The Anti-Nazi DNP Pledge

I haven’t caught up to the thread yet, but  
@Moonatik  
^^SO MUCH THIS

@CottonTales  
But what would count as “hateful” and a “harmful” ideology? Would it just be limited to those extremes? Or would they eventually extend it out to more mainstream ones such as the GOP? How far would it go? Like I said, it sets a precedence that general censorship is okay if it’s considered morally justified on behalf of the administrators and moderation.

@PeppermintSwirl  
That’s a slippery slope, it’s just a fallacy.

@Background Pony #C97A  
It’s more than “just a fallacy” if it’s a legitimate concern. What counts as hateful and harmful ideologies? In any case the slippery slope is more than just a fallacy. I mean, precedences have been set by the Supreme Court from which a single case ruling could affect the way a law or series of laws would be written, for example.

@Deserter  
They don’t even understand the one about “tolerance”. If they did, they’d realize Popper put forth debate as the main tool against “intolerance”, and that forcible suppression was only proper when the other side refused to debate with words and turned to violence (though even if they acknowledge that, they’ll likely just pretend the endgame has been reached to justify their acts anyways).

@PeppermintSwirl  
I was joking, first it was just evil nazis and now it’s all political stuff.

@PeppermintSwirl  
those things can actually be defined and because its vague you can always refute their claims of something being hateful or harmful. Vague rules are usually disputeable and they’re normally vague because people don’t know exactly what to put them as  
most politics aren’t even hateful or harmful in principle like a lot of politics is just ‘I disagree with how to achieve this goal but both of us want this same goal’ or ‘I don’t think we (the government) are the ones to decide that but you think we are’

@Background Pony #D4BD  
Exactly. But they haven’t even read it, they just use it as a bludgeon to sound educated.

Kind funny how everyone was fine with their art being on such a big bad evil meanie site with all this stuff before, it’s almost like people are whining about this just to have a reason to. People were unhappy about the censorship being /added/ because it was not there before (hence changing the standard of the site), why would you suddenly be unhappy about it being like it was before? Seems kinda silly to me :^)

@LemonDrop  
Being silly is a tradition.

@wootmasterflex  
Go for it

@LemonDrop  

 
Probably because it’s what’s “popular” right now, or maybe it’s just virtue signaling. It might be just something they can argue about so they can feel good about themselves being on the “correct” side.

@Background Pony #996C  
Course it is virtue signaling, that’s kinda what all these SJW-ey movements are built on. There are legitimate concerns buried deep within the things they say but for the most part they just take it to an extreme to try and be more righteous than everyone else to feel superior in some way.

Free speech absolutest here.
 
It’s simple, if someone says something dumb, you let them :) then you combat them with a sound argument. if the facts and evidence are on your side, you still may not convince your opponent, however you have the chance to change the mind and bring onlookers to your side.
 
By silencing speech, expression, or just people you do not like from any platform, you become the authoritarian. All anyone watching will see is that you silenced someone, shut down the discussion, this is not how you change minds. It also suggests that the one silencing the other, may not have facts and evidence on their side, because if they did they should have no reason to silence the speech.
 
And remember, not all things always black and white, good and bad, left or right. You may think you got your ducks in a row, but you have to be prepared to lose an argument as well, and when you do loose one, you need to be prepared to adjust your views on the subject. there is to much stubbornness around now days.
 
And consider what happens to this person when you silence them. They move to another platform, where they can speak freely among others whom have also been silenced. they become part of the underground echo chamber where their misinformation, or bad opinions grow and evolve, unchallenged by anyone else. The more the left censors and moves further left, the more regular people will end up in these places and become indoctrinated. and eventually the pendulum swings to the other side.
 
TL;DR best weapon against hate speech is more speech.

@LemonDrop  
And once they’ve convinced themselves of their superiority, it’s easy to justify any action taken against the inferior wrongthinkers.
 
Hmm, this is reminding me of something, but I can’t quite put my finger on it…

@LemonDrop  
Ah let me see if I get this cause I see this a lot
 
I think people are upset because things can’t just go back to normal as if what happened before happened in a vaccuum.
 
If you’re given a new free car for a while then they take that car away you’re upset, you didn’t actually lose anything but you did lose something you’d thought you’d keep.
 
They’re upset about the reversed decision because the decision was a good thing to them that was taken away and thats about it
 
 
IF the decision was never made they wouldn’t be upset by things being like they were a week ago. Like if the site started off with censorships then they took those censorships away for a while THEN just added them back in

@Dataanti  
Yeah this is indeed what this kind of rash action causes. These people really have a childlike “if I can’t see Nazis then they don’t exist” mentality when really by banning them from all large sites they are just creating further divides as people aren’t communicating anymore. You will never ever be able to censor these people fully as plenty of decentralized things exist that fundamentally do no discriminate at all and are impossible to regulate and people just move to those places because they are the only things that will actually let them speak.
 
This is also why sites like 4chan have their own political bias I think, all these big sites like Twitter and etc that follow the modern political memery are just forcing the opposition onto sites like that which don’t care. So yeah if you truly dislike Nazism as an ideology you should be able to confront it and debate it if you wish to or just let people do their thing, moving to them to another place free of any contradictory thought is just not going to help nor is DNPing all your art and retreating to Twitter to be in your own echochamber for similar reasons.

@FallenGuardian  
I mean the biggest problem is a lack of the ability for the community to manage tags, as well as tag suggestions, and the lack of a blacklist.

@GyroTech  
uhm.. yea, have you ever heard of the filter feature before?  
and If people are getting upset just from seeing something, as ridiculous as that sounds, just add the tag to your filter. That’s the way it’s been for the entire history of Derpibooru. (and other image hosting sites)
 
As for all the chaos i’ve been watching for the past few days now, this whole debate is getting stupid. It’s not political, it’s not righteous, it’s not revolutionary, it’s unnecessary change. If there never was a presented rule change, none of this would have happened. But had people not reacted so viciously, we wouldn’t have this little mess going on here. Lots of people on “both sides” are to blame, and I think it should stop here.  
If you’re an artist and sent a DNP request to Derpibooru, pff, more power to ya i guess, though you may not like the drop in popularity.

I’ll say what I (kind of) said in the fast moving thread that was meant to clarify the rule change. I think we could all benefit from taking a moment to breathe. This whole thing has been stressful on everyone, and a thousand people yelling at each other and the moderators and administrators is not going to result in good decisions at all. And the latest on the matter is kind of positive, in a way.  

I mean, look, I don’t think people here want the site to die. I know I don’t, not with everything else in 2020 having become so terrible. I think we could just take a moment to see what comes out of this, and let cooler heads prevail, for a moment or two at least.

Just submitted my DNP. I haven’t posted in here in a while but that doesn’t mean I want my older art (and whatever future art I would bother to post) to be associated with a site run by cowards who sided with neo-nazis. No fucking thank you.

@PixelGrip94  
they’re pixels dude and you can filter them calm the fuck down and think logically for a second

@PixelGrip94  
They went back on it already and now everyone is shitposting  
https://derpibooru.org/forums/meta/topics/an-announcement-from-derpibooru-s-staff?post_id=4845751#post_4845751

@PixelGrip94  

 
“Sided with neo-nazis”  
THERE NEVER WERE ANY ACTUAL NAZIS. *in this debacle - edit  
But hey, all depictions of all extreme ideologies are now banned. No more politics. Stop being stupid, dammit.

@PixelGrip94  
Cool, so you didnt even read what i had just wrote.  
And you know making art of aryanne is just a joke, right? A lot of the images of her are not supporting nazis, and simply allowing people to post what they want does not mean that you support the idea. (even though, like i said, it’s not to be taken seriously, it’s usually a joke.) Going by that logic, that would mean that Derpibooru supports pedophilia too because they allow foalcon to be posted! Which is not the case, they don’t support pedophilia.  
The images are not killing anyone, nazis aren’t going to come back just because someone let an image of her stand in the recesses of their large database.