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Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 117

Background Pony #E4C2
@Background Pony #606D  
First one, understandable, especially this is volunteer work, but it doesnt take much to drop a single line and i can presume they are active enough in their discord server.
 
Second one, read the 3 replies directly under that.  
TLDR: They’re not sorry for whats happened, they’re sorry that everyone is mad at them.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 116

Background Pony #606D
@Barhandar
 
How are we better though?
 
Not many people can be good at wording their thoughts. I for one have big problems with it.
 
Also, I saw a lot of bad examples among the anti-censorship people around here (I’m from that same group, so I have the right to judge).
 
I’ve seen people acting in the same way as they accuse Dilarus and his supporters to be acting:
 
by not trying to see any reason in what is said to them, and simply blindly screaming about how bad the site staff is, how we’re all doomed, etc.
 
There are a lot of poorly handled things by all the sides. Let’s be fair here.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 115

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 114

Background Pony #606D
Not the supposed head of the site who can override TSP, that being Princess Celestia, but you, who is in the same position that Raptorshy was.
 
I think, he’s just being busy in real life.
 
He mentioned it in this comment
 
I think we all should be patient.
 
Perhaps, once he has enough free time to properly address the userbase, he’ll publish information that would explain and clarify everything.
 
The last i saw of Von-Luna was a screencap of a swiftly deleted post asking why they should apologise for any of this.
 
Maybe it just wasn’t worded well, and that’s why it was deleted.  
Here’s the new comment that makes it clear: HERE
 
I agree with what he says there. It’s a no win situation. So it’s better to move on to more important things at hand.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 113

Background Pony #606D
The logic of Dilarus and his supporters is really baffling.
 
Okay, here’s a thought experiment, just for the sake of argument:
 
In Dilarus’s eyes my opinion on the freedom of expression for all arts is an idiotic one, because, as he would say “the results of such actions make it possible for Nazi ideology to infect our community and spread”.
 
Then, by their logic, I’m being an idiot and thus my inaction allows more nazi things to spread in the world.
 
Okay. But how does all of that make me “a nazi sympathizer”?
 
I can be just an idiot who doesn’t agree with the fact that my fight for the freedom of expression results in more nazi ideology infecting people.
 
I can just have a wrong vision, because I’m a stupid, naive and ignorant person.
 
But my vision is:  
“I do NOT believe that what I stand for will result in more nazi spreading around.  
And I don’t sympathize any nazi or neo-nazi people or ideologies at all.”
 
Then what’s wrong in just calling me “an ignorant idiot that doesn’t understand the consequences of his actions”?
 
Why do they need to label me (or any other people like me) as “nazi sympathizers”?
 
Maybe, because they are able to catch and eliminate so few actual nazi people, that they are desperate to find pro-nazi people? Maybe, they simply want to boost their feeling of being important by eliminating people like me to prove their ideas to the world (but not actually having any real impact on actual nazi ideology spread)?
 
This is all really more than baffling…

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 112

ArmadilloEater

French Taunter
@Barhandar  
>4chan  
>neutral ground
 
Mate are you drunk? I was thinking more of a private chat somewhere, like a discord channel or something, where you can get reliable logs for accountability and let the two sides’ “representatives” explain their views. Of course it’s likely that it will all go tits up, or not even be possible to set up in the first place, but hey, it’s a nice thought.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 111

Barhandar
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(twi|pony)booru.org
@Princess Luna
The problem here is that the people who are willing to compromise have been talking things out with the mod staff with you as a spokesperson.
Not the supposed head of the site who can override TSP, that being Princess Celestia, but you, who is in the same position that Raptorshy was.
The last i saw of Von-Luna was a screencap of a swiftly deleted post asking why they should apologise for any of this.
And TSP, your boss and the overrall arbiter of all the decisions here, is proven to be talking to what can argubably be called the face of the “Change it all” crowd who wont accept anything less than complete capitulation to their demands which seem to getting ever stricter.
And he has still not said a single word to the community that’s willing to actually talk about these problems.
To be perfectly frank, it’s downright insulting to be asking us to be willing to negotiate when we’ve been doing nothing but this entire fucking time.
 
This.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 110

Barhandar
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
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Dream Come True! - Participated in the MLP 9th Anniversary Event
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Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
A Tale For The Ages - Celebrated MLP's 35th Anniversary and FiM's 8th Anniversary
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
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(twi|pony)booru.org
“But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols.”
 
@Patachu  
Everything is «problematic», so at this point let’s just ignore complaints.
Basically.
 
@ArmadilloEater  
Something like 4chan? Where who you are doesn’t matter, only what your arguments are?

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 109

Background Pony #E4C2
@Princess Luna  
The problem here is that the people who are willing to compromise have been talking things out with the mod staff with you as a spokesperson.  
Not the supposed head of the site who can override TSP, that being Princess Celestia, but you, who is in the same position that Raptorshy was.  
The last i saw of Von-Luna was a screencap of a swiftly deleted post asking why they should apologise for any of this.  
And TSP, your boss and the overrall arbiter of all the decisions here, is proven to be talking to what can argubably be called the face of the “Change it all” crowd who wont accept anything less than complete capitulation to their demands which seem to getting ever stricter.  
And he has still not said a single word to the community that’s willing to actually talk about these problems.
 
To be perfectly frank, it’s downright insulting to be asking us to be willing to negotiate when we’ve been doing nothing but this entire fucking time.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 108

Barhandar
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
The Magic of Friendship Grows - For helping others attend the 2020 Community Collab
Dream Come True! - Participated in the MLP 9th Anniversary Event
Toola Roola - For helping others attend the 2019 Community Collab
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
A Tale For The Ages - Celebrated MLP's 35th Anniversary and FiM's 8th Anniversary
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Helpful Owl - Drew someone's OC for the 2018 Community Collab

(twi|pony)booru.org
@Background Pony #71A6  
Name a single site with working hate speech policy.
 
@Patachu  
2023: Stop using hermaphordites and intersexed characters in porn that’s phobic
 
So the same thing that happened around 2015? ~hurr durr it’s not futa its trans what do you mean making trans characters solely for porn is fetishizing them it’s not fetishizing when we do it~

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 107

ArmadilloEater

French Taunter
@Barhandar  
Thing is, when sides are so polarized, a good discussion depends on the people you put around the table, and where you set up the table itself.
 
Twitter is an awful, awful medium for conversation, and I don’t think the Derpi forums are much better when drama is involved (threads getting derailed and mod locking and deleting etc). I dunno what Nebulon’s idea is when he talks about getting the two sides talking, but choosing something even resembling neutral ground is the first step, and maybe not having a whole horde of screechers from both sides intruding would help too.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 106

Princess Luna
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
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@Barhandar  
“In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise.”

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 105

Background Pony #71A6
@Background Pony #606D  
Honestly, staff consulting with sites that have working hate speech policies would be a terrific idea. The current mishmash policy of arguing how many swastikas can dance on the head of a pin before an image is considered offensive has become a complete farce.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 104

Patachu
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@Princess Luna  
That’s exactly what cancel culture is all about. Recently Twitter launched a fatwah against a youtuber (Astronogeek) because they decided to interpret one of his tweets as «encouraging supporting rape» despite they are consenting. then another where he discusses firearm ownership «he’s a dangerous armed fascist!» plus coming back all his debunks about the conspiracy theorists on the moon landings «He’s definitively anticommunist!»  
These people want to create enemies out of fucking nothing, and find something to fight.
 
But let’s keep with a critical approach, if a drawing have been there for 5 years or longer and never been «problematic» like they say, why is it becoming an issue today.
 
I think I said it earlier but DB is not the only site affected by this sudden turn of events and change of policies to gain positiveness and please the twitterlinas.  
You will give one thing, they will say “good” and later they will come for something else that’s suddenly problematic.
 
It’s all advertising, PR and nothing else.
 
2021: Inflation and macri is fatphobic  
2022: Celestia is problematic because princess is a monarchy thing that killed millions  
2023: Stop using hermaphordites and intersexed characters in porn that’s phobic  
2024: G4 in its entirety should be cancelled for all the classiism, Disney should change this  
and so on. They will never be satiate or never happy, it’s not about it, it’s a sport or a hobby for them and nothing else.
 
@Barhandar  
Everything is «problematic», so at this point let’s just ignore complaints.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 103

Barhandar
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
The Magic of Friendship Grows - For helping others attend the 2020 Community Collab
Dream Come True! - Participated in the MLP 9th Anniversary Event
Toola Roola - For helping others attend the 2019 Community Collab
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
A Tale For The Ages - Celebrated MLP's 35th Anniversary and FiM's 8th Anniversary
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Helpful Owl - Drew someone's OC for the 2018 Community Collab

(twi|pony)booru.org
@ArmadilloEater  
Yes, but we have.  
They could, and did, come here and talk, and the vast majority of deletions in those two threads were stuff like hurling insults, while their bigoted opinions were allowed to stay because that’s kinda the point of freedom of expression.  
Meanwhile anyone who’ve tried to discuss it on twitter, instead of pandering to dilarus’s ego or endorsing same opinions, was immediately blocked by them.
 
@Background Pony #606D  
Can’t you see that Dilarus and his followers have this mind set: NO compromises for nazi stuff. They keep screaming about it all the time.
And then foalcon stuff (ironically, given how a whole bunch of them either enjoy or do foalcon themselves, and how the “critical social justice” movement harbors pedophiles). And then it would be something else again. The list of “stuff you must delete before I come back to the site” would’ve grown until Derpi is completely barren, because it’s not about nazis or any other singular specific thing, it’s about bullying you into submission.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 102

Background Pony #606D
@Infinite Winter
 
Indeed.
 
 
@Princess Luna
 
Just like all people say here, the point is: Dilarus and his members showed it for multiple times that they don’t listen to reason, because they immediatelly say that a person who doesn’t think that ALL nazi pics should be gone from the site IS a nazi sympathizer or a nazi, and that they should NOT be listened to and only eliminated.
 
In other words, how are you gonna try negotiating with a person who won’t negotiate with you the moment he sees that you’re trying to compromise. They won’t see you as a reasonable person and won’t have any discussion with you the moment they see you’re not gonna eventually do everything the way they want.
 
Princess Luna
 
Can’t you see that Dilarus and his followers have this mind set: NO compromises for nazi stuff. They keep screaming about it all the time.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 101

Background Pony #D6FE
@Princess Luna  
You are correct in theory, that unwillingness to work together breeds more of these little conflicts. But at what point will it be clear Dilarius cannot be pleased? At what point are we allowed to say appeasement won’t work?
 
Dilarius has made it painfully clear he won’t rest until every single Nazi reference is removed from the site. He’s gone after artists, PUBLICLY, shaming them either into capitulation, or to publicly discredit their character. Hell he’s even made not-so-subtle threats at going after Derpibooru’s hosting and patreon services as well. I’m genuinely curious to know what your strategy to calm him down is? Seriously, in your mind, how does the situation play out? What permutation of events is there that will make Dilarius calm down and see he’s getting worked up over nothing?

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 100

ArmadilloEater

French Taunter
@Barhandar  
Even so, isn’t it a good idea to at least try to give an open hand invitation to talk? If the other party reacts violently, you won’t lose anything, but if you don’t try, you’ve lost the chance for a civil dialogue.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 99

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 98

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 97

Barhandar
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
The Magic of Friendship Grows - For helping others attend the 2020 Community Collab
Dream Come True! - Participated in the MLP 9th Anniversary Event
Toola Roola - For helping others attend the 2019 Community Collab
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
A Tale For The Ages - Celebrated MLP's 35th Anniversary and FiM's 8th Anniversary
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Helpful Owl - Drew someone's OC for the 2018 Community Collab

(twi|pony)booru.org
I believe actually it is the very resistance to working with others that breeds these little “wars” of politics to begin with. If you want to stop angry, you have to take away their anger, and that can only be done by showing them you’re willing to at least listen and talk, regardless of their demands.
Read up on what paradox of tolerance actually means, please.  
You cannot argue with someone who immediately goes to smash your face into the mud screaming “NAZI SCUM” the picosecond you defy them. There is a very big difference between “someone who is angry” and “someone who is a violent extremist”, and Dilarus is the latter.
 
Also, note that despite over a week of relatively peaceful discourse here, the only people who have been persuaded otherwise weren’t because of “not angry” or because we were “willing to listen and talk” - they’ve been persuaded because their own stuff has been targetted by the “anti-nazi” crowd, and they’ve lost friends over this.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 96

Princess Luna
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
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@Frosku  
Definitely missed. While some on staff would surely argue for keeping it, the one who deleted the second upload was one of the more permissive members of staff at the time.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 95

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 94

Princess Luna
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Thread Starter - Started a thread with over 100 pages
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Notoriously Divine Tagger - Consistently uploads images above and beyond the minimum tag requirements. And/or additionally, bringing over the original description from the source if the image has one. Does NOT apply to the uploader adding several to a dozen tags after originally uploading with minimum to bare tagging.
Cool Crow - "Caw!" An awesome tagger
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Magnificent Metadata Maniac - #1 Assistant
From the Night -

Senior Moderator
Site Developer
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@Barhandar  
I believe actually it is the very resistance to working with others that breeds these little “wars” of politics to begin with. If you want to stop angry, you have to take away their anger, and that can only be done by showing them you’re willing to at least listen and talk, regardless of their demands.
 
@Background Pony #6B65  
From an internal view, “things worked well enough” isn’t actually true; Rule 0 has been super inconsistently enforced, to the point one image of Aryanne shooting up a bunch of Zebras got uploaded once 5 years ago without any staff noticing, and a second time a day later deleted that day (and not by TSP, mind) for “Derpibooru is not /pol/” or something similar. I only found the deletion inconsistency 2 weeks ago.

Site and Policy » What's next in this Drama and What is happening behind the scenes? » Post 93

Background Pony #6B65
@Princess Luna  
When one side wants things to be as they always have been and the other demands change, compromise ceases to be compromise and becomes instead one stroke more toward death by a thousand cuts.  
And things very obviously worked well enough unto now, otherwise there wouldn’t be such a ruckus to do with the change in the first place.

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