scarlet-titan
Social rules can’t be taught in a logical way because they are at their core, illogical. Allistics are also known to just make up a social rule out of nowhere to benefit themselves in a situation over an autistic person. I’ve experienced this many times.
Example:
Me: That thing you said the other day really bothered me and I would like to talk about it.
Allistic: You should have brought it up at that exact moment. It’s the social rule, I won’t discuss it further. But I have a problem with something you said weeks ago.
That isn’t even hyperbole, I actually had that happen. They tried to enforce some “social rule” on me and then immediately broke that same rule in the same statement.
How exactly are we supposed to teach people how to navigate situations like this in a logical way?
lily-peet
The concept of a contradictory statement is not lost on people, though what to do when confronted with one can sometimes be harder to parse out. In this sort of situation we teach people that those with contradictory social rules that seemingly never apply to themselves are merely making excuses to avoid criticism while also making their own openings to dish it out in the same situation.
We call that a “Fuck you, got mine” attitude.
So you point out the immediate contradiction and refuse to allow it to continue. You say “If you’re going to immediately break your own rule, then I am not obligated to follow it. Now going back to what you said the other day…”
A rule that is stated and then immediately contradicted is invalid. The person in question will stomp their feet and resist. That doesn’t make them right, and it doesn’t make the skill bullshit because navigating this kind of persecution complex IS the skill. And you will never fully understand it, it’s a constant learning experience. Not just for neurodivergent people, but neurotypical people as well.
The number of neurotypical people I’ve met for whom “open your mouth and say something” is an alien concept is staggering. It doesn’t matter how many excuses they make or how much they dig in their heels and resist, it’s something they have to learn. And the same applies to you.
You’re acting like the concept of deception or general asshole-behavior is going to be lost on people. It won’t be. Struggling with social interaction and social cues is exactly that: Struggle. It’s not a completely alien language. It will only be so if you make excuses not to learn.
scarlet-titan
I’m acting like this because I was told by outside observers that I was in the wrong. I was told I should apologize to them and roll over to their whims. It didn’t matter that they broke the social rule they just made up, I as the autistic person, had to submit to them.
Also if you read my notes on this post, I point out how these social rules are never applied to allistics. If an autistic person expects an allistic to follow the social rules that were hounded into them they are derided as “snowflakes.” Remember that autistic boy who expected Pence to apologize after he accidentally hit him?
Like I said, you can’t teach the “social rules” because allistics make them up as they personally suit them. It is an “alien language” because you all keep changing it. You can’t expect any autistic to keep up. Why not just say what you mean instead of all this exhaustive bullshit? Plus in your last statement you sound a hell of a lot like those anti-vaxxers who try to get me to try their bullshit “autism cures.”
And why are you even replying to this now? This post is months old. I know you didn’t just find it since your friend, patchworkheart, had replied to it when it was new. I had completely forgot about this post.
lily-peet
I point out how these social rules are never applied to allistics.
Bullshit. This kind of behavior is found everywhere. These kind of persecution-complex riddled pustules behave this way with everybody. Make an expectation of behavior and then don’t follow through on it because they have an overwhelming “fuck you, got mine” attitude.
You respond by taking a far more aggressive stance against that bullshit.
Just because Pence refused to apologize doesn’t mean he changed the social rule. It means he’s a prick that deserves to be beaten with a shovel.
Like I said, you can’t teach the “social rules” because allistics make them up as they personally suit them.
Speaking of persecution complexes, you can continue the narrative that social rules are made up specifically so allistic people can lord over autistic people all you want, but it doesn’t make it any less ridiculous.
You CAN teach these things, and many autistic people learn it with relative ease. Most, actually. I have taught these things to autistic children. It’s not just about polite conversation, it’s also about recognizing when someone is not following social protocol and changing your own actions accordingly, be it aggression, sarcasm, or taking control of the conversation.
Plus in your last statement you sound a hell of a lot like those anti-vaxxers who try to get me to try their bullshit “autism cures.”
Fuck off. Bothering to teach someone a basic skill that can be easily picked up (many of whom do, you are the exception, not the rule) and not accepting excuses to not bother trying is not in any way equal to pushing bullshit about vaccinations, giving someone a bleach enema, or severely emotionally traumatizing a person to the point of post traumatic stress disorder.
If you cannot grasp the difference between lessons in social nuance and inserting bleach into the body, you are just a fucking awful excuse for human being regardless of any neurodivergence.
Your assertion that autistic people cannot grasp these basic skills, or worse are completely incapable of working out the concept of defensiveness and hypocrisy, or can’t grasp concepts like “that guy was bullshitting you”, even in spite of overwhelming results to the contrary, is quite frankly the most disgusting, offensive, and flat out bullshit lie I have ever heard someone claim about Autism directly to my face.
Because they do grasp it. They grasp it all the time. What you pretend is some kind of herculean task is so commonly understood that it’s practically mundane.
And as someone who has worked as a counselor I know how completely full of shit you are. I know that you are 1/500. You are a loud, but minuscule minority. You are not any way representative of the majority of people with autism, and you really need to stop throwing them under the bus to justify your persecution complex.
Grow the fuck up.