Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

It never ceases to amaze me to see what stuff you guys are saying whenever I come by. Tehwatevr is apparently cool with post birth abortions and for once I sorta agree with you guys.
 
Lifes crazy like that sometimes.

@Jolliapplegirl  
I dont like post-birth whacking. Especially from a muslim perspective. If I was to propose the idea I’d get jumped by the entire masjid.
 
But since I’m NOT talking from a religious perspective NOR a moral perspective because, that’d mean going into moral ontology and whether or not they are universal, I go by the assumption that anything goes.
 
Consider: a lotta people dont want children for fear of letting them live in a horrible world.  
What about a kid who was just born two hours earlier? Is it too late for them to cancel?

@Ebalosus  

 
Having concluded some research into the SoCS all I can say that it’s hilariously benign all-in-all. At least when compared to what it was set up to be by Western popular press. But from think-tanks to professional diplo journals the conclusion is: it’s the world’s most buzz-worded corporate and intra-government regulatory body that even Beijing is committed to keeping within the realm to local government control. The later of course proving problematic in its own right because people like Merics point out this decentralization leads to its opaqueness and confusion since it’s often used as a cudgel by local management for whatever they want to do, there’s also an absolute minimum between cross-regional communication between SoCS hubs which are largely only in a handful of major cities (and even then participation on being “surveilled” by it turns out to be voluntarily, which I find fucking hilarious); often times there is no communications. Each SoCS region has its own standards even, though Beijing has been trying to even the playing field but it’s usually supplied by “guidelines” more than anything.
 
Did I mention how the supposedly high-tech credit system is basically only Excel spreadsheets and beurecrats bitching at each other on Discord, basically (technically: WeChat)? Because that’s all it is. And no one knows what a “credit score” is, while Beijing has not explained what it is or even decided what it is.

Love how right-wing grifters are trying to paint banning players from using hate speech in a game as a bad thing.
 
TOTALLY helping your cause there guys.

Watching the Netflix documentary about 9/11 and the war on terror.
 
Got to the part with the one line Congresswoman who voted no on the war powers resolution.
 
 
Her words turned out to be prophetic.

@tehwatever
 
Considering the subject is whether or not Abortion is bad, morals would have to be a part of it. If you use an ‘anything goes’ mentality, then yeah I guess it’d be fine but it’s also pointless if you think about it. It’d be like responding with a shrug. Yeah, it’s an answer but not really contributing anything.
 
As for the consideration, what right does the parent have to say ‘well, I don’t like the world so you, child with no means of choice, don’t get to live.’ Its entirely selfish and destructive to the social fabric of the world.

@Ciaran  
Most abortion laws stop at 24 weeks because the baby can survive at the point so idk how they calculate that(my country puts the breaks on at 16 weeks and stops fully except in cases of severe harm to the mother or defects at 24 weeks)  
That being said, it’s unlikely to be very much an issue mainly because most abortions take place before the 20th weeks and virtually every abortions that take place after that mark are because of severe defects or the mother is at harm like the baby fucking exploded or something, although it’s worth noting that most late term abortions are because mothers couldn’t get them earlier so, easier access to abortions would solve that  
I think it’s because parents become too attached even if something bad happens during that time of pregnancy. I really do wonder if motherly instincts grow throughout the nine months of pregnancy, definitely would explain a lot and not just about abortion

@Commune  
Ciaran pointed out that while a premature baby has a chance of survival past 24 weeks, inducing a premature birth before the 38th week is still fairly hazardous as the baby’s development isn’t properly finished yet, which increases the risk of long-term physical or mental health issues in its future life.

@Ereiam  
True
 
This is the reason why paternal healthcare and benefits needs to be way expanded than it is now(not talking about healthcare for all, just in general) so a mother doesn’t have to go through the harsh decision of aborting a baby with consciousness that they can’t afford
 
A general increase in wages won’t hurt the cause

Would that web host be like Cloudflare? If so No Script always shows when a site has Cloudflare scripts, and maybe it’ll show the new host for that abortion site.

@lonewolf
 
With the amount of fetish porn sites that run on CloudFlare, I feel that they wouldn’t want to host moral busybodies.

Hey does anyone remember that guy on this site that thought the planes that striked on 9/11 were holograms and it was a controlled detonation and then when I told him it made no sense he just responded “yeah that’s because the Government doesn’t care about making sense anymore!”

@Commune  
Sorry, I’m from a socialised medicine country. I could ask my sister, but I’m pretty sure that while she spent a ton on baby gear, the biggest expense for the pregnancy was likely either cravings-related or hospital parking.

@tehwatever  
It’s this sort of thinking that makes me just a bit sympathetic to the “no abortions at all” crowd - cause ultimately, any line drawn, even birth, will have a touch of subjectivity.

@Commune
 
Considering that 9/11 attracts the creeps who will talk nonsense about 9/11’s deaths for some conspiracy agenda, it’s no surprise.
 
Just like those reich-wingers who claimed that “those mass shootings were hoaxes”.

This is the part where moral ontology comes in. Does objective morality even exist? And also of moral epistemology. If it does then how do we know it? Who decides what’s moral, where and when. I agree with you, but morality is fickle as fuck especially in a setting with no external moral arbiter. Like here.
 
What you amrikans or the west consider moral, I ultimately dont have a clue.

You assume moral authority over the world. I’d like to see proof of authorization.
 
Look. I agree with you. I just know that you can’t back up a moral justification. Myself personally, I’m sunni muslim. If I was in a sunni muslim circle discussing abortion, ppl in the thread would normally work on the same moral framework.
 
But out here? You can’t do morals, because errbody have different compass. Some slightly, some majorly different.

@Jolliapplegirl  
As a bonus I’ll give you the muslim response to abortion.  
Here. A paper written by Omar Suleiman in 2017 on the subject.  
It’s written for lay-muslims so it’s assumed you know the very basics of islam.
 
Just read the intro and conclusion if you want the 3 minutes tl;dr. Spoiler alert: It’s basically saying “I’m Pro-Life, BUT”

9/11 again. 20 years go by so fast.
 
On this horrible day the world was introduced to the danger extremist Islam represents. I remember people in the middle east celebrating with cakes in the streets.
 
America has not been the same since the attack. Its wars have left scars and its confidence has waned, the entire nation’s foundation challenged from extremists from all sides.
 
Europe has suffered two decades of attacks. Thousands dead.
 
And we learned nothing.
 

@silbasa  
oh nobody forgot. Nobody. What follows consequently fuck innocent muslims the world over.
 
Obama Drones? Afghan War? Surveillance on Moslems? Guantanamo? Europe aint the only victim of the bullshit.
 
Two decades, a hundred thousand dead. Also I spent the entire two decades being judged and treated like a nigga cos I’m brown muslim immigrant.
 
So yeah. Aint nobody forgot, and it aint all about chu.
 
Condolences to the victims of the attack I’ve been blamed for by association, but I aint got much more than that, I’m sorry. I got my own pains from that bullshit.

@silbasa  
Dead Iraqi, Afghani and Pakistani civilians from US drone strikes:  

 
There have been more civilian casualties from drone strikes than there are casualties on 9/11

@Commune
 
Imagine if the US had reacted in a much more mature way. We wouldn’t have had to do 9/11 to other people every other day.
 
Though, then we’d lose this scene so it is quiet the trade off. /s
 
@tehwatever  

 
One million+ dead
 
 
Edit: oh hell yeah, wytp ep on the Pentagon

A mate of mine linked an excellent thread on twitter about the post-9/11 insanity that happened and that I by-and-large remember happening. Here’s some highlights (emphasis mine):
 
-People thought Osama had an entire mountain hollowed out that he was using as his base and that’s why AQ was hard to find and that somehow a group of like 30 dudes arranged this.
 

 
-The CIA rehabbed Gaddafi very very fast because they needed a win and by having Gaddafi hand us a bunch of old chemical weapons we probably gave him we looked like we were doing something.
 
-We found out that the president interviewed dozens of military experts to find one who wouldn’t be such a downer about invading Iraq.
 
The vetting process for people running the iraq war was based entirely on how optimistic they were. Several people, including die hard military hawks like Jim Webb, were ignored roundly because they accurately stated any war with Iraq would be a moronic boondoggle.
 
-Bill Maher was taken off air for saying the one smart thing he ever uttered:
 
“We have been the cowards, lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away…Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, [it’s] not cowardly.”
 
-The guy put in charge of Iraqs economy thought the answer to dealing with widespread hunger and deprivation was the free market. He created investment firms to try and get capital to factories in a literal war zone and then got confused why no one was investing.
 
He then gave some money to lots of iraqis as a begrudging welfare program, but he did it through single use credit cards.
 
90% of Iraqs phone lines were down and accordingly no one could process payments from the cards.
 
-The VP also shot a man in the face (and was rumored to be drunk out of his mind when he did it) and forced him to apologize for getting shot.
 
(I remember that being joked about a lot on early Youtube)
 
-Something like a third of all the white house appointees were graduates of unaccredited christian colleges and many of the HR issues that resulted from that nutty af atmosphere are still sealed.
 
(Bring this up when idiot liberals try to pretend that the Bush Whitehouse “was so much better organised” than the Trump Whitehouse)
 
-We ran the most expensive military exercise ever to show the world that the US could annihilate Iran. In the exercise the US military leader who role played Iran absolutely destroyed billions of dollars worth of military hardware and 20,000 troops.
 
The game was then shut off, relaunched, but with new rules that rigged the game to show that we’re number one.
 
Oh also, a major goal with Iraq was to take it over as a staging ground for Iran. Iraq wasn’t even the fucking entree.
 
-It turned out years later that the intelligence reports used by both the UK and US to invade Iraq were not only bogus, but many of them were sources literally just explaining a scene from the hit movie The Rock and pretending they were real.
 
-The largest international protest ever at that point was the protest against invading Iraq. The news pretended it was much much smaller than it was and said there couldn’t be that many unpatriotic Americans.
 
Chelsea Clinton counter protested it in England.
 
-This book which created the conspiracy theory that Iraq created 9/11. Somehow THIS never gets mentioned as a 9/11 conspiracy theory despite being the most consequential one of all.
 

 
-“Al Qaeda” turned out to basically be 20 guys, and not a whole army.
 
The videos Osama made, he literally had to hire extras for them because otherwise his operation would have looked so much less intimidating.
 
-On that note, the post 9/11 period rewarded everyone who was wrong pretty much across the board and punished everyone who dissented.
 
You kids wanna talk cancel culture? The worst cancel culture in modern American history was being antiOIF/OEF in the 00s.
 
(This absolutely infuriates me, because if more people had been willing to take an unpopular stand, we could’ve possibly avoided the worst excesses of the national security/surveillance state that we’re still living with)
 
-One of our foremost foreign policy experts argued we needed to fuck up muslim countries to take us seriously ie “suck on this”
 
For someone who bore witness to the second plane hitting the towers, and who knew in an instant that the world would be changed for the worse, I really do have to ask: Was everything we did in the aftermath really worth it? We have more terrorism and less security than we did before 9/11, and the freedoms sacrificed (not to mention all the lives wasted) seem very much to have been in vain.

@Ebalosus
 
Let’s not forget the widespread infiltration of anti-war movements or suspected anti-war groups by the Bush administration to do COINTELPRO against them. Anything from Quaker knitting circles to professional activist organizations won themselves a free CIA agent to spy on them and disrupt them so the Bush administration can ride the wave of war following 9/11.
 
We could have seen the War on Terror spread to the Caribbean as well because Cuba was also on the State Sponsor of terrorism and I remember hearing something about a Cuban-Hamas connection that had to be dealt with before Shia terrorism spreads to Florida.

@AaronMk  
I presume there have been leaks about this?

@Latecomer  

 
Try the Snowden and Manning. One or both of them blew the top off of military mismanagement and surveillance of US citizens during the post-9/11 period. Many things like the NSA’s warrantless wire-tapping of American citizens were continued well passed when they were said to be shutdown by the Obama admin no-less.
 
Edit - doing some supplementary scrounging around on FBI infiltration on anti-war groups
 
ACLU sues FBI for spying on them just for being anti-war, 2006
 
ACLU publishes documents detailing FBI infiltration of groups from the Quakers to student peace activists for anti-Iraq war activity, 2006
 
Supplementary PDF from Wired on the above ACLU findings.
 
If you were an active anti-war protestor in the mid-00’s or even the 10’s you could be in a terrorism database.
 
EDIT EDIT:
 
Guardian - ACLU denounces FBI for domestic anti-war spying on 2003.
 
And the NYT to couch things in less sus terms in 2003 like wishy washy cowards: FBI scrutinizes anti-war activity