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@Jarkes
 
Also before losing the chance to hit that spend time with Sunburst sent her off the deep end. Now the prospect just bums her out.

@gingerninja666  
it’s mostly because the default is her being beloved. it’s not until she does something reprehensible that they give her shit, it only lasts about as long as a fart in a hurricane, and she never needs to do anything to make it right. the same is applicable to all the main characters (except for children like spike and the cmc, oddly enough) but i hold starlight in scrutiny for it because the rest of the main characters aren’t former torture-happy dictators responsible for spreading mass death and suffering by manhandling time for revenge. you know the librarian, the baker, the weather pony, the farmer, the seamstress, and… fluttershy, are good at heart (albeit with some flaws) so it’s not such a big deal.
 
why that’s such an issue from a storytelling standpoint, to me at least, is it robs her story arc of any value or emotion. it doesn’t matter that she’s improved or when she makes mistakes because nothing’s at stake for her. even that wouldn’t be such an issue, except i feel outside of said story arc there’s very little meat to her character. outside of trixie she rarely gets interaction with others (and i have admitted said interaction is entertaining), there’s nothing particularly noteworthy or comedic about her, and all of her quirks and character traits revolve entirely around said story arc.
 
honestly? my reading of your reading of starlight is irrelevant outside of how you present it, which is always pleasant and thought-out. that’s what matters in a debate.

@PonyPon
 
They have prior history with Discord being a piece of shit too and they are willing to treat him well if he stops being a dick.
 
I think it’s one of those situations where they trust Twilight. Twi chose to take Starlight on as a pupil, and so they’re willing to give Star the benefit of the doubt as long as they buy she’s actually trying.

@Jarkes  

@gingerninja666  
Prior experience?

@PonyPon
 
edit: Sorry, didn’t see the edit.

Nah.

@DanielTepesKraus
 
I really would like to know where this idea that she is “universally beloved” comes from. Because I honestly can’t see it unless someone is only looking at that montage at the end of season 5. No Second Prances is about how she can’t make friends with people until she meets Trixie (Mrs Cake in particular gives her shit). She pisses off the Mane cast to the point where some of them scream at her and otherwise they are awkward around her. Pharynx thought she was a loser. Thorax calls her out on her shit. Ember confuses Starlight with Twilight. Luna threw her across the room with magic when she tried to calm down an argument. Starswirl was dismissive of her.
 
Actually I want to ask something honestly to you, because you’re one of the best and most enjoyable people on this site to debate Starlight with I find. What is your reading of MY reading of Starlight.

There’s still people using the Tyrantlestia meme in 2017?

@FrustrationInExcelsis  
From certain perspectives.

@Philweasel
 

 
I think I remember a couple of those incidents, but to me the ones that stick out the most is when Rainbow is the one who brings up how awful she was.
 
Like the time when Applejack got angry at her for it, which I honestly never understood. All other things aside, Starlight did objectively use to be a horrible person – what is pretending nothing bad ever happened supposed to accomplish?
 
@DanielTepesKraus
 

 
… they are?

@Philweasel  
that’s not much, though. having the socially insensitive one casually remark on it a couple times when otherwise being beloved by all and handed everything she could ever want isn’t exactly mistrust or a punishment. people say worse things to me on this site for calling celestia a tyrant or spike a slave. that’s kind of my issue with her “reformation”.
 
though, speaking of celestia (and she’s a hell of a lot more interesting than that mary sue starlight) i would love to know the circumstances behind luna’s 1000 year exile. either celestia tried to free her sooner or didn’t. if she did, what did she try and why didn’t it work, and if she didn’t why not? basically i would love to buy the whole “she’s a great benevolent leader” thing, as i’m sure that’s the writer’s intent, but they seem to have done tons to imply she’s at best laughably inept and at worse actually corrupt.

Image relevant.  

 
And with that, I must be to bed. I is tired, and have work tomorrow.

@DanielTepesKraus  

 
You do know she’s had two whole seasons of character development, and now is normally the one advising against using magic to solve your problems? You seem to only be talking about season 5 Starlight, which was a very long time ago.
 

 
Discord was, but Luna was only punished for it because Celestia lacked any option but ‘to the moon’. That’s a failure of power, not an intentional desire to punish.
 

 
Which happened in “No Second Prances”.
 

 
Pinkie seems intent on rubbing this in every chance she gets, she’s mentioned it three times at my counting.
 
…plus they generally only do this when Discord’s being an asshole, which is like all the time. When Starlight screws up, you bet she gets the Twilight ‘I’m disappointed in you’ speech.
 

 
Ugh, don’t remind me…
 
…as many people have pointed out, for Nightmare Night to be a thing and Luna to be so feared, there has to be a tiny bit more to it than that. Especially since Luna’s almost as bad as Starlight at bringing up the ‘did you know I used to be evil? True story!’.

@DanielTepesKraus
 
But if you know you’re a monster and have a strong emotional reaction trying to avoid a situation that lead to you doing monstrous things in the past, are you truly a complete monster?

Really though, Uncommon Bond shows just how far she’s come. Before, the mere thought of reuniting with Sunburst gave Starlight PTSD. Now she’s super-excited at the thought of seeing him.

@gingerninja666  
well, she is a complete monster who should never be entrusted with anything ever again. i mean, what happens when she decides to erase rainbow dash from the timeline for taking the last potato at dinner or something?
 
@Philweasel  
well yeah, they were condemned for it. difference is luna and discord were actually punished for it, and none of them were forgiven up front: luna was ostracized by the ponies when she first appeared, the mane six never missed a chance to remind discord that he wasn’t forgiven, and the entire school treated sunset as an outcast. that’s honestly part of the reason i had so much trouble swallowing starlight being rewarded for being a bitch instead. i’m actually surprised luna doesn’t hold a grudge against starlight, considering the extent of luna’s evildoing was a 45 minute slapfight with her sister and she got 1000 years on the moon for it.

@Philweasel  
She was even worse in EqG1, which took place almost directly after that finale. She can only stay in the air for a few seconds if even that.

@Background Pony #270E  
It’s not like it hasn’t been done before. Remember Twilight’s flyby after she got her wings, where as the next episode she can barely stay aloft?

@Background Pony #270E
 
It baffles me honestly. PEople take that montage as more gospel than full episodes that were actually made. It’s laser focused in on to the exclusion of everything else it feels like.

Starlight’s montage only makes sense if it was a condensed flash-forward, because in the next season (and even now) she’s nowhere near that friendly with the Mane Six.

@DanielTepesKraus  

 
The problem is, by saying that you’ve condemned Discord, Sunset, and probably Luna too. In fact they’re worse, as their actions weren’t nearly so specifically targeted, nor in response to real, intentional harm done to them.

@DanielTepesKraus
 
And that’s the thing. I thought season 6 and 7 were dedicated to showing that that montage wasn’t entirely accurate (like the season 3 finale wasn’t) and Star actually DOES have a lot to learn.
 
No Second Prances has her going from MAne 6 member to MAne 6 member, just like she did in that montage, and pissing all of them off one by one, with the end summation being that no, she’s actually kind of shit at making friends.
 
Then in TWABA, she has a breakdown in her old village and needs Trixie to drag her away, because she feels like she’s a complete monster who should never be entrusted with anything ever again.

@PonyPon  

 
Well… yeah? Have you seen any of her episodes? Starlight’s a genius when it comes to magic, but an absolute mess at everything else. She’s outright incapable of predicting the consequences of her actions, and it’s her biggest ongoing problem.
 
I find it funny how people kept saying that she should stop using magic all the time, but that was actually a bit of a red herring. “To Change a Changeling” showed how she can avoid using magic at all, and still be blindsided by a massive flaw in her ‘brilliant’ plan.
 
Like Twilight’s anxiety, Rarity’s drama, Fluttershy’s shyness, Dash’s… everything and Pinkie’s childishness, it’s her core character flaw and something I’m not thinking she’s overcoming any time soon.

@Josh103  
@Jarkes  
i’ve said it before, but even just manipulating time to destroy the life of one single person is already pretty horrific and unforgivable. even destroying the life of a single person via entirely mundane means is pretty unforgivable. her causing all that death and suffering and risking time itself without even realizing it (or caring all that much) just makes it worse.
 
@gingerninja666  
what it boils down to, to me at least, is if they’re going to make a character be that evil then they can’t just write it off in the montage and the “uh-oh spaghettios she said she was sorry” way they did, and if they want to reform a character in an “uh-oh spaghettios she said she was sorry” kind of way and a brief montage then they probably shouldn’t depict her as being any worse than diamond tiara or suri polomare was.