Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

Background Pony #1F81
@Meanlucario
Obama was doing an interview talking about the military response to ISIS. He wore a tan suit during the interview (he’d only wore black/blue up until then), abf Fox News and other Conservatives lost their minds bevuase they thought it was “disrespectful and insulting” he was wearing a bright colored suit while talking about terrorism
Yeah really was as lame as it sounds
marinus18

@Background Pony #1F81
And the over-the-top weirdness has only gotten worse since then. They really are in a panic trying to find something to smear Tim Walz on including petting another person’s dog or being too happy to become vice-president. It now really feels like the whole “cancel culture” stuff was projection to begin with. I mean I have seen the far right go crazy and ban stupid stuff but I haven’t really seen it from the left.
Ciaran
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Senior Moderator
君場森生きる
@marinus18
The big political points the GOP seems to be trying to focus on in their advertisements where I live are almost entirely focused on:
• Tim Waltz hugs his daughter
• has a son that is proud of him
• has a dog that likes him
• served for 24 years in the national guard
On the other hand, their attacks on Kamala Harris have been … let me get the flier I pulled out of the mail box last night …
• Milwaukee, where the GOP had their convention, is a horrible city and Harris is a horrible person because she had a rally in Milwaukee, where the GOP had their convention. Because only horrible people go to Milwaukee. Where the GOP convention was just a few weeks ago.
• FOXCONN was Trump’s idea and it was great for Wisconsin and he’ll do more of that to Wisconsin when he’s president (note: it was very much not great for Wisconsin.)
• She is childless (she actually has 2 kids, the same kids the GOP is criticizing in their attacks on Tim Waltz)
• Tammy Baldwin is running a “dirty campaign” for senate because she quoted the person running against her
• Also, Harris is NOT going to eliminate social security … which appears to have made the GOP extremely angry, and they think we should be angry about that, too.
• Also also (just saw a tiny corner of the ad with this part on it, and found this part particularly weird) Project 2025 was the Democrat’s doing, entirely and without question it was all the Democrats trying to make Conservatives look bad because that’s not the kind of thing Republicans would ever do. The very idea that Conservatives would ever do anything like Project 2025 is .. “Absolutely Ridiculous And Abysmal” … even though most of the people heading it were ex-Trump officials, or literally wrote the foreword to the project’s leader’s new book
small
It’s … confusing.
I wish I hadn’t torn the ad up - I’d love to scan it in and share it because it just sounds crazy and I know if someone told me the Trump/Vance campaign in Wisconsin is running against Harris/Waltz by criticizing their families and pets and something a Senator said, and praising a complete fucking disaster that will live in infamy for decades that the state will be using millions of dollars from a new MicroSoft datacenter to try to recoup as an example of “good things Trump did for Wisconsin”. But tear it up I did, into itsy bitsy pieces before I threw it away.
But, maybe that’s why the advertisement had the word “TRUTH” across the top of it. So we wouldn’t question the “TRUTH”.
The funny thing for me - not funny “ew” but funny “ha ha” is that the whole Baldwin thing the GOP seems to be apoplectic about is that the Baldwin ad just plays Hovde saying that being a single parent is “a direct path to a life of poverty that leads to higher drug rates”, followed by someone replying;
“What is wrong with this guy?”
It all kind of feels like the GOP can’t handle having a woman ever repeat back to them what they just said, and then ask; “What is wrong with you?”
The next time I get one of those (and oh my god I will get one of those for sure - they’re arriving by the dozens every week now) I’ll scan it in to share.
marinus18

@Ciaran
They have to resort to weird things cause they can’t win on merit. When it comes to policy Harris/Walz will win that hands down without question so they have to stoke up culture wars or create some kind of scandal but they are not succeeding.
It’s not just a woman. It’s also having a confident and defiant democrat party. The democrats especially the Obama and Clinton types are very appeasing and apologize any time they are called a “communist”. Harris shrugs off their usual attacks and Walz throws it back in their face.
Ciaran
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Senior Moderator
君場森生きる
In terms of policies that actually improve people’s lives what do republicans have?
Abolished slavery, helped pass the 14th, 15th, and 19th amendments, established the current US Interstate Highway system, fought for and overwhelmingly supported the 1964 Civil Rights Act, weakened the Ku Klux Klan, established NASA, fought for school desegregation, and established the Environmental Protection Agency.
Also, I think Reagan should arguably be credited with ending the Cold War, although that is admittedly a much harder sell than the others.
Since those though, it’s all been Trickle Down (called Voodoo Economics by one of their own presidents), destroying unions, and funneling all the money they can into the super rich. Also investigating Hunter Biden, BENGAZI!, the Vietnam war, the Gulf War, the war in Afghanistan, the war in Iraq, the invasion of Panama, repealing access to abortion, gutting the 1964 Civil Rights Act, gutting the Voting Rights Act of 1965 …
The 2001 Patriot Act …
Abolishing Net Neutrality …
I’m sure I’m missing some things that the Republicans have done to improve things. And some things they’ve done to “improve” things.
Right now though, they seem to be specializing in manufacturing outrage, protecting sexual predators, and hating on traditional and loving families.
marinus18

@Ciaran
All of those are long in the past. I was talking about current republican policies.
Reagan didn’t “end” the cold war. It came to an end due to a Soviet military coup that he was not involved with in any way.
The republicans didn’t fight for school desegregation. In the 1960’s the racial lines weren’t really there and both republicans and democrats for the south were pro-racism. It was largely Ronald Reagan that drew racial lines in reaction to democrat Johnson that the republican party is the party for whites. With Richard Nixon while he got a lot of votes from the south it wasn’t by an overwhelming ratio at all.
And what do you mean they overwhelmingly supported the civil rights act. No southern republicans supported it.
We do know their policies as they are summarized in project 2025 which is to establish a theocratic dictatorship and impose draconian laws on woman and LGBTQ people. To label everything that is romantic but not reproductive as “porn”, to destroy the neutrality of agencies and so on.
Ciaran
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Senior Moderator
君場森生きる
All of those are long in the past. I was talking about current republican policies.
I allow myself the liberty to be sarcastic when it seems appropriate. That you utterly missed the point is deeply telling.
And what do you mean they overwhelmingly supported the civil rights act
The Democrats were the ones who filibustered that act - not the Republicans. And more Democrats voted AGAINST it than Republicans (23 Democrats voted against Cloture as compared to only 6 Republicans). Without strong Republican support it never would have come to a vote:
Original House version:
Democratic Party: 152–96 (61–39%)
Republican Party: 138–34 (80–20%)
Cloture in the Senate:[36]
Democratic Party: 44–23 (66–34%)
Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%)
Senate version:
Democratic Party: 46–21 (69–31%)
Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%)
Senate version, voted on by the House:
Democratic Party: 153–91 (63–37%)
Republican Party: 136–35 (80–20%)
Significantly more Democrats voted AGAINST it than Republicans, and without the support of the majority of Republicans it never would have passed.
Also, while we’re wandering down memory lane, please permit me to introduce you to Thomas H. Kuchel, without whom Medicare, the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, the Interstate Highway Act, and several National Parks would not have happened. Also read up on what he did to make the 1964 Civil Rights Act successful. It is true that it was ultimately political suicide for him, as his party changed its stripes in the 60’s.
The republicans didn’t fight for school desegregation
Following the 1954 SCOTUS decision in Brown v. Topeka Board of Education, President Richard Nixon (Republican) declared Brown to be “right in both constitutional and human terms” and put in place a process to carry out the Court’s mandate, creating a cabinet level committee to manage the desegregation of schools.
August 14, 1970, he went to New Orleans, knowing that he was acting against the wishes of his Vice President. Agnew reportedly told Nixon; “Half the people there will be black, half will be white. Pictures will be taken. When the schools open, there will be blood running through the streets of the South, and if you go, this will be blood on your hands. This is not your issue. This is the issue of the liberals who have pushed for desegregation. Let them have it. Stay away.”
But Nixon went.
As a part of that meeting, Nixon said:
The highest court of the land has spoken. The unitary school system must replace the dual school system throughout the United States. [If the widely predicted difficulties take place,] those who suffer will be primarily the next generation, the students, the children in the school district involved. . . . We believe, all of us, in law and order and justice. We believe in enforcing the law. But I also believe that leadership in an instance like this requires some preventive action. . . .
To me, one of the most encouraging experiences that I have had since taking office was to hear each one of these leaders from the Southern states speak honestly about the problems, not glossing over the fact that there were very grave problems, telling us what needed to be done from the federal standpoint, telling us also what they were doing at the local level. It was encouraging to see this kind of leadership.
Time will tell how successful we have been, but I do know this: As a result of these advisory committees being set up, we are going to find that in many districts the transition will be orderly and peaceful, whereas otherwise it could have been the other way. And the credit will go to these outstanding Southern leaders.
Reagan didn’t “end” the cold war
Wow, you didn’t even read what I posted, did you?
We do know their policies as they are summarized in project 2025 which is to establish a theocratic dictatorship and impose draconian laws on woman and LGBTQ people …
Agreed. I think that’s obvious to everyone who has the eyes to see. But please don’t tar all of history with your hatred of what is happening under their banner today.
Please remember to vote, assuming you are a voter in the USA.
marinus18

@Ciaran
There were significantly more democrats elected in the deep south. That doesn’t change the fact that none of the republicans from the deep south voted for desegregation.
I find it interesting you don’t mention the best republican president Theodore Roosevelt. He really made anti-trust enforcement a thing and created the idea of the welfare state. Without that foundation the New Deal could have never succeeded. He is a greater president than even Lincoln cause he actually went against the megacorps.
I did read what you posted about Reagan. I just disagree with it. I don’t think the fact that a military coup happened under president Bush is something Reagan should get credit for. I also don’t think Reagan should get credit for Gorbachov’s logical decisions that the Soviet empire was untennatable. Just like how Biden should not be blamed for Poetin’s decision to invade Ukraine.
Also Nixon created the war on drugs which kept the segregation in place and he also gave workers medals for attacking and beating up peaceful protestors. He also enabled a genocide in Bangladesh and helped organize a coup in Chile. He also broke the law and spied on his political opponents and then abused his power to try to cover it up. I think Nixon is the second worst president in recent American history. With Trump being the first and Bush being the third.
Nixon also layed the foundation that Reagan and Trump would build on which is discarding all principles and seeing politics as purely transactional. He did what was political advantageous to him without any adherence to consistency which both Reagan and Trump did as well.
With the parties I feel they have changed so much giving them credit for past things shouldn’t matter cause they are not the same party anymore. I give the democrats credit for the New Deal cause they still hold those policies and ideals. The republicans don’t hold the ideals of Lincoln or Roosevelt in the slightest so I don’t give them credit for it. The current republican party was founded by Richard Nixon and build by Ronald Reagan.
marinus18

@Ciaran
My main question regarding the civil rights act is where those republicans where from. The civil rights act was along state lines, not party lines. Almost all the democrats in non-south states also voted for the civil rights act. A difference though is that 3 democrats from the deep south voted for the civil right’s act while no republican from the deep south did. Though that also makes sense since there were more democrats from the deep south to start with.
But I just don’t think we should give the republicans credit since they were elected in the northern states.
Of course there was strong republican support. The overwhelming majority of people from California or Michigan were against segregation. I think the democrats should get more credit since the main one pushing for it was a Texas democrat rather than a Californian republican.
marinus18

@Ciaran
What democrats need to do more is encourage people to vote locally. Republicans have a deeply motivated minority so in low turn out elections like local ones they can punch far above their weight.
marinus18

One of the worst programs that republicans have been engaged in has been tax funded private schools which shouldn’t exist. No private school should get tax payer money period especially not by taking money from public schools. Private schools were largely created for segregation purposes (Which Nixon did nothing to stop) and now for religious indoctrination.
Tax payer funded private religious schools is actually something the founders opposed. It was against the constitution as Thomas Jefferson said so. That he said there is a wall between church and state. The US is a secular state and so schools should be secular.
The destruction of general education kind of shows their true nature. Destroying universal public education is the first step in most authoritarian regimes. Dump people down so they don’t question you.
Ciaran
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Senior Moderator
君場森生きる
@marinus18
I have no idea why you are trying to start a fight with me about something like this.
Did Republicans strongly support [edit: because you’re spamming now] the 1964 Civil Rights Act? Very much yes.
Were there Republicans who fought for school desegregation? Very much yes.
You can’t hate ALL Republicans and justify it because of JUST THOSE Republicans, completely ignoring what the party AT LARGE did or didn’t do way the fuck back in the 60’s. Is the modern Republican party completely unrecognizable and insane? Absolutely yes. But you can’t blame all Republicans throughout history because one group of Republicans in the 60’s were assholes, while the rest of their party was doing the right thing and fighting Democrats to get things like the 1964 Civil Rights Act passed, or actually using the Federal Government to make sure that the SCOTUS’s decision on school desegregation became the law of the land.
Yet, somehow, once again, you seem to be attacking me simply because I dare to say that in the past some Republicans did some good things.
Fine - hate me for saying that. I don’t care.
marinus18

@Ciaran
I don’t hate you. I am just saying I find it a weak argument cause like I said segregation was along state lines, not party lines. Democrats in non-segregated states also supported desegregation and republicans in segregated states opposed desegregation.
I’m not attacking you. Saying I disagree is not attacking. I also said why I dislike Nixon and Reagan too. Reagan was weak and incompetent and Nixon was deprived of any consistent moral whatsoever. Nixon just did what would serve him politically like rewarding workers for attacking peaceful protestors or supporting genocides and coups. Reagan destroyed the middle class and pushed the notion of Christian idealism over objective reality and popularized fearmongering.
The current republican party is downright evil but that didn’t just happen out of nowhere. Nixon, Reagan and Bush were the main ones that made it that way. Just like how Roosevelt, Johnson and Clinton made the modern democrat party.
marinus18

@Ciaran
Yeah and my question to that was where those people were from. No republican from the deep south signed on to it. All those that signed on were from non-segregated states. That is why Johnson should get credit as he was from a segregated state.
marinus18

@Ciaran
It wasn’t that the average republican was against segregation and the average democrat was for it. All republicans from segregated states and almost all the democrats from segregated states were in favor of segregation.
It wasn’t a partisan thing. It was the segregated states being outvoted by non-segregated states.
BlitztheDragon
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So I was looking at the latest polling averages for the presidential race on 538, and I see that right after the DNC the averages plateaued, and are now narrowing again. Now, keeping the “polling is broken” suggestions in mind, I just find it interesting that it’s starting to look like Harris’s rise in the polls has been arrested and is now declining.
Currently trying to figure out what to make of it. It might be nothing, or a temporary dip, or even just noise I dunno. I know among leftist spaces most enthusiasm for Harris was gone after the DNC snubbed Palestinian-American delegates for speaking time and made a massive rightward pivot on immigration. A big part of me worries that Dems found a way to knock the wind out of their sails by prematurely throwing their left flank off the bus to once again chase hypothetical disaffected Republicans.
Edit to add: I share this because I’m genuinely curious as any other observation folks here might have. And again it could just be noise.
marinus18

@BlitztheDragon
I unfortunately think you are right. Throwing leftists under the bus was dumb as going center won’t attract republicans. Many want something fresh and exciting so going all in on being left wing will attract them.
Natry
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@BlitztheDragon
There’s usually an enthusiasm bump after a convention that goes away after a while. Harris’ entrance might have generated a bigger enthusiasm bump than the convention this time.
marinus18

@Natry
But snubbing the palistinian protestors like that was a REALLY bad move. I myself don’t get why the democrats don’t just give in and admit that Israel is a massive liability on every level and just stop supporting them.
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