just because a character is a Mary Sue (and hence a badly written character, one has to admit) doesn’t mean you have to hate him/her/it. Enjoying something that’s badly written happens, and it speaks to one’s sense of taste if you KNOW it’s badly written, but you recognize that you enjoy it anyway, for reasons that aren’t wholly rational. Those who are shouldn’t be snapped at or told they’re wrong.
 
If you like Twilight’s transformation, fine, but you must understand that there are those who don’t, such as myself. If they’re being rational about it and not just “being a hater”, they have just as much right to complain about it as you do to praise it. Love and tolerate, right?
 
Look up “Guilty Pleasures Song” on Youtube, I think it’s a clever way of expressing it. (Nostalgia Critic video).

@Background Pony
 
Your arguments are sound, and I have nothing to rebut except for the “word of god” part (I don’t usually accept “word of god” as canon).
 
Thus, I concede to you, good sir/madam

@Ebalosus  
An alicorn, apparently, is automatically a “princess”. I would say “prince or princess”, but the current 4 alicorn princesses, 1 snobby non-alicorn prince who never showed up for the coronation status of the royal family is a bit sexist. Forgive the bold, I’m not sure how to do italics here or even if I can.
 
Being an alicorn apparently requires one to be supremely “special” at the very least. Word of God says that it has the traits of all 3 races combined, and the trading cards didn’t circle the Earth Pony bit.
 
Alicorns are automatically royalty, the remaining question being the amount of political power just BEING one has.
 
Celestia is practically worshipped as a goddess. Cadance is a duchess (another term the staff didn’t have the balls to use because, apparently, children are idiots) of a MASSIVE city-state. Luna… well, she’s allegedly Celestia’s equal even though we’ve been shown a lot of evidence to the contrary (she’s also the only princess who seems to have some legitimate, recurring character flaws with some consequence, has mistakes she’s paying for and trying to make amends for with some difficulty, and some redeeming features to boot. Say hi to the well-rounded character, people!)
 
Really the only questions that I think you could be looking for is “are alicorns automagically godlike” and “do alicorns have immortality”. The answers we have are somewhat vague, but the signs point to the affirmative, so the answer to both of those questions is “probably”.

@Background Pony
 
I will concede that you seem to be better versed in the various ‘sue types than myself, thus I cannot argue you down on that.
 
One thing that I’ve noticed whenever I ask the question of “What is an alicorn”, is that nobody seems to answer it, asides from a throwaway statement that is apparently meant to answer everything.
 
To me, the question of what an alicorn is/represents is the most important question raised by the show as of yet. We’re talking about a major paradigm shift for a main character here, thus this question matters.
 
People have responded quite thoroughly with regards to whether twilight is a mary sue, which I will concede cover’s what a mary sue is in this context…but doesn’t cover why or how this relates to this nebulous “alicorn” entity

@King Sombra  
People still call movies bad when they have no impact on what happens in them, and when people stopped complaining about Cadance people assumed they got over it. No, they just stopped complaining about it, that doesn’t mean they like it or changed their minds about it.
 
So if you don’t care, fine, you don’t care. Just DON’T assume that people are fine when they think the plot took a turn for the worse.

@Ebalosus  
Well let’s start that just being a princess is listed on TvTropes, since you like the site, as a “Common Mary Sue trait”. Considering they suddenly had everypony coronate her sparkly butt and there was apparently no confusion whatsoever (even Luna had an excuse, having stories about her), I’m pretty sure she counts as a “princess”… even though MLP:FIM abuses the title so badly that it’s crying and bleeding in the corner begging them to stop.
 
Now, using Mary Sue types, she’s an: Einstein Sue, Black Hole Sue, God Mode Sue, Sympathetic Sue, and Purity Sue. And that’s just the pure types she counts as, not all the various little “I’m so SPECIAL!” things that all add up to what I call a “Generalized Sue”, though with all the traits mentioned, she certainly counts.
 
Before the revelation that she was apparently better than Starswirl, the most accomplished unicorn in at LEAST a millennium, we thought there might be some equally skilled, less connected unicorns out there. After all, SOMEPONY had to write those spells she keeps casting. Nope! Turns out that not only are there none in the modern day, but there are none historically as well! So because of this little promotion, she gains Einstein Sue, God Mode Sue, Purity Sue, and Black Hole Sue, the latter because she literally bent reality with that last spell.
 
Like I said before, the “overly perfect” bit was laconic, or “in few words”. You’re not a very experienced troper if you don’t fully understand the tropes you talk about, Mary Sue included.

Are we still on this?  
Because i passed the point of caring.  
(which i BTW never did because there was never a point for me caring or whining about it anyway)  
have something more adorable:  

@Background Pony
 
Fair enough, though I’d still like to know what the hell an “alicorn” is, and how it pushes Twilight into mary sue territory…

@Ebalosus  
Also, that’s the laconic (ie “not literal”) description. Another laconic description is “an overly perfect character who the story puts overemphasis on the specialness of”. Twilight certainly seems to have the second down pat

@Takashi.0  
Name one, then. Do note the difference between “flaw” and “quirk”.
 
Mary Sue HERSELF, from the Star Trek fanfiction (supposedly a parody), had a flaw (self-doubt) that she “got over” very quickly.

@Background Pony  
Then you need your eyes checked.

@Ebalosus  
I’m failing to see a flaw in 3 of them that they haven’t “gotten over”.