DB WORKSHOP: Tag discussion

@Exhumed Legume
 
Thought about that, but slogan is probably more well known and is already in use.

@cheezedoodle
 
Slogan doesn’t really mean the same thing, though, and is currently used in a manner different from the “old banner” tag.  
The single currently existing instance of the “motto” tag, however, is basically interchangeable with “old banner”.

What’s the difference between “snuggling” and “cuddling”?

@Exhumed Legume
 
According to wikipedia:
 
Slogan: a memorable motto or phrase used in a political, commercial, religious, and other context as a repetitive expression of an idea or purpose.
 
Motto: a phrase meant to formally summarize the general motivation or intention of a social group or organization. In informal ways, it can be a rule or slogan someone follows, or lives their life by.
 
It’s funny because they both use the other word to help define them. In common usage they’re basically interchangeable, although slogan sometimes has an advertising implication.
 
I really don’t have a preference. Both are preferable to old banner. The question is which will be easier for people to remember.

@Grieffon  
Well, based on dictionary definitions, cuddling implies hugging, which apparently isn’t necessary for snuggling.  
Haven’t looked into whether the tags are used technically accurately, though.
 
 
@cheezedoodle  
Since we’re throwing around definitions…

Not exactly the same.  
Slogan can be seen as a subtype of motto, sure. But it’s kind of loaded, carrying heavy connotations of advertising and/or political or other ideological agenda.  
It’s a matter of “If you can dream it, you can do it” or “It’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice” versus “It’s finger-lickin’ good!” or “Just do it.”  
^{Examples picked from Google image search, BTW.}
 
Besides, as I alluded earlier, we have precedents for either tag and – call me crazy, blind or both – it seems to me only one of them includes an example of “old banner” style use. And that one would be technically accurate to boot.  
… I guess it’s kind of obvious of which one I’m in favor :D

if there’s a depiction of an old banner, then there should be tagged ‘old banner’  
i don’t get why you guys are fussing about people being able to remember the tag, god knows i don’t know all the “titlestia” and “headlight sparkle” tags - and look how popular that is. thanks to the few people who kept tagging it, people learned it.
 
perhaps of interest, one word

noticed a couple of new tags, wreath (52) and flowers in hair (68)  
aside from olive wreaths, i’m not sure how the use of both tags don’t imply floral head wreath (226)

@Background Pony #B3BC  
Yeah I noticed some of them too. Forgot to mention it here. Also, flowers in hair and flower in hair are actually two different tags.

@paluzna  
Regarding the sinfully sexy tag, got a reply on it, screenshot of PM convo (posted with permission)  
I don’t mind on what we agree on, but if it stays I demand someone put those words into a description for me.

@Background Pony #B3BC  
well, DUH. its the Tag discussion thread, the idea its to improve the site’s tags.
 
one word should be nuked as well methinks. sounds like a REALY pointless tag.
 
@barbeque  
that sinfuly sexy thing sounds more like “explicit bedroom eyes” to me, kinda pointless, but whatever.
 
all the “flowers crown” thing should be allised into just ‘flowers on hair’ and leave “wreath” to the christmast thing.
 
by the by, whats the general tag-mod’s opinion on the boob names for chars? (titlestia, ballona, etc)  
i personaly dont like them, should just go whit “big breast” for simplicity.

@Background Pony #B3BC  
I love hearing that we have one word actually. Just the other day I was here fretting that I had no tag for a pic of scootaloo shouting “CMC!” You can’t use “letter” because it has a 2nd meaning in English and you’d get a bunch of Derpy pics. You can’t use “text” because it’s already being used for a load of other things. “one word” is the closest to a useful tag for these I have hear so far.
 
So no, pal(uzna), we’re not nuking it. (or any other tag unless it is really-relly obvous that they are 100% identical with another existing tag.)

@Vree  
On this note:
 
how about some sort of separation like this:  
words - couple of words on the pic or as part of the art  
text - more typically for walls of text (users making forum posts with images)
 
Sounds okay?

So no, pal(uzna), we’re not nuking it. (or any other tag unless it is really-relly obvous that they are 100% identical with another existing tag.)
 
That’s a laugh.

@Turnways_Flip  
shrug Explain.  
but  

@Vree  
Situation from a few days ago is still fresh in my mind, in which a tag I created for the sake of filtering images was, in fact, nuked and people (non-mods, mind you) were super-vehement about it.

@Turnways_Flip  
shrug I don’t think your campaigning for the “rape as justice” tag should be brought into this.
 
But, OK, I guess what I said wasn’t technically true.

I think actually this is exactly the place for it. I mean it literally could not be more “the place”. This is what the thread exists for. Either way, the word I’m getting from The Smiling Pony is that I do not actually need permission to create a tag, so I don’t have to “campaign” for anything. But, in the interest of fairness, and to make sure someone doesn’t delete it again, I’m trying to come up with a new name for it that people won’t think is insulting (even though how exactly do you insult a degrading concept I don’t know). How about rape as punishment?

@Turnways_Flip  
Well, that’s exactly what I made this thread for :D - but I doubt we can help you here. If you could not come to a consensus with those who objected to the tag in the pic’s thread, what else do you expect us to do?
 
As far as I can recall, it wasn’t the name they objected to so that isn’t the issue. Rather they said that it was a niche tag that was already plenty covered by other tags.  
I wasn’t sure myself what sort of meaning you had in mind. You do not seem to dislike rape enough to filter it - but apparently rape of a villain and/or rape as punshiment makes you upset? (rape of an undeserving innocent, though, does not?)
 
It would help tons if you could sell us on why this tag would be justified.  
Yes tags are wild and free, and in theory anyone is free to make new ones and does not need to justify it to anyone, but still they kinda tend to obey a number of unspoken assumptions, like  
1 tags are for everyone’s use (a “Vree’s favorite images” would get deleted)  
2 tags have a clear definition, beyond one’s own subjective feelings  
…etcetra etcetra ( I could add a bunch of other guidelines here but only this much matters for us).
 
If it was up to me I’d probably just let you have it, but it’s difficult to ignore when only one person wants a tag that like 3-4 others strongly oppose and the tag seems lo lack a clear rationale. Because tags are at the end of the day are still a matter of public consensus.

@Vree  
well, sure, if people find some use to it, let it stay.
 
and what if we go whit an alliasing of “one word/word/words” for 1-4 words, and “text” for 4 & beyond, for the sake of simplicity. just my 2 cents.
 
@Turnways_Flip  
rape as justice sounds like you are in the “pro” side of the rape in question lol  
“rape as punishment” sounds a bit more vage, it might work!
 
“how exactly do you insult a degrading concept”  
people that like that sort of thing dont see the concept as insulting, plus you’d have to get confirmation from the artist that it is in fact, what he wanted to depict. every time.

@paluzna  
I think the problem is that he himself might not be clear on what does and does not give him uncomfortable feelings. For example, if it’s forceful sex with a villainous character, does that mean that he can put it under a “rape as punishment” tag?
 
Like (probably) the others, I’m just confused in general that someone’d be okay with raping characters in general (‘cause, y’know, the “rape” tag already covers the fact that it is unwanted sex without any good intentions), but this kind of thing puts him off? just what definition of “rape” there is that his mind registers as still okay?

@paluzna  
I think we don’t have a need to set it at 4 exactly (why 4? why not 5? or 8?) but I think it could be helpful to consider that mouthpiece images (or “old banner”…whatever) are always one complete sentence. (eg. “Kill all men!” is included in this definition but not in yours, so I think approaching it like this is better.
 
I’d rather define text as several sentences, and words as not a full sentence. (What to use for the in between, I haven’t got a clue.)

@Vree  
i was going for ‘word/s’: a short sentence or less-than a sentence. and ‘text’: 1 sentence and above, hence the limited amount of words. and then have maybe ‘wall of text’ for walls of text.
 
i prefer your system though, and no, i havent got a clue as to what name the midle ground :/

You do not seem to dislike rape enough to filter it – but apparently rape of a villain and/or rape as punshiment makes you upset? rape of an undeserving innocent, though, does not?
 
That attitude is exactly what I want to filter; the suggestion that some people deserve to be raped. There is no “deserving” victim.
 
The reason rape by itself doesn’t bother me is the same reason there’s not much of an outcry against pictures including any kind of violence at all. It’s the same reason people watch horror movies. Yes, it’s a terrible act to commit, but as long as that is properly portrayed, I’m fine with it. It’s when you start sanctioning it, saying “it’s okay to do it in this case”, that it makes me sick to look at. Nor is it about who the victim is; one of the oldest instances of this being done is with Fluttershy. It’s just that “villain getting raped” is the most common way of presenting them as “deserving it”.
 
And the number of images that do that on this site came as a surprise to me. When I previously created the tag the first time around, and as noted found several dozen, I was only looking through the “rape” tag for instances of it. However, there are far more examples that fall under other tags instead - the one that set off this little incident had “imminent rape” and “public use”, but not “rape”.
 
Also, may I draw your attention to the tag “cool starry bra”. It’s been around forever and a half and has about six images. By its very nature it is almost totally inapplicable to normal pony pics. Why would we keep THAT around, but not something that’s actually worth filtering?

So you’re saying it’s only okay to rape someone if they’re a good person?

@Background Pony #66F9  
That is the exact opposite of anything I have said at any point. Pay attention.
 
I don’t care if the picture depicts rape.
 
But the picture should never advertise that rape is an okay thing to do to someone for any reason. The claim that you can justify raping someone because they’ve done things that you do not like is reprehensible.
 
In a slasher flick, you don’t sympathize with the supernatural psychopath chopping people up. A rape picture shouldn’t sympathize with the rapist. Ever. No exceptions.