@Rpground 
Maybe in Equestria as on Earth, pirates are the common enemies of all?

Well the problem here is obvious…
 
Pirates are monsters.

Easy contradiction to resolve, the cow comic takes place before the pirate comic. I mean, the show doesn’t have chronological order, so why should the comic?

>>Celestia has been unquestioned because she is the perfect plot  
aaaaand i stopped reading right there.  
Suggestive  
||  
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Obviously this was a political comment about “Stand Your Ground” laws. Strongly proponing them, even.

@Background Pony #6E91  
Absolutely. It was an excellent experiance talking with you. See ya. :)

@CronoM
 
Anyway, I’m off on a trip and probably won’t be online for the next couple days so I just wanted to say it was a nice discussion to have. Thanks for engaging.

@CronoM
 
Yep. I guess I can understand where you stand better now. And I guess we can agree on some points.
 
“Rewatch the movie then. Sunset’s natural open-hearted nature towards her friends being wiser then Twilight’s current understanding was one of the main points of the movie”
 
That’s fair enough. I guess I didn’t see it quite like that because all the characters in the show are given stories where they share lessons and wisdoms in their own ways. The way I saw it, because Sunset was sort of looking from the outside she was the one best able to see the tension building in the group while Twilight was too focused on the counter-spell and everyone else in making it to the finals.
 
“Celestia has been unquestioned because she is the perfect plot tool… she has no real identity in the show, and Twilight and the others never question her
 
This is something I was going to point out: Twilight doesn’t seem to be the only one who would follow Celestia to extreme extents. The mane 6 and ponies in general (and even a few other creatures) seem to have so much reverence for her and the only one I recall ever questioning her directly in the show itself was Luna.
 
There’s a reason ‘Celestia is a god ponies worship’ is a popular theme and headcanon.
 
“even if she does something as seemingly stupid as sending Discord to capture Tirek”
 
Well, i suppose that’s no more ‘stupid’ than the very idea of reforming someone as unpredictable as Discord.
 
I mean, the whole point of bringing him to their side was for his powerful magic to be used to help. And he was almost doing just that before stabbing them all in the back :p
 
“Celestia didn’t even tell Twilight not to tell them about Discord, Twilight just felt keeping them completely in the dark was easier for following Celestia’s orders, despite the risks to her friends not even knowing who one of the two villains were”
 
Could Twilight warn about Discord without telling them all about how he had sided with Tirek? An interesting idea.
 
Anyway, I guess the main reason this whole issue was never adressed is that it would open the ‘is following Celestia’s orders even the right thing to do’ can of worms in the middle of an already pretty packed finale.
 
The more we talk though, the more I realize I WOULD like an episode dealing with that. Here’s hope.

That said, I still think it makes a lot of sense considering the latter basically shaped the purple pony princess.
 
Sense? Yes. Healthy? Relatable? Respectable? Not even close. Twilight is extremely weak-willed and hyper dependent toward’s Celestia to the extreme. The fact she weighs that connection with Celestia over anyone else is an extremely odd character trait to give a character. Its a stretch to call Twilight a protagonist since she’s more invested in pleasing Celestia then the general good.
 
regardless of what one thinks of Celestia, she is portrayed by the show as the closest thing there is to perfection and wisdom
 
Yeah, except when Sunset through a wrench into Twilight’s, and by extension Celestia’s, line of thinking up till now.
 
Keep in mind that we KNEW Celestia was more ‘chessmaster manipulator’ then ‘Zecora-like wise’ from the beginning, she lied about Nightmare Moon existing to manipulate Twilight like a puppet from S1E1. Celestia’s ‘wisdom’ is something more along the lines that we want to believe more the something that actually exists. She’s not evil by any means, but the only person she cares about getting credit and praise is Twilight, she really doesn’t care if she’s risking a city by not helping herself or not allowing Twilight’s heroic friends to help. In her confession comic, her rationale is perfectly canon with the show, but its also disturbing on how little she thinks about the importance of the people and her friends when compared to making Twilight a princess and a hero.
 
It would, however, be interesting to see Twilight being put in a position where she was shown to have an actual disagreement with Celestia in the future and perhaps confront her about it.
 
God, that would be the day. We can dream right?
 
The most interesting potential aspect about Human Twilight shown at the end of Rainbow Rocks is we’d potentially be meeting a Twilight Sparkle with an actual spine of her own.
 
Celestia has been unquestioned because she is the perfect plot tool…she has no real identity in the show, and Twilight and the others never question her, even if she does something as seemingly stupid as sending Discord to capture Tirek. (Although a few of them have disagreed with her before, like Luna about the whole Princess Twilight thing, or RD when she wanted to send her to the human world alone)
 
for doing what she was told to do to protect them. As far as Twilight knew, telling them about what was going on could put them in more danger.
 
As far as Twilight knew, Twilight wasn’t even supposed to think about how little sense that made, and she didn’t think like a good little puppet. A true friend there, that Twilight.
 
But seriously, she was only asked to not tell them about the magic transfer. Celestia didn’t even tell Twilight not to tell them about Discord, Twilight just felt keeping them completely in the dark was easier for following Celestia’s orders, despite the risks to her friends not even knowing who one of the two villains were. If she actually didn’t think of that, then I’ve got to quote Will Smith to address Twilight
 
What would you say to Twilight Will?
 
Thank you Will.
 
It IS a kid’s show after all.
 
Half of the cast, especially RD and Spike, fall under the catagory of the trope ‘Can’t get away with nothin’”. Twilight, on the other hand, lives in a world with no consequence. If you want to use ‘its a kids show’ as an excuse, at least provide me with some consistancy. Otherwise, it sounds more like your talking out of your ass when trying to excuse Twilight.
 

 
I don’t think the movie implied Sunset knows more about those things than Twilight
 
Rewatch the movie then. Sunset’s natural open-hearted nature towards her friends being wiser then Twilight’s current understanding was one of the main points of the movie. Sunset was teaching Twilight after Twilight had her nervous breakdown after being locked up, curling into a ball from not understanding squat about TRULY trusting and resptecting her friends. Twilight loves her friends but she hasn’t respected them in a long time, something a few other fans pointed out to me and I realized it was true. Its the reason Sunset was given more ‘narrative’ main character status then Twilight ever was, while Celestia gave Twilight a more ‘designated’ main character status.
 
For one, using magic to arrest/stop the bulls doesn’t require hurting them so it makes any objection moot?
 
Alicorns, and thus princesses, have overwhelming magical power. The second that magic is so overwhelming to her ears it sounds like ‘subjugation’, whether it be painless or not, it sounds really, really bad. Yes, even against criminals, cause they are non magical foes around the human pony level. You and me would do it, cause image be damned, the bulls are being destuctive assholes…but we, in contrast, have spines. Twilight needs that.
 
Third, this ’not using magic on citizens of Equestria’ came out of nowhere.
 
No it didn’t. YOU explained how Twilight got ahold of that idea remember? Just like how she was ‘put on the spot’ by Spike’s words in Rainbow Rocks, she was ‘put on the spot’ by AJ’s words, and was left to rationalize how bad this situation sounded, by AJ’s words, to the likes of a toolish purple princess. It sounded like unfair, royal, magical subjugation. Had AJ said something different, Twilight would not have froze about the idea of using magic on them.
 
you bring up the Crystal Empire as an example, but wasn’t the whole point that by the end Twilight realized she couldn’t save it herself and had to give Spike the heart regardless of Celestia’s orders?
 
Yeah, and then in Twilight’s Kingdom, she uses the knowledge she gained from that city risking experiance…..and just does what she says all the way until they are captured from following Celestia’s orders even if common sense makes it obvious she shouldn’t keep them out of the know for their safety. The whole point of ‘save the city alone’ was on how selfish and senseless it was, and she didn’t learn the lesson. Twilight made the city risking lesson absolutely pointless cause she didn’t learn a damn thing…….let that sink in for a second.
 
A better question would be why Celestia would use an entire Empire as a test? I suppose she knew what was gonna happen but still XD
 
That’s the million doller question isn’t it? Luna definitely didn’t think it was a smart idea, she sounded completely disgruntled by Celestia’s insane line of thinking. Perhaps she’s not as ‘portrayed as closest to perfection and wisdom’ as you might think.
 
The big episodes left a lot of room for intentional interpretation and doubt, leading up to Rainbow Rocks where they take all the false morals of the S3 and S4 finales, throw them into a ditch, and pull the trigger. Its sort of a plot reversal. They outright mock the princess episodes and the whole Princess Twilight concept.

@CronoM
 
Oh, one more thing:
 
you bring up the Crystal Empire as an example, but wasn’t the whole point that by the end Twilight realized she couldn’t save it herself and had to give Spike the heart regardless of Celestia’s orders?
 
A better question would be why Celestia would use an entire Empire as a test? I suppose she knew what was gonna happen but still XD

@CronoM
 
Okay. First of all, I do apologize for even using the word bias, yo are right in that I shouldn’t have worded it like that. So, you said a lot so I’ll try to address some of what you said, guess?
 
I notice you seem to have a problem with Twilight relying on Celestia a lot and I understand where you are coming from. That said, I still think it makes a lot of sense considering the latter basically shaped the purple pony princess. Moreso, regardless of what one thinks of Celestia she is portrayed by the show as the closest thing there is to perfection and wisdom, so even when her advice seems unintuitive, it’s likely gonna be presented as the right thing to do.
 
It would, however, be interesting to see Twilight being put in a position where she was shown to have an actual disagreement with Celestia in the future and perhaps confront her about it. It could be an interesting way to push her character, though I’m not sure how they’d handle it.
 
“For example, if the other 5 learned that Twilight kept it a secret that Discord had gone over to Tirek’s side partially due for Celestia’s terrible advice to keep things hush-hush, it would take a long time for them to forgive her”
 
I’m not sure if they would resent her for doing what she was told to do to protect them. As far as Twilight knew, telling them about what was going on could put them in more danger.
 
And when she saw her friends captured, she did what she had to do to save them before they went all rainbowy-kick-butt together. I don’t think it would make much sense for them to be angry at her after all that was said and done.
 
Even if it did, lingering stuff like that is usually trimmed down unless it has a point in order to make the story flow simpler and smoother. It IS a kid’s show after all.
 
“She doesn’t presume to know more about magic and friendship then Twilight, even if the latter is true”
 
I don’t think the movie implied Sunset knows more about those things than Twilight, but you are very right in that she was in a position to help (and eventually did). The movie did a very interesting thing: it showed how different kinds of people are under different kinds of pressure. Just as the negative pressure from those arround her kept Sunset from stepping up to help, the positive pressure from those arround kept Twilight from asking for help.
 
I would think that this is a great thing to show, actually: no matter where you end up or how much you achieve, there will be problems and people’s expectations to deal with. All in all, I would like to see more interaction between those two characters as it seems obvious to me that Sunset and Twilight could learn quite a bit from each other.
 
As for the last comic: it’s less that the general idea of Twilight not wanting to abuse power is wrong and more that they handled it poorly:
 

@Background Pony #A1DC  
Also keep in mind what I am saying regarding Twilight Sparkle does not include Twilight after Sunset taught her her judgement was wrong when they were locked up in Rainbow Rocks. When she realized she couldn’t stand up to Adagio, she DID ask for Sunset’s help. That’s one of the reasons why I loved the theme change the movie gave. That personality is more akin to the gutsy Twilight from the left comic and the person who charged at a hydra after wondering ‘what would a brave pony like RD do in this situation’. The more Twilight shuts out her friend’s wisdom and only listens to Celestia, the worse off she is.

@Background Pony #A1DC  
And don’t forget….your OWN excuse for Twilight’s actions in Rainbow Rocks was that Spike put Twilight on the spot to make her think that way. An excuse that would of only worked if her values and judgement were already out of whack by being put in such a position of ‘princess of friendship’ so quickly and not having a back bone to think for herself.
 
Well, what happens in the top-right panel, with EMPHASIS no less?
 
AJ:“I have a Fancy Magical Princess of Equestria on my side”.
 
This is post S4 Twilight, who is a bit more of a tool then earlier Twilight was, as unfortunately harsh as that sounds. AJ just imprinted in Twilight’s head that she is a princess representing all of Equestria who wields great alicorn magic. The line of thinking in a weak-willed protagonist like Twilight would be ‘wait…if I abused my magic to overwhelm these non-magical criminals, it would make the royalty of Equestria look like brutes that solve the smallest problems with their overwhelming amount of magic. I’d be betraying the position Celestia has given me! Can I take that risk?’ Twilight has consistantly proved in the show that she has difficulty taking the risk of dissapointing Celestia for even the most dangerous situations.
 
By the EXACT same excuse you gave Twilight for her actions in Rainbow Rocks, you proved what she was doing here was completely in-character for post S4, pre-Rainbow Rocks, Twilight Sparkle.

@Background Pony #A1DC  
I wouldn’t go around throwing the “bias” accusation so hastily and immaturely. Your stance should be able to stand on its own. I want this to be a civil discussion, not an argument.
 
By accusing me of being biased, you are putting bias on the table. That means if ANYTHING you say that I am wrong about is something that is, in turn, skewed and doesn’t fit with what actually happened on your end, how can you possibly know you’re not projecting your own bias? You can’t. At least not right away.
 
I could accuse you of obvious bias, you could accuse me of bias, and we’d go around and around like chickens with their head cut off, resolving nothing and never finding solid ground. That sounds rather pointless don’t you think?
 
In other words, lets continue the discussion while giving our best stance on the subject while still assuming everything we say could be wrong. Being open-minded about your own opinion is always a good step. Agreed?
 
“Twilight had been called BECAUSE no one else had any idea what was going on”
 
Correct, they didn’t have the needed information about the Sirens. I never said otherwise. But Sunset came up with the idea of the counterspell after she learned what Twilight told them about the Sirens. There is a difference between needing her and needing her to do everything. Correct?
 
“and went to CH with relative confidence since she had some info.”
 
Confidence over someone else’s idea? The second she gave them the info, she started to realize she didn’t know how to stop them. She was racking her brain and pacing nervously, and then Sunset came up with the idea. When Twilight thought that was a great idea, she admitted to her merit that she didn’t know any such counterspell. There was no confidence.
 
….Now to Twilight’s defense, Spike built up Twilight’s ability to come up with a spell as part of the reason she became a princess, so Spike kind of put Twilight on the spot. (NOTE: I wrote that before reading everything you said, so I’m glad we are on the same page at least on Spike’s impact)
 
HOWEVER, the entire school and beyond were in danger of being enslaved. Peer pressure and being put on a pedastal is an excuse for children, not for adults. Not when lives are in the balance. for She was just as in character as when she was in Crystal Empire or Twilight’s Kingdom, following Celestia’s idea that everything was for herself to solve, even at high risk to the people and her friends.
 
“And for the record, neither Sunset nor the others actually offered to help on the spell directly. They just asked how she was doing.”
 
The other 5 know jack about magic and Sunset has self-confidence issues. She doesn’t presume to know more about magic and friendship then Twilight, even if the latter is true. Even though Sunset is in many ways her ‘sempai’, Sunset is too unsure of herself when it comes to matters of being a princess or other such stuff. Sunset doesn’t live for proving herself for Celestia anymore in her own aggressive way, but she still had to swallow a massive humility pill.
 
Either way, that is no excuse for Twilight not to ask Celestia’s genius former student. Lives were on the line. The movie even showed Twilight knew Sunset could help, but when people were in danger, she stopped herself from asking Sunset for help at the last second. Perfectly in-canon with Meghan’s portrayal of her.
 
This is Twilight Sparkle we are talking about here. She has only had friends for a year, and unlike Sunset, she doesn’t understand other’s feelings very well. Twilight is naturally kind and has learned many lessons, but they don’t come to her naturally. She is kind but she is NOT an empathetic person. Do not expect her to be a heroic realist, cause she is not that worldly. Most of her life revolves around pleasing Celestia, an unfortunate fact. Twilight’s pride is NOT the same kind of pride that people like RD and Trixie had early on. It is a subtle type of pride that stems from hyper-dependency, that forces her to accept her Celestia-given responsibilities to the point where she ignores the safety of her friends just to live up to that pride.
 
I don’t think Twilight is very in-character here so I don’t know how to answer this
 
So you were UNABLE to answer the question, despite this being perfectly in character with Crystal Empire, Twilight’s Kingdom, and early Rainbow Rocks Twilight Sparkle.
 
No offense, but I figured as much. I had hoped you would be able to answer that question even in theory, cause you KNOW Twilight has been given plot armor dozens of times in the show before when she makes horrendous judgements.
 
If this was a fair portrayal of Twilight, there wouldn’t be tons of people complaining it’s utter BS.
 
That’s because this scenario was given purposely to play to Twilight’s ’ princess responsibility’ weakness, and also purposefully removing her ‘karma houdini’ plot armor that the show gives in-show Twilight so her flaws are pointed out repeatedly. For example, if the other 5 learned that Twilight kept it a secret that Discord had gone over to Tirek’s side partially due for Celestia’s terrible advice to keep things hush-hush, it would take a long time for them to forgive her. How much does Twilight value her friends lives? Enough to give up her magic? Sure. Enough to disobey Celestia’s will? I WISH. Her inaction here, given the role of a ‘princess with a castle and title’, is a lot more believable and forgivable then her betrayal of her friends in Twilight’s Kingdom. And tons of people have complained about her portrayal in that episode and Crystal Empire, and her un-fun high-horse personality in S4 in general. The adventure with the pirates takes place before her role as princess is given a lot of emphasis or build-up. Her nervous but loyal and gutsy portrayal in the comic represents Twilight’s more noble aspects far more then S4 did. By the time S4 was done, Twilight was a different character.

@CronoM
 
“Incorrect. She was not under any pressure to do this alone since the former student of Celestia, Sunset, would of helped in a heartbeat and she knew that. In fact, it was Sunset’s idea to begin with. The only one convincing them that Twilight should do it alone was herself.”
 
That’s not entirely true. Hence why I said your reasoning seems biased.
 
Twilight had been called BECAUSE no one else had any idea what was going on, and went to CH with relative confidence since she had some info. When she got there everyone put total faith on her which made it hard for her to admit she wasn’t coming up with anything, especially since Spike had done nothing but brag about her recent accomplishments since she got there - which clearly made Twilight a tad uncomfortable.
 
That’s what motivated Twilight not to ask for help: she felt like it was on her shoulders to have all the answers they seeked, but she didn’t. And for the record, neither Sunset nor the others actually offered to help on the spell directly. They just asked how she was doing.
 
Spike’s bragging and lines like “we’re so lucky you’re here’, ‘we don’t know what we’d do if you hadn’t come’ are meant to put Twilight’s position in perspective. She wasn’t being as overly-confifdent or prideful as you imply. She went through with it because the alternative was letting everyone down which eventually happened anyway, and a lesson was learned)
 
“Answer me this question straight: If this comic was in the show, would Twilight be criticized for her thinking about 3 times? Yes or no?”
 
I don’t think Twilight is very in-character here so I don’t know how to answer this. In order to keep her from ending the conflict too soon they pushed her to take this extreme position that doesn’t fit the Twilight in the show.
 
Twilight isn’t violent or hot-headed, but she has never held back like this. She wouldn’t let her friends get beaten because of some ethical code that appeared out of thin air and was never expained or mentioned by anyone before. It was clearly made up for this issue’s convenience.
 
If this was a fair portrayal of Twilight, there wouldn’t be tons of people complaining it’s utter BS. Cook has this problem of making her characters fit the story she wants, rather than the other way arround. This goes for all of the cast.
 
I don’t have as many problems with Twilight’s portrayal in the last comic though. She’s acting like a decently reasonable and competent leader so far and encouraging others to contribute. It’s both sides (builders and deer) that are being unreasonable and I expect the mane 6 to play the part of bridge between them.

@Background Pony #A1DC  
Answer me this question straight: If this comic was in the show, would Twilight be criticized for her thinking about 3 times? Yes or no?
 
Heck in the most recent comic, the comics reveal they are mocking Twilight’s current princess scenario outright.  
>>817187  
They finally said, ‘screw subtlety’.

@Background Pony #A1DC  
“(and we see that she was right about that. Everyone did expect her to figure things out)”
 
Incorrect. She was not under any pressure to do this alone since the former student of Celestia, Sunset, would of helped in a heartbeat and she knew that. In fact, it was Sunset’s idea to begin with.
 
The only one convincing them that Twilight should do it alone was herself. She assured them she could do it. Sunset even tried to help Twi realize she didn’t have to feel this way during the night scene, but when Twi tried to call Sunset out for help, she hesitated and prioritized her responsibility and pride. She’s the ‘princess of friendship’ afterall, she should be able to do this alone.(rolls eyes)
 
Time and setting has everything to do with portrayal here. Her friends point out how flawed her reasoning 2 or 3 times during the comic, its intentional that the readers would not side with Twi. In the show, this sort of thing would allow Twilight to do this stuff with almost zero criticism. Its as simple as that. It doesn’t take a genius to realize the difference, its obvious.

@CronoM
 
Sorry, but I think you are way overthinking things, and with biased reasoning.
 
What happened in Rainbow Rocks was that Twilight thought she was expected to solve everything (and we see that she was right about that. Everyone did expect her to figure things out), so when she couldn’t do it she had trouble letting everyone down, as most people would.
 
What Sunset does is remind her that she doesn’t have to do it all alone.
 
That has nothing to do with her lack of any action and OOC portrayal here.

What am I looking at?

Welp. That tears it. Katie Cook confirmed for Pony Tite Kubo.

*makes sense

@Diaz  
This issue is more ‘time of setting’ oriented. Her high horse wasn’t nearly as big in post S3 when compared to post S4(still prior to Rainbow Rocks).
 
Fluttershy’s issue…is more about each writers perception; to exactly what degree of stage fright Fluttershy has.
 
However, to their credit, one of the many things they did right in Rainbow Rocks is show an example of what does and what doesn’t trigger it…
 
As long as Fluttershy doesn’t feel like she’s in the spotlight, she can perform. Backup vocalist and tamborine player? Athlete among dozens to hundreds of other athletes? She’s fine, and that kind of makes. She visualizes eyes surrounding her and her alone. But a spotlight position while performing, playing or singing? Not a chance.

And no one questioned why Fluttershy had stage fright despite that she’s in the Olympics?

@Background Pony #BC52  
Good times, but just like everything that’s great. There’s only so far you can stretch it, before it becomes drab.

ah, I remember the days when these comics were pretty awesome